Community Ensure the Warriors of Diversity will live on in Eternity

[EG]

No clue. Maybe Unity IS that good. Maybe they don't have the Troika's engines. Maybe they felt that Troika's tech is too outdated. Maybe they're planning to share tech with InXile and work together, which might shorten the development time.

In the end though, I doubt that they can do a brand new game on a brand new engine in 18 months.

That actually brings up an interesting point that Fargo mentioned during his keynote thingy majig. He said one of the reasons for choosing Unity was the ability to share and redistribute assets between projects, companies, well really anything. He likened using Unity to being like a movie studio using the same lots and backdrops in different lights and styles for vastly different projects. Fargo and Obsidian sharing assets and tech seems extremely likely.

Aside from the whole "copyright law" thing, what prevented them from keeping/sharing their assets in the past?

 

[Semper]

Aside from the whole "copyright law" thing, what prevented them from keeping/sharing their assets in the past?

different engine means different asset pipeline, like animation file types, texture channels, normal map type, asset file type etc. now they could simply swap those assets in and out.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Somehow, it's appropriate for a fundraiser about the Warriors of Diversity to generate some drama.

 

[Krash]

Can't recall something on the codex ever not generating drama.

 

[HanoverF]

I would donate to this if it was to make Josh get a Codex tramp stamp.

 

[mindx2]

With DU's attitude does this mean we will get even fewer donation total updates than during the W2 fundraiser?

 

[tuluse]

Fargo's been very uncommunicative. Considering that he promised to run everything by the community, it's kind of strange, but whatever. It's not about Fargo. So, what has been revealed by Obsidian:

- party size, set formations, ability to add custom ones, temporary party members
- character system that we allegedly know dick about: class-based, has races and sub-races, has stats, traits, skills, and talents.
- companions: tied to the conflict, can open new plot branches, create conflicts; also one per class.
- races: traditional and non-traditional (godlike and 'odd' ); different physiological factors play a role
- souls play a role - a lot of fairly detailed info that makes it easy to see how souls are integrated into the setting, the story, and gameplay.
- technology vs magic angle explained
- main quest explained
- next update: promised to talk about non-combat skills and classes.

I consider that a lot, but maybe it's just me.

Here's what's been revealed about Wasteland 2:
- party size: 4 PCs, and a party size up to 7
- companions: they're going to have their own agendas, might steal from you, and do other things you don't like
- cults: they're going to be in the game
- water storage and carry capacity will be a big part of exploring the wasteland
- it takes place in Arizona and California
- We also know almost all of the backstory, since it's the backstory of the Earth, and the vision document does a good job filling in from 1988 to present day

It's hard to say we really know more about PE. It looks like we know about the same amount to me. Of course PE has been announced 5 days ago, while Wasteland was months ago.l

 

[Mortmal]

I understand your scepticism towards this project, but is damn depressing. The development time is indeed short, very short, we arent speaking of a mod of an existing game. Its the same for wasteland 2,exactly the same , maybe i spoke to soon of a new golden era of rpgs, its more likely all of this will sucks.Still i dont need to have my poor little hope in playing a good rpg again crushed. We will get a rushed, unfinished, bugged unsatisfying game, or it may be a scam.
Next time, its better if its bee doing the fundraiser thingie,less depression and suicides amongst codexers,listen to your heart du, dead codexers, means less ads money.....

 

[tuluse]

Well didn't Fargo say that when working for a publisher, up to 1/3 of their time was spent not actually working on the game?

My unbridled enthusiasm will not be tempered

 

[Crooked Bee]

UPDATE: Chris Avellone will draw personal troll avatars/pictures for those who contribute >= $250 to the cause:

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...most-generous-codex-fundraiser-backers.76276/

 

[Vault Dweller]

Here's what's been revealed about Wasteland 2:
- party size: 4 PCs, and a party size up to 7
- companions: they're going to have their own agendas, might steal from you, and do other things you don't like
- cults: they're going to be in the game
- water storage and carry capacity will be a big part of exploring the wasteland
- it takes place in Arizona and California
- We also know almost all of the backstory, since it's the backstory of the Earth, and the vision document does a good job filling in from 1988 to present day

It's hard to say we really know more about PE. It looks like we know about the same amount to me. Of course PE has been announced 5 days ago, while Wasteland was months ago.l

A lot of info on that list is fairly generic. Like "cults: they are in the game!". So are factions in PE and I didn't list them. Where the game takes place is irrelevant as far as game mechanics are concerned. It would play exactly the same if it was set in Texas. The backstory is irrelevant too as it doesn't make a game. So, when it comes to the actual mechanics, all we know is (from your list):

- party size: 4 PCs, and a party size up to 7
- companions will have agendas and do things you don't like
- water plays an unspecified role

vs

- party size, set formations, ability to add custom ones, temporary party members
- character system that we allegedly know dick about: class-based, has races and sub-races, has stats, traits, skills, and talents.
- companions: tied to the conflict, can open new plot branches, create conflicts; also one per class.
- races: traditional and non-traditional (godlike and 'odd' ); different physiological factors play a role
- souls play a role - a lot of fairly detailed info that makes it easy to see how souls are integrated into the setting, the story, and gameplay.
- technology vs magic angle explained
- main quest explained
- next update: promised to talk about non-combat skills and classes.

Granted, we know a bit more about WL2 than what you posted, but we did learn more about PE in a few days than we learned about WL2 in 6 months.

Well didn't Fargo say that when working for a publisher, up to 1/3 of their time was spent not actually working on the game?

Fargo said a lot of things. Some of them may even be true.

 

[tuluse]

A lot of info on that list is fairly generic. Like "cults: they are in the game!". So are factions in PE and I didn't list them. Where the game takes place is irrelevant as far as game mechanics are concerned. It would play exactly the same if it was set in Texas. The backstory is irrelevant too as it doesn't make a game. So, when it comes to the actual mechanics, all we know is (from your list):

- party size: 4 PCs, and a party size up to 7
- companions will have agendas and do things you don't like
- water plays an unspecified role

vs

- party size, set formations, ability to add custom ones, temporary party members
- character system that we allegedly know dick about: class-based, has races and sub-races, has stats, traits, skills, and talents.
- companions: tied to the conflict, can open new plot branches, create conflicts; also one per class.
- races: traditional and non-traditional (godlike and 'odd' ); different physiological factors play a role
- souls play a role - a lot of fairly detailed info that makes it easy to see how souls are integrated into the setting, the story, and gameplay.
- technology vs magic angle explained
- main quest explained
- next update: promised to talk about non-combat skills and classes.

Granted, we know a bit more about WL2 than what you posted, but we did learn more about PE in a few days than we learned about WL2 in 6 months.

Well didn't Fargo say that when working for a publisher, up to 1/3 of their time was spent not actually working on the game?

Fargo said a lot of things. Some of them may even be true.

Some of that stuff is pointless or incredibly vague that you're listing for PE. Like the races. Only Elves and Dwarves have been confirmed, the fact that there are other races is not really helpful, and Elves and Dwarves are expect. I might as well list that in Wasteland there will be radiation.

There was a forum post that made water pretty clear. One of the devs said that you will need enough water to cross the wasteland, and you might want to split your party and send the faster guys ahead as scouts.

Which brings me to another thing confirmed in Wasteland: you can split your party. Which seems a lot more interesting than "formations" in PE.

Then you list the fact that the character system will have "stats". I mean really?

"- technology vs magic angle explained". The fact that guns penetrate mage shield is not exactly the same thing as tech vs magic.

"- main quest explained". Which reminds me, in Wasteland 2 we know we are going to be setting up a forward operating base, and we know the Guardians will be there. Which gives us two factions who's backstory we already know (or can look up). Has there been any specific mention of factions in PE?

I totally disagree that backstory is irrelevant. Much of Fallout's appeal is the backstory. People wanted to know, how did things come to this. There was a ton of content in both games that just revealed backstory, and finding those snippits really added to my enjoyment of the game. It's also part of building a coherent world. With Wasteland, they have 5 billion years of work done for them. They don't have to worry about anything that happened prior to 1988, and it all makes sense. There have already been complaints about the silly river on the PE map, that's something that InXile will never have to worry about because they can just look at a real map.

Also, cults being in the game might be vague, but it still gives hints about what kind of factions to expect.

 

[Infinitron]

Fargo said a lot of things. Some of them may even be true.

You're just jealous that you haven't gotten to meet the President's wife yet.

 

[oldmanpaco]

I'm jealous I'm not nailing his wife.

 

[EG]

Aside from the whole "copyright law" thing, what prevented them from keeping/sharing their assets in the past?

different engine means different asset pipeline, like animation file types, texture channels, normal map type, asset file type etc. now they could simply swap those assets in and out.

Ah, so the advantage is Unity's multitude of loaders/converters?

I'm surprised there's such a difference though. Aren't these tools relatively standardized now?

 

[Mother Russia]

Holy FAAAAAAAA how the FUCK did a geek like him get a wife like that???

Is she mail order eastern european?

And how did he meet Michelle Obama?

 

[Grimlorn]

Isn't this project based on what Black Hound would've been? That's why they have so much info already, and probably more they haven't released yet? They just might need to develop their own character and combat system if they want to move away from DnD and make something that works with RTwP combat better?

 

[Jaesun]

Isn't this project based on what Black Hound would've been? That's why they have so much info already, and probably more they haven't released yet? They just might need to develop their own character and combat system if they want to move away from DnD and make something that works with RTwP combat better?

Interplay owns the IP of The Black Hound, so they are probably doing a re-write of some of the basics of The Black Hound (It starts out the exact same way) and is now in an entirely different world.

 

[Grimlorn]

Isn't this project based on what Black Hound would've been? That's why they have so much info already, and probably more they haven't released yet? They just might need to develop their own character and combat system if they want to move away from DnD and make something that works with RTwP combat better?

Interplay owns the IP of The Black Hound, so they are probably doing a re-write of some of the basics of The Black Hound (It starts out the exact same way) and is now in an entirely different world.

So why all the hate and skepticism? Why is everyone acting like they don't know what it will be about?

 

[DarkUnderlord]

My argument here is that they aren't constrained by deadlines, even though they showed the estimated date of delivery.

"Professionals" (to borrow your term) are most certainly constrained by deadlines. Watch what happens when projects run out of money to meet their deadline - and then need more of it.

Unfair to whom?

To people at the Codex, to guys who want that fundraiser to succeed. Either you don't understand that by posting this way you sabotaged the effort or you did it on purpose.

Oh please, that's like saying making a negative news post or review (as the Codex often does) is unfair to the games we review and the developers who create them - so therefore we should deliberately seek out someone who's going to be positive to write all reviews and news items.

"Oblivion is... a game... which Bethesda... tried really hard to make... It has many... differences... from Morrowind."

I think it's fairer to promote both sides of the discussion.

And as I've said, if you're not donating because "DarkUnderlord is personally not a huge salivating fan of the project", than I can't exactly say you were really going to donate in the first place. I mean what, I have to support everything around here suddenly because that's "professional"?

More fool you because if this fundraiser is successful, and you haven't donated to it even though you liked the game and wanted a Codex reference in it, you miss out on being able to say you supported the Codex.

Besides, we did much the same thing to Dead State - there certainly wasn't overwhelming love expressed.

Your news post here wasn't neutral, it was highly negative and discouraging.

Yes and the Dead State campaign failed. I guess you can't sugar coat crap.

When was the Codex ever "professional"? If professional means selling out what you actually think and instead selling some crap you don't really believe because you want the kids' money, then professional can go shove it. In fact, that's entirely what the Codex isn't.

Don't put words in my mouth. Professional means doing what you are ought to and doing it the way it should be done.

Oh, so aparently the Codex should be promoting certain KickStarter campaigns then. I see. Can I get a list of those campaigns so I can tell the newsies?

I better tell VoD to tone down some of the negativity in his news posts too. It's down-right unprofessional! We should be encouraging Bethesda to make more RPGs with licenses we love! Oh and when Herve Caen announces his next project KickStarter because no-one will fund him, I'll be certain to find a newspost who can appropriately "professional" and do the job they "ought" to be doing - which is appparently making shit look good.

No-one expected your fundraiser announcement to be Obsidian marketing agenda, but it shouldn't discourage people from donating.

Why not? Seriously, why does it matter? I hate to break it to you but this is an entirely optional thing. We raise whatever cash we can and donate whatever is raised. That is all. If that's not enough to buy whatever tier reward most people wanted, well the Dead State campaign failed too.

What, I should've encouraged that more too I suppose? Perhaps banned everyone who didn't donate? Hmmm... Now that's an idea...

This place doesn't exist to funnel money into developer's pet projects just because that's apparently the "professional" thing to do.

Where have I said it is what "professional" means?

Right here in this thread. If you haven't even been paying attention to what you've been writing, you really shouldn't be posting on the Codex. Stuff like that will come back to bite you.

You've basically said that I should've found another news poster to post the news campaign. Someone who was going to be "professional" and, in the best circumstance, post a positive news post to ensure the donation drive has the most opportunity to suceed.

Sorry, we don't sell news posts here at the Codex. If that's the sort of "professional" journalism you're after, try IGN. They'll happily promote anything positively the minute money is involved.

No, because you'd be doing it just like every other user, you wouldn't be exploiting your rights to impose your personal opinions.

Dude, I run the fucking donation system. All those donations come directly to me. Straight into a bank account I control. The tally gets updated just as soon as I pull out the Spreadsheet and start tracking everything. No money is getting given to anything unless I make it happen. I am inherently involved in this process.

My posts in this thread are pretty much going to be "here's the list of race traitors who feel there aren't enough Elves in the world yet, I'll be banning them as soon as this is over. Oh and by the way, have I told you that IE sucks? We're only $4k away from another shitty IE game!"

You think people are going to see updates from the "guy who hates this shit" and think happy positive thoughts? You're kidding yourself. In fact you'd have the exact same problem as you do now. You'd still be here whining about it, and complaining that I'm not encouraging enough donations "for those who want it to be successful".

Oh wait, lemme guess, I need to find someone else to do that right? Or perhaps I should post the amount, and then in a separate post, tell you how much it sucks. Because apparently that "separates" things in your strange and deluded mind. And, you know, in order to sell-out "be professional".

You seem to not want this fundraiser to succeed and to do everything you can to make it fail without yourself being blamed. Pathetic attempts to discredit me by implying I propose to milk the money for PE on Codex, when I'd just rather have a fair fundraiser announcement

Yes and by "fair" you've basically said "one that is positive and ensures as much money as possible gets raised so that the fundraiser is successsful".

Yeah, that's totally "fair" "free from bias, dishonesty, or injustice". Me thinks you need to check a dictionary. That word doesn't mean what you think it means. What's fair is that I still give you my honest, totally unbiased opinion, while still doing my job to ensure the money actually ends up in Obsidians KickStarter project - rather than me going on a holiday to Mexico with it.

That's fair.

That actually brings up an interesting point that Fargo mentioned during his keynote thingy majig. He said one of the reasons for choosing Unity was the ability to share and redistribute assets between projects, companies, well really anything. He likened using Unity to being like a movie studio using the same lots and backdrops in different lights and styles for vastly different projects. Fargo and Obsidian sharing assets and tech seems extremely likely.

So you mean it's going to be like how that footage of a car from The Island ends up in Transformers 3?

I can't wait until I see the Giant Scorpions from Wasteland 2 in P:E.

 

[garren]

Take a breather there, DU

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I would donate to this if it was to make Josh get a Codex tramp stamp.

"If you're reading this, you're not shitting on my chest"

 

[Lumpy]

Fargo's track record under the inXile label is also bad, but his pitch video showed some understanding of this fact and a desire to return to his previous form. And while he did produce bad games under the inXile label, they were marketed at consoletards, not at us. We shouldn't have touched them anyway, so no harm done. It's very different from Obsidian that has continually failed and ripped off this very market.

In other words Fargo's games were shit but it's all cool because he wasn't even trying.

 

[Lumpy]

DU you're being deliberately obtuse here. 'Professionalism' doesn't imply being favourable to every single game. It does, however, imply these things:

- In issues where you're acting in an 'official' capacity, such as organizing a fundraiser, conducting an interview or such, any opinion you express should be as close to the average Codex opinion as possible. Clearly, a fundraiser for Bethesda or an interview with Gaider could well contain the occasional vicious attack, but as it stands, regarding Project Eternity, the Codex is ambivalent at worst. Since your personal opinion is so far from the consensus, you ought to have refrained from expressing it so clearly.

- Even in matters where subjectivity is appropriate, it should be a basic principle that similar things should be treated in similar ways. I can't see a single damn reason why Wasteland 2 should get such an enthusiastic fundraiser post, whereas Project: Eternity should be treated with derision. Unless, of course, you have found Fargo's project to be progressing at a disappointing rate, and hence come to see the W2 fundraiser as uninspired as well - but it doesn't quite look like that's the case.


Incidentally, I think this whole Kickstarter donation thing is just plain silly, but if the Codex did it for Wasteland 2, I can't see why it shouldn't be done properly for Project Eternity simply because DU happens to be more interested in one than in the other.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

any opinion you express should be as close to the average Codex opinion as possible.

Would you donate to a Codex fundraiser? FUCK THIS SHIT NO - 41.2%

Case closed.