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Europa Universalis IV

None

Scholar
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
1,376
Next DLC is about Persia and the Middle East. Wasn't always a fan of the flavor packs, as DDRJake's approach was always summed up by him adding more hidden buttons to push for mana, but the last two give the game more life in the areas they've covered.

I've returned to this game (a few months ago) after dropping it sometime before Golden Century. And I've gotta say, I've been having fun. EU4, despite a good amount of issues, has always understood what it is supposed to be, moreso than other Pdox titles. For example, HOI4 can't decide whether or not I'm supposed to be primarily conducting war, or clicking through a focus tree and deciding how many machine guns to put on a tank. CK3 is split between being a traditional GSG and The Sims.

Right now the game's main issue seems to be balance. It is way easier than I remember, with everything being done far too quickly. Conquest and coring, discovery and colonization, technology and institutions, etc. All of it happens too quickly or early and by the time I get to ~1600 I've more or less beat the game and the only point of continuing is if I want to do a WC. All the mechanics to slow things down a bit are there, they just need to be tweaked.
 
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
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Right now the game's main issue seems to be balance.
For me a bigger issue is the way in which more recent DLCs introduced various mechanics as tag-specific flavor rather than implementing them across the board and perhaps having a buffed version for said tags (e.g. Britain with their option of picking a colonized province's good in Domination, the upcoming cultural influence mechanic for Persia in King of Kings etc etc).

Overall though, I do agree that EUIV is the best contemporary grand strategy Paradox title in terms of having a coherent vision (and its more boardgame-y nature which I do find quite enjoyable).
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,027
Regarding the difficulty aspect, EU4 long ago decided that world conquest should be possible because there's achievements for it, and anything that makes it harder to do is met with huge resistance by the autists who actually consider WC to be fun. Thanks to this the game has gotten inexorably easier, everything new buff moving the difficulty slider down and anything that moves it back up is removed or nerfed a patch or two later. So any reasonably decent player on a GP is always going to be unstoppable, their only obstacle is time.
 

Axioms

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
1,429
EU4 is easily the best PDox game by a mile. As someone said it is much more cohesive than the others. EU4 is an incremental game with a map and nearly every mechanic follows from that. All the other games have huge problems specifically because they try to keep the core Clausewitz inspired gameplay without accepting the actual nature of the design. And the devs always fall back on meters and modifiers whenever people complain the game is bland or all the factions play the same but the problem is in the other games they are trying to be something else and so it causes conflicts when they do it. Whereas in EU4 new meters and modifiers fit in relatively seamlessly.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,110
EU4 is easily the best PDox game by a mile. As someone said it is much more cohesive than the others. EU4 is an incremental game with a map and nearly every mechanic follows from that. All the other games have huge problems specifically because they try to keep the core Clausewitz inspired gameplay without accepting the actual nature of the design. And the devs always fall back on meters and modifiers whenever people complain the game is bland or all the factions play the same but the problem is in the other games they are trying to be something else and so it causes conflicts when they do it. Whereas in EU4 new meters and modifiers fit in relatively seamlessly.
Hold on there, you're saying something positive about paradox. What's going on? Are health issues affecting your mood, or is it depression? Do you want to talk about it?
 

Axioms

Arcane
Developer
Joined
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Messages
1,429
EU4 is easily the best PDox game by a mile. As someone said it is much more cohesive than the others. EU4 is an incremental game with a map and nearly every mechanic follows from that. All the other games have huge problems specifically because they try to keep the core Clausewitz inspired gameplay without accepting the actual nature of the design. And the devs always fall back on meters and modifiers whenever people complain the game is bland or all the factions play the same but the problem is in the other games they are trying to be something else and so it causes conflicts when they do it. Whereas in EU4 new meters and modifiers fit in relatively seamlessly.
Hold on there, you're saying something positive about paradox. What's going on? Are health issues affecting your mood, or is it depression? Do you want to talk about it?
I've maintained this same position for years on these forums. EU4, not shockingly as it was the primary game of the studio and the one the engine is truly meant for, is the best Paradox game and it is good. Now I haven't bought any of the DLC since maybe Third Rome and I only played EU4 for one month using the subscription in the last several years, but the game at the core is a perfectly good game and if you enjoy incremental games it really stands out. Needs Pops, though.
 

kangaxx

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 26, 2020
Messages
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Atop a flaming horse
I'm having a bit of a renaissance (har har) with this game at the moment... I'd never played Prussia before, and holy fuck is that fun. No pissing about with colonisation, just straight up German military arshficken in Europe. Brilliant stuff. There's nothing like stack wiping 120k Turks.
 

Higher Game

Arcane
Joined
Apr 14, 2005
Messages
13,661
Location
Female Vagina
Next DLC is about Persia and the Middle East. Wasn't always a fan of the flavor packs, as DDRJake's approach was always summed up by him adding more hidden buttons to push for mana, but the last two give the game more life in the areas they've covered.

I've returned to this game (a few months ago) after dropping it sometime before Golden Century. And I've gotta say, I've been having fun. EU4, despite a good amount of issues, has always understood what it is supposed to be, moreso than other Pdox titles. For example, HOI4 can't decide whether or not I'm supposed to be primarily conducting war, or clicking through a focus tree and deciding how many machine guns to put on a tank. CK3 is split between being a traditional GSG and The Sims.

Right now the game's main issue seems to be balance. It is way easier than I remember, with everything being done far too quickly. Conquest and coring, discovery and colonization, technology and institutions, etc. All of it happens too quickly or early and by the time I get to ~1600 I've more or less beat the game and the only point of continuing is if I want to do a WC. All the mechanics to slow things down a bit are there, they just need to be tweaked.

All they need to do is index aggressive expansion to your development so coalitions become blob killers. And there ought to be some kind of AE penalty if you're ramming through multiple offensive wars so you can make a desert and call it peace, except for pesky rebels. And adding AE for mass declaring co-belligerents too.
 

Higher Game

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
13,661
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Female Vagina
Bohemia.png


Catholic Bohemia. It's best NOT to beat up Austria too bad in the beginning, because they're basically always an Ottoman rival and that's how you get an alliance with the Ottomans who will stomp Poland for you. Becoming emperor comes later.
 

kangaxx

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Messages
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Atop a flaming horse
I'm now doing a HRE game too, my first after 1k hours or so. I revoked as Austria around 1600 and the game becomes hilarious at that point. You get the impression that it doesn't know how to react to you because no enemy can even lay a finger on you, including the new Ottos. Just declare war and relax.
 

Higher Game

Arcane
Joined
Apr 14, 2005
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13,661
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Female Vagina
Lorraine.png


Just about to form Lotharingia. If you like pain (and somehow absurd amounts of money even without gold mines or good trade nodes), play Lorraine. :edgy:
 

CthuluIsSpy

Arcane
Joined
Dec 26, 2014
Messages
7,845
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On the internet, writing shit posts.
I've been trying to play as Japan (oda start) and it sucks.
> No admin because you have to core everything during the sengoku jidai
> massive corruption because of unbalanced research if you try to rush renaissance so you can keep up with the AI's military
> Maritime nation so you have to deal with the shitty naval and trade mechanics.
> Korea has stupid buffs to their research and institutions and is allied with a Chinese blob
> Hokkaido gets overrun by some steppes tribe somehow, so to retake it you either have to wait for the war score to tick up or land troops who will get jumped by cav.
> Can't colonize taiwan because it will piss off Ming and eventually Spain will somehow get to Australia in the 1600s

Also, why do the steppes tribes have mil tech level 10? Shouldn't they be behind because of no renaissance and because they are, you know, nomadic tribes?

I don't get why people keep saying Oda ideas are amazing. Sure they get 10% land fire damage, but that's super late in the ideas tree and by the time you get it you've already formed Japan. Japan ideas seem to be more useful overall and some are just flat upgrades.
 

kangaxx

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 26, 2020
Messages
1,373
Location
Atop a flaming horse
I've been trying to play as Japan (oda start) and it sucks.
> No admin because you have to core everything during the sengoku jidai
> massive corruption because of unbalanced research if you try to rush renaissance so you can keep up with the AI's military
> Maritime nation so you have to deal with the shitty naval and trade mechanics.
> Korea has stupid buffs to their research and institutions and is allied with a Chinese blob
> Hokkaido gets overrun by some steppes tribe somehow, so to retake it you either have to wait for the war score to tick up or land troops who will get jumped by cav.
> Can't colonize taiwan because it will piss off Ming and eventually Spain will somehow get to Australia in the 1600s

Also, why do the steppes tribes have mil tech level 10? Shouldn't they be behind because of no renaissance and because they are, you know, nomadic tribes?
I did a Japan run but got bored about 150 years in. The initial wars were annoying but not difficult if you get the right alliances at the start. Ming always seems to implode at some point and it becomes trivial to mop up.

Literally no idea how steppe hordes got to Hokkaido in your game so quickly.. that doesn't sound right.

Either way forming Malaya is a more fun run in that region IMO. In general though I think that whole area of the map is anti-fun to play.
 

CthuluIsSpy

Arcane
Joined
Dec 26, 2014
Messages
7,845
Location
On the internet, writing shit posts.
I got bored because you could literally do nothing. Can't invade Korea because they either have an OP navy, allied to some Chinese superpower or have high tech, Ming doesn't always explode and in about 6 of the attempts I've made to make it fun Ainu keeps getting invaded by the steppe hordes. I don't know if its because I'm missing some super special DLC, or if its because Paradox can't design shit and accidentally made the steppe hordes hate the Ainu for some reason.

Maybe I should try to create Prussia instead. I don't think I have to worry about boats and terrible mechanics there.
 

kangaxx

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I think Mandate of Heaven is the one that makes the Far East playable, do you have that?

Prussia is the best nation I've played btw. Just make sure to build tons (and I mean tons) of GC reduction, churches and workshops before forming. You'll be unstoppable.
 

kangaxx

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I hate myself for what I'm about to say... but I think several of the DLCs are borderline compulsory and you should look to pick them up in sales or find bundles. In particular Emperor, Cradle of Civilisation, Rights of Man, Res Publica, Art of War, Mandate of Heaven, and probably the new world ones as well. They improve the game a hell of a lot, and the negative reviews are mostly deserved for Paradox being cunts, as well as the usual bugs on release.

This is a big reason why I really don't want EU5... the game will be bad until they've released 10 or more DLCs (read: should be in base game).
 
Vatnik Wumao
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Oct 2, 2018
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Either way forming Malaya is a more fun run in that region IMO. In general though I think that whole area of the map is anti-fun to play.
Personally, I find SEA the most fun region to play in (whether mainland or maritime) due to its fragmented nature. Kinda like how some people enjoy playing as various minor tags in the HRE I guess.

This is a big reason why I really don't want EU5... the game will be bad until they've released 10 or more DLCs (read: should be in base game).
Same. I doubt that I'll move onto EUV at all. A superior foundation (which isn't a given anyway) does not make up for a drastic lack of content which it will unavoidably have on release. For better or worse, I'll stick to the bloatware that is EUIV.

Nah, only DLC I have is the Paradise One.
You should definitely pirate all of the DLC. They work with a legit base game and that's how these games are meant to be played.
 

CthuluIsSpy

Arcane
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Dec 26, 2014
Messages
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On the internet, writing shit posts.
I heard you can do that, but I don't want to risk Steam nuking my account. I know it doesn't happen, but you never know, Valve might get their shit together one day.
But yeah, Paradox's DLC policy is arse, especially for EU4. Its not too bad for Stellaris at least; its still bad, but at least they don't nickle and dime you to the same extent they do to you in Eu4 and CK2.
 

Lady Error

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█
Patron
Vatnik
Joined
Jan 21, 2021
Messages
9,208
Strap Yourselves In
Pirate the base game as well then (and have a good anti-malware scanner).

I got all the DLC this year I think when there was a sale. It was cheap too, something like $40 in total. Maybe it was HumbleBundle.
 
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
8,710
Location
Italy
best way to play eu4 legit is to pay the monthly, 4-5 euros to have the full game for one month. how long are you going to play before being bored to tears? a whole month? you're a masochist. i did two, because of anbennar. so i had my fill for less than 10 euros instead of... let me check... HOLY FUCK 470! to own the full game at the same price i'd had had to play it for 40 YEARS.
 

Higher Game

Arcane
Joined
Apr 14, 2005
Messages
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Female Vagina
Lotharingia.png


Lorraine --> Giga Lotharingia. The government reforms that get you +2 relations slots and -10% diplo annex cost for having Burgundian culture are just awesome, but I was paranoid about not getting reelected so didn't expand in Germany nearly enough. The emperor title and its benefits are kind of overrated.
 

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