Community Ensure the Warriors of Diversity will live on in Eternity

[EG]

DU you're being deliberately obtuse here. 'Professionalism' doesn't imply being favourable to every single game. It does, however, imply these things:

- In issues where you're acting in an 'official' capacity, such as organizing a fundraiser, conducting an interview or such, any opinion you express should be as close to the average Codex opinion as possible. Clearly, a fundraiser for Bethesda or an interview with Gaider could well contain the occasional vicious attack, but as it stands, regarding Project Eternity, the Codex is ambivalent at worst. Since your personal opinion is so far from the consensus, you ought to have refrained from expressing it so clearly.

- Even in matters where subjectivity is appropriate, it should be a basic principle that similar things should be treated in similar ways.

Someone envisioning the RPGCodex as a political organization. I never thought this day would come! I guess this is what comes with a separate forum dedicated to God and Politics . . .

I can't see a single damn reason why Wasteland 2 should get such an enthusiastic fundraiser post, whereas Project: Eternity should be treated with derision.

Wasteland was here first and has been hiding within its own shadow since.

Project Eternity is just an even vaguer notion of a possible future that may or may not be; how many games can you donate to then wait to see if they progress beyond imagination without going insane?

 

[Data4]

Too bad it's not the other $5000 tier with the Name Your Own Inn option. I wouldn't mind pounding ales in the Monocled Parrot after a long day of tasteful rape and pillaging.

 

[Commissar Draco]

DU hase caused so much delicious here... If you think this fundraiser is worth your jewgold donate, DU is not your Dady or Boss so his opinion doesn't count, unless you're not sure yourself... in which case Server fundraiser would be good alternative, as Codex is crashing like an old used up harlot lately.

 

[Humppaleka]

I have to ask as a poor student, do you get the game if you donate 25$? Because if you don't I'll skip this and go for the KS campaign directly.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

I have to ask as a poor student, do you get the game if you donate 25$?

If you donate to the Codex, nope. I'm not bothering with all the "who gets what" BS that comes out of these KickStarter projects anymore, and all the people who will only donate if they get X or Y or are in the top 5 or whatever. I did that once, not again.

It's why I'm actually a bit surprised at the $5k "community" option being a party of NPCs. What people really want is to donate their $25 to their community site and get a copy of the game and something small for the community. The best "community" KickStarter reward would be something like "150 digital copies of the game and a statue" or headstone or item or something. So the community gets a mention in the game and the individuals who donated also get a copy of the game.

 

[Infinitron]

I have to ask as a poor student, do you get the game if you donate 25$? Because if you don't I'll skip this and go for the KS campaign directly.

Ask around. Somebody may have a spare copy for you.

 

[villain of the story]

Vince is wondering what happened to that sweet Steam engine that looked so appealing in ToEE and handled so much in Arcanum. Vince is also curious what happened to Troika’s "super fantastic extra cool ultimate 3d RPG engine". Since Tim Cain is there now, it's easy to assume that both engines, with all the bells and whistles, are there as well.

Perhaps, that's why they don't need to use Onyx after all. If, however, they were to announce that they are going with Unity, my faith in the project will drop significantly.

Your faith in the project would drop significantly because they would opt to go for an up-to-date engine with remarkable knowledge base, a very active community, plenty of working examples of diverse engine functionalities and developer support over some vague "3D RPG engine" that hasn't shipped a single title to date nor has a pool of knowledge and experience to get support from?

Your priorities sound confused.

 

[Infinitron]

Vince is wondering what happened to that sweet Steam engine that looked so appealing in ToEE and handled so much in Arcanum. Vince is also curious what happened to Troika’s "super fantastic extra cool ultimate 3d RPG engine". Since Tim Cain is there now, it's easy to assume that both engines, with all the bells and whistles, are there as well.

Perhaps, that's why they don't need to use Onyx after all. If, however, they were to announce that they are going with Unity, my faith in the project will drop significantly.

Your faith in the project would drop significantly because they would opt to go for an up-to-date engine with remarkable knowledge base, a very active community, plenty of working examples of diverse engine functionalities and developer support over some vague "3D RPG engine" that hasn't shipped a single title to date nor a pool of knowledge and experience to get support from?

Your priorities sound confused.

But...but...TIM CAIN!!!

 

[Lumpy]

Someone envisioning the RPGCodex as a political organization. I never thought this day would come! I guess this is what comes with a separate forum dedicated to God and Politics . . .

Of course it's not a political organization, but 'Whatever DU says goes' isn't all that great either is it?

 

[Tolknaz]

I only took part of the statue fundraiser for Wasteland 2, because there was a solid concept of what exactly it's going to be. Right now we know nothing about the adventuring party thing, so i'll rather pledge more directly than chip in. Once there is something more solid in place, i might reconsider. Oh, and like many others i'll not donate to appease the egos of individual posters. Archetypes or the highway, baby!

PS: Who hid DU-s snark pills again?

 

[EG]

Someone envisioning the RPGCodex as a political organization. I never thought this day would come! I guess this is what comes with a separate forum dedicated to God and Politics . . .

Of course it's not a political organization, but 'Whatever DU says goes' isn't all that great either is it?

It seems to be working so far.

Let's wait for him to do something really stupid before we decide to depose him (perhaps Vault Dewller will take the position!), eh? A few butthurt, bitter comments don't count -- they're the norm, and have been since NMA made me aware of this cesspool in 2006. Don't ask for polite discourse now, Elder.

 

[Black]

Maybe it'd be better for the game if warriors of diversity stay here, on the codex.

 

[villain of the story]

DU you're being deliberately obtuse here. 'Professionalism' doesn't imply being favourable to every single game. It does, however, imply these things:

- In issues where you're acting in an 'official' capacity, such as organizing a fundraiser, conducting an interview or such, any opinion you express should be as close to the average Codex opinion as possible. Clearly, a fundraiser for Bethesda or an interview with Gaider could well contain the occasional vicious attack, but as it stands, regarding Project Eternity, the Codex is ambivalent at worst. Since your personal opinion is so far from the consensus, you ought to have refrained from expressing it so clearly.

AHEM.

44 people voted "FUCK THIS SHIT NO" vs. 60 who claim to donate some amount. Yeah, that's some quality fucking consensus right there.

Stop being retarded carebears who are overly concerned with this non-existing mythical "Codexian consensus". It's for retarded illiterate outsiders to use to slander Codex. We are a diverse community without a single representative voice where anything goes and that is why this place is beautiful. Even The Brazilian Slaughter knows this.

Incidentally, I think this whole Kickstarter donation thing is just plain silly, but if the Codex did it for Wasteland 2, I can't see why it shouldn't be done properly for Project Eternity simply because DU happens to be more interested in one than in the other.

Oh you mean it's not being done properly when DU is making a personal effort to make this happen even though he disagrees with it?

I think RPGWatch might be a better, more welcoming place for that kind of attitude.

 

[Roguey]

Isn't this project based on what Black Hound would've been? That's why they have so much info already, and probably more they haven't released yet? They just might need to develop their own character and combat system if they want to move away from DnD and make something that works with RTwP combat better?

Interplay owns the IP of The Black Hound, so they are probably doing a re-write of some of the basics of The Black Hound (It starts out the exact same way) and is now in an entirely different world.

So why all the hate and skepticism? Why is everyone acting like they don't know what it will be about?

As with NV and VB, any similarities to TBH will probably be superficial at best. The reason we have so much info now is because Sawyer's been working on this full-time for the past six months (he was put on it immediately after North Carolina was canceled).

 

[Infinitron]

The reason we have so much info now is because Sawyer's been working on this full-time for the past six months (he was put on it immediately after North Carolina was canceled).

Roguey! Always provide source links to back up your developer stalking.

How do you know this?

 

[TheEntitledOne]

Err, didn't Sawyer said that the map was inspired by that of the Dalelands, which happens to be the setting for the Black Hound?

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Someone envisioning the RPGCodex as a political organization. I never thought this day would come! I guess this is what comes with a separate forum dedicated to God and Politics . . .

Of course it's not a political organization, but 'Whatever DU says goes' isn't all that great either is it?

Why? I don't have a problem with it¹.

¹I'm willing to admit that I may have a biased perspective on this particular matter.

 

[Roguey]

The reason we have so much info now is because Sawyer's been working on this full-time for the past six months (he was put on it immediately after North Carolina was canceled).

Roguey! Always provide source links to back up your developer stalking.

How do you know this?

Reasonable assumption, what else would he be possibly be doing?
Also days after NC was canceled Adam Brennecke updated his linkedin profile saying he was the project director of a new unannounced project. And now we know he's the producer of Eternity.

 

[Infinitron]

Reasonable assumption, what else would he be possibly be doing?

Assisting with South Park? Assisting with some other project we don't know about?

 

[Roguey]

Reasonable assumption, what else would he be possibly be doing?

Assisting with South Park? Assisting with some other project we don't know about?

He's never worked on South Park and other projects don't make sense considering how quickly they made Brennecke the producer. What good's a producer without anything else? Their big expensive next-gen thing failed so the Kickstarter idea was suddenly able to get priority.

 

[Lumpy]

Villain, you're such a shit poster it's not even funny. Particularly the 'Brazilian Slaughter' thing. It's not funny.

AHEM.

44 people voted "FUCK THIS SHIT NO" vs. 60 who claim to donate some amount. Yeah, that's some quality fucking consensus right there.

Really? You make a poll, set the only 'no' option to be 'FUCK THIS SHIT NO', and then pretend 40% of voters actually meant to say 'Fuck this shit'?

Not that I'm taking the poll to be genuinely representative, but if it were, a 60% intention to vote would be huge. You could probably only get similar rates for eradicating malaria or curing AIDS or something. It'd be more that reasonable to take "This is as worthy a project as any" as the consensus, with a majority of those voting no simply not having the money/not being interested in Kickstarters/donating to genuine charities etc.

I'm willing to bet that a similar poll for Wasteland wouldn't have returned a much higher intention to pledge.

Stop being retarded carebears who are overly concerned with this non-existing mythical "Codexian consensus". It's for retarded illiterate outsiders to use to slander Codex. We are a diverse community without a single representative voice where anything goes and that is why this place is beautiful.

Of course we are. Also, there's a good number of things that we mostly agree with: Bethesda is shit, Bioware is kinda crappy though some games may be decent, Obsidian is fairly decent though some games are shitty, Thief is a great game and anyone who disagrees is a degenerate, and so forth. Or, at any rate, this is the 'median' opinion. Straying too far in an official post is rather distasteful.

Oh you mean it's not being done properly when DU is making a personal effort to make this happen even though he disagrees with it?

No, he's making a personal effort to do a half-assed job with this thing, ensuring that people donate some sum that is insufficient for the reward making the whole thing utterly pointless. Really, it wouldn't have taken some superhuman effort to write a dry "Here's a fundraiser. Decide whether it's worthy and donate, or don't, I don't care.", but it would've been superior to what we have now.

 

[Rivmusique]

If you think this fundraiser is worth your jewgold donate, DU is not your Dady or Boss so his opinion doesn't count, unless you're not sure yourself

Pretty much my thoughts on the matter. The only reason I can see for people to be mad about this is that they believe DU's post will discourage some potential backers. But I am pretty sure no one here changes their thoughts and opinions based on DU (or any other poster).

 

[Infinitron]

Bethesda is shit, Bioware is kinda crappy though some games may be decent

I was under the impression that this had kind of reversed itself in the past year or so.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Your faith in the project would drop significantly because they would opt to go for an up-to-date engine with remarkable knowledge base, a very active community, plenty of working examples of diverse engine functionalities and developer support over some vague "3D RPG engine" that hasn't shipped a single title to date nor has a pool of knowledge and experience to get support from?

Your priorities sound confused.

I've explained many times that it's not about Unity itself. By all accounts, it's a fine engine. It's about a simple fact that there is a huge difference between an RPG-ready engine, such as the Arcanum/ToEE engine, for example, and a generic game engine.

The former makes developing a brand new game in 18 months possible. The latter casts some serious doubt and raises the possibility of PE ending up being buggy and unfinished.

As for:

...an up-to-date engine with remarkable knowledge base...

It's an Infinity Engine-like game that promises to let you party like it's 1998. First, how up-to-date is the engine supposed to be to pull it off? Second, does ToEE look horribly outdated and unplayable today?

...a very active community...

True. Cheap models won't make themselves.

...plenty of working examples of diverse engine functionalities...

Unlike the Steam engine, which was a one-trick pony.

...and developer support...

Are you saying that it's better to have a third-party engine with developer support (which means nothing, just like it did with Lith-tech) than a proven engine plus an experienced programmer who wrote that engine?

 

[villain of the story]

Proven engine? Proven where? Up-to-date vs. outdated angle is related to the fact that hardware moves on and standards change. Though I have no idea what the average configuration of the backers or PE is, I doubt any substantial amount of them still use W98/XP running Pentiums or the early dual-cores after Pentium -whatever they were called- so the point that an engine is up-to-date is about hardware compatibility, optimum performance and hardware bound bugs, not whether it "looks" "outdated" by some arbitrary graphical standards. You can't run IE games on Vista, W7 or W8 platforms without problems or without use of third party tools therefore Infinity Engine is outdated. Whatever TIM CAIN-WINWINWIN!!'s super duper RPG Engine is or was -a development paltform that hasn't been used in a decade and god knows if someone somewhere still even keeps a documentation base to familiarise Obsidian developers with it- I doubt it would be more up-to-date then Obsidian's own Onyx engine which they used in Dungeon Siege 3 quite very decently -their most solid title to date in terms of hardware compatibility, performance and bugs, in fact-. So, if they are choosing Unity despite these, I trust it's for reasons that is far more favourable to Onyx, let alone a decade old engine collecting dust and I trust they know what they are doing from development side of it though I don't have the slightest confidence in their managerial abilities.