Europa Universalis IV

[Cursed Platypus]

 

[Zeriel]

Or possibly, "Turkish army quantity analysis".

 

[Corporate_Jew_Master]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissary#Corps_strength

Confirmed for not knowing shit.

A roll call held in Hungary in 1541, reflecting the actual deployed strength of the Ottoman regular army forces participating in campaign, registered 15,612 men as present. Of these approximately 6,350 were Janissaries, 3,700 were Sipahis and another 1,650 were members of the Artillery corps.

So, 6350 is less than 3700? I am intrigued, tell me more.

Because the only action in 1541 was the siege of Buda. They were clearly a garrisson/occupation force.

Nevermind how there were 80000 Sipahis alone and only 6000 Jannisaries available at any time.

 

[trais]

Anyways, I'm glad that I on this one.

But to be fair, EU3 only became enjoyable around In Nomine, so I guess I'll wait for expansions and then decide if it's worth the purchase.

 

[KoolNoodles]

Anyways, I'm glad that I on this one.

But to be fair, EU3 only became enjoyable around In Nomine, so I guess I'll wait for expansions and then decide if it's worth the purchase.

Indeed. Though EU4 is pretty smooth, at least, like CK2. It's just not as beautifully awesome as CK2.....yet.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

But at the very least it doesn't just feel like a stripped-down version of all the other Paradox games like its predecessor did.

 

[Kane]

Because the only action in 1541 was the siege of Buda. They were clearly a garrisson/occupation force.

Nevermind how there were 80000 Sipahis alone and only 6000 Jannisaries available at any time.

The garrison force in the homelands where the sipahis and the siphais were tribal warriors and not part of the standing army. nor was their allegiance guaranteed.

 

[Cursed Platypus]

But overall Hospitallers in vanilla EU is not good country to play. One of the EU3 mods made them interesting and give them means to fight against Ottomans. I hope, that it would been transferred to EU4.

I've been looking for it but couldn't find. Which one is it?

 

[Malakal]

But overall Hospitallers in vanilla EU is not good country to play. One of the EU3 mods made them interesting and give them means to fight against Ottomans. I hope, that it would been transferred to EU4.

I've been looking for it but couldn't find. Which one is it?

Magna Mundi had a dedicated part for knight hospitaliers. It may have come from Dei Gratia but not sure about that.

 

[Grinolf]

I've been looking for it but couldn't find. Which one is it?

Magna Mundi. But Turks in EU4 are children compared to Turks in MM, which even stronger than France in that game.
There is good LP for Hospitallers in MM on that forum.

the main issue is that alliances barely work. As a 5 province nation, no one's ever going to come to your rescue. I have excellent relations with several big neighbours, they are all allied, they are also rivals with the mamelukes, and have been at war with them several times. Yet they won't enter a war, they'll never come to my help (they aren't in a truce). I have to ask one of my friend to play as the byzantines just to stand a chance.

That's why, it is better not to ally with weaklings in the Balkan, who chiken to fight against Turks. Mamluks don't have any problems with joining against Turks. And also it best not waiting for attacking instead been attacked. So it be clear, who help you and who don't.

 

[Sranchammer]

Wouldn't delaying victorious armies from pursuing for a certain number of days eliminate the possibility of the ping-pong shit? I don't that's been solved at all.

Granted the battle system is wonky already, but I'm trying to think of historical precedence for an Army immediately reorganizing to pursue and completely destroy a defeated enemy. Usually they were as battered as the other side, with few exceptions. Only a highly organized Army, like that of Rome at its height, could achieve anything close to it.

 

[Tigranes]

A Text-Only Report Of The Tunisian Cockblock

So I tried Tunis for my second game just for a laugh, with the larp-goal that I would first expand all over the Mediterranean in search of trade, meet Martin Luther and become a devout Protestant Kingdom, and then wage religious war on the Catholics in the name of... Jesus. Problem is that in the 1444 start all seaside regions are pretty well consolidated, either belonging to biggish chunks like Aragon and Napoli or to the HRE.

First step was a speedy invasion of Urbino, the only OPM in the area not to have this protection, and a successful annexation. Core. But -2 stability because I took a stab hit to declare war means increased rebel chances. Queue rebellion while coring, which quickly blooms to a size of 28,000 men - in 1446. The Urbino Nationalists field a larger army than France. They capture Ancona, then go on to besiege Rome for some reason, then Napoli-owned Abruzzi. I sit and wring my hands as Urbino reforms, now as a two-province, automatically beginning wars with Napoli and with myself (separately). As a fully fledged nation, Urbino realises it cannot pay for 28,000 men and promptly disbands everyone except 5,000 - which is just about all I can afford. I promptly land my ships in a set of evenly pitched battles and just win. The result: Urbino rebels have given me Abruzzi as well.

Once again, I try and core, and once again, rebellion while coring. Still on -2 stab. Urbino Nationalist Horde wipes out my army for a second time. I eventually accept demands, which strangely does not reform Urbino, but Abruzzi gets -100% everything Autonomy modifier for 20 years. Seeing its continued ownership as pointless for now I sell it to Napoli for 60 gold and try to core Ancona ASAP, using points for stability and harsh treatment. Ancona is cored. I relax and begin the missionary conversion process - which hikes up rebellion chance by 6%, and soon there is Urbino Horde III that wipes my army. Again. It goes rampant, again, and forms Urbino again, this time including the Papacy-owned Romagna. Urbino disbands the entire horde again, I swoop in again. The result: Urbino rebels have given me Romagna as well.

At this point my army has been wiped 4+ times, I am perpetually in negative stability, I can't afford any Ideas, and I only have trade income from the Tunis node to continue to replenish my army and keep a foothold. Just before Romagna is cored, Urbino Horde IV rises and wipes my army. Again. My ally, the Ottoman Empire, drags me into a war with Venice, which promptly sinks all my ships.

And that's where I'm at.

 

[Malakal]

Wouldn't delaying victorious armies from pursuing for a certain number of days eliminate the possibility of the ping-pong shit? I don't that's been solved at all.

Granted the battle system is wonky already, but I'm trying to think of historical precedence for an Army immediately reorganizing to pursue and completely destroy a defeated enemy. Usually they were as battered as the other side, with few exceptions. Only a highly organized Army, like that of Rome at its height, could achieve anything close to it.

Armies cant move without morale, its in the game. If your morale drops too much armies have to reorganize. Besides ping pong is greatly reduced as battles are more decisive. Its only back in wars with huge nations but then Napoleon did not win a war with Russia after one battle.

 

[Malakal]

A Text-Only Report Of The Tunisian Cockblock

So I tried Tunis for my second game just for a laugh, with the larp-goal that I would first expand all over the Mediterranean in search of trade, meet Martin Luther and become a devout Protestant Kingdom, and then wage religious war on the Catholics in the name of... Jesus. Problem is that in the 1444 start all seaside regions are pretty well consolidated, either belonging to biggish chunks like Aragon and Napoli or to the HRE.

First step was a speedy invasion of Urbino, the only OPM in the area not to have this protection, and a successful annexation. Core. But -2 stability because I took a stab hit to declare war means increased rebel chances. Queue rebellion while coring, which quickly blooms to a size of 28,000 men - in 1446. The Urbino Nationalists field a larger army than France. They capture Ancona, then go on to besiege Rome for some reason, then Napoli-owned Abruzzi. I sit and wring my hands as Urbino reforms, now as a two-province, automatically beginning wars with Napoli and with myself (separately). As a fully fledged nation, Urbino realises it cannot pay for 28,000 men and promptly disbands everyone except 5,000 - which is just about all I can afford. I promptly land my ships in a set of evenly pitched battles and just win. The result: Urbino rebels have given me Abruzzi as well.

Once again, I try and core, and once again, rebellion while coring. Still on -2 stab. Urbino Nationalist Horde wipes out my army for a second time. I eventually accept demands, which strangely does not reform Urbino, but Abruzzi gets -100% everything Autonomy modifier for 20 years. Seeing its continued ownership as pointless for now I sell it to Napoli for 60 gold and try to core Ancona ASAP, using points for stability and harsh treatment. Ancona is cored. I relax and begin the missionary conversion process - which hikes up rebellion chance by 6%, and soon there is Urbino Horde III that wipes my army. Again. It goes rampant, again, and forms Urbino again, this time including the Papacy-owned Romagna. Urbino disbands the entire horde again, I swoop in again. The result: Urbino rebels have given me Romagna as well.

At this point my army has been wiped 4+ times, I am perpetually in negative stability, I can't afford any Ideas, and I only have trade income from the Tunis node to continue to replenish my army and keep a foothold. Just before Romagna is cored, Urbino Horde IV rises and wipes my army. Again. My ally, the Ottoman Empire, drags me into a war with Venice, which promptly sinks all my ships.

And that's where I'm at.

At least in Polish history rebels DID field much larger army than the Polish state ever did. But your approach seems... flawed. Why not go to war with positive stability and enough points for core plus revolt reduction and stab boost?

 

[Sranchammer]

Wouldn't delaying victorious armies from pursuing for a certain number of days eliminate the possibility of the ping-pong shit? I don't that's been solved at all.

Granted the battle system is wonky already, but I'm trying to think of historical precedence for an Army immediately reorganizing to pursue and completely destroy a defeated enemy. Usually they were as battered as the other side, with few exceptions. Only a highly organized Army, like that of Rome at its height, could achieve anything close to it.

Armies cant move without morale, its in the game. If your morale drops too much armies have to reorganize. Besides ping pong is greatly reduced as battles are more decisive. Its only back in wars with huge nations but then Napoleon did not win a war with Russia after one battle.

Well, that's the gist of it. Napoleon changed the way warfare was done in Europe. Multiple day battles expending huge amounts of casualties would became the norm up until WW1. This was not the norm in the EU4 time period, however.

Before then, you essentially had unorganized masses of men commandeered by generals who would be far less aggressive in seeking battle than their 19th century since one blunder could mean total defeat. That was not the case with Napoleonic Armies which could survive the loss of a Corps. Campaign of maneuver rather than hunter-killer.

 

[Tigranes]

At least in Polish history rebels DID field much larger army than the Polish state ever did. But your approach seems... flawed. Why not go to war with positive stability and enough points for core plus revolt reduction and stab boost?

I wanted to hit Urbino before it had time to ally Austria or Venice or anything, and it was clear that they were the only option I would ever have for a foothold (do you see Siena exiting HRE or Napoli splintering?) in the near future. -2 Stab I thought was not a big deal - and it isn't, except for the rebel chance. I did have enough points for coring, stab boost and everything - it's just that I foolishly thought I could just spend on coring and save the rest for Admin 4 & Ideas. It would have been better to throw all my points at assimilation and hold on missionaries, then it could have stabilised.

Mainly, I just got to 1700 with a very conservative and quite boring/safe game as Mainz owning most of Germany, so wanted to take some risks. Also, Ironman mode. May persist with it, or try in a similar vein with a Western OPM.

 

[Luzur]

Wouldn't delaying victorious armies from pursuing for a certain number of days eliminate the possibility of the ping-pong shit? I don't that's been solved at all.

Granted the battle system is wonky already, but I'm trying to think of historical precedence for an Army immediately reorganizing to pursue and completely destroy a defeated enemy. Usually they were as battered as the other side, with few exceptions. Only a highly organized Army, like that of Rome at its height, could achieve anything close to it.

Armies cant move without morale, its in the game. If your morale drops too much armies have to reorganize. Besides ping pong is greatly reduced as battles are more decisive. Its only back in wars with huge nations but then Napoleon did not win a war with Russia after one battle.

Well, that's the gist of it. Napoleon changed the way warfare was done in Europe. Multiple day battles expending huge amounts of casualties would became the norm up until WW1. This was not the norm in the EU4 time period, however.

Before then, you essentially had unorganized masses of men commandeered by generals who would be far less aggressive in seeking battle than their 19th century since one blunder could mean total defeat. That was not the case with Napoleonic Armies which could survive the loss of a Corps. Campaign of maneuver rather than hunter-killer.

mostly Generals back in those days would rather have a good, safe siege then a ground battle (and if battle was unavoidable and if possible, better if an allied army took the brunt of it), since it was less risk of loosing men that way.

btw, gotta ask, how do i get more diplomats? i get around fine with my 2, but i guess its some i idea i need to have now? (i even tried the old "Diplomat" cheat from EUIII, didnt work)

 

[Malakal]

Wouldn't delaying victorious armies from pursuing for a certain number of days eliminate the possibility of the ping-pong shit? I don't that's been solved at all.

Granted the battle system is wonky already, but I'm trying to think of historical precedence for an Army immediately reorganizing to pursue and completely destroy a defeated enemy. Usually they were as battered as the other side, with few exceptions. Only a highly organized Army, like that of Rome at its height, could achieve anything close to it.

Armies cant move without morale, its in the game. If your morale drops too much armies have to reorganize. Besides ping pong is greatly reduced as battles are more decisive. Its only back in wars with huge nations but then Napoleon did not win a war with Russia after one battle.

Well, that's the gist of it. Napoleon changed the way warfare was done in Europe. Multiple day battles expending huge amounts of casualties would became the norm up until WW1. This was not the norm in the EU4 time period, however.

Before then, you essentially had unorganized masses of men commandeered by generals who would be far less aggressive in seeking battle than their 19th century since one blunder could mean total defeat. That was not the case with Napoleonic Armies which could survive the loss of a Corps. Campaign of maneuver rather than hunter-killer.

mostly Generals back in those days would rather have a good, safe siege then a ground battle (and if battle was unavoidable and if possible, better if an allied army took the brunt of it), since it was less risk of loosing men that way.

btw, gotta ask, how do i get more diplomats? i get around fine with my 2, but i guess its some i idea i need to have now? (i even tried the old "Diplomat" cheat from EUIII, didnt work)

Diplomatic idea group, embassy building unlocked mid game, aristocratic idea group and thats it I guess.

 

[Luzur]

Yeah rebel scaling is borked I hope they fix that soon. Even some 2000 disgruntled farmers can cause stacks of 40k spawning on the other half of the map in some backwater shithole with a taxincome of 0.5.

currently in my game Ottomans are deep in shit because of a 60+ Hungarian/Serb nationalist rebel stack spread out all over the Balkans.

its quite fun to watch those muslims getting kicked back over Bospor again by enraged natives.

 

[Luzur]

also, did they remove the "Ctrl-F12 for detailed screenshot" function?

 

[Cursed Platypus]

A Text-Only Report Of The Tunisian Cockblock

So I tried Tunis for my second game just for a laugh, with the larp-goal that I would first expand all over the Mediterranean in search of trade, meet Martin Luther and become a devout Protestant Kingdom, and then wage religious war on the Catholics in the name of... Jesus. Problem is that in the 1444 start all seaside regions are pretty well consolidated, either belonging to biggish chunks like Aragon and Napoli or to the HRE.

First step was a speedy invasion of Urbino, the only OPM in the area not to have this protection, and a successful annexation. Core. But -2 stability because I took a stab hit to declare war means increased rebel chances. Queue rebellion while coring, which quickly blooms to a size of 28,000 men - in 1446. The Urbino Nationalists field a larger army than France. They capture Ancona, then go on to besiege Rome for some reason, then Napoli-owned Abruzzi. I sit and wring my hands as Urbino reforms, now as a two-province, automatically beginning wars with Napoli and with myself (separately). As a fully fledged nation, Urbino realises it cannot pay for 28,000 men and promptly disbands everyone except 5,000 - which is just about all I can afford. I promptly land my ships in a set of evenly pitched battles and just win. The result: Urbino rebels have given me Abruzzi as well.

Once again, I try and core, and once again, rebellion while coring. Still on -2 stab. Urbino Nationalist Horde wipes out my army for a second time. I eventually accept demands, which strangely does not reform Urbino, but Abruzzi gets -100% everything Autonomy modifier for 20 years. Seeing its continued ownership as pointless for now I sell it to Napoli for 60 gold and try to core Ancona ASAP, using points for stability and harsh treatment. Ancona is cored. I relax and begin the missionary conversion process - which hikes up rebellion chance by 6%, and soon there is Urbino Horde III that wipes my army. Again. It goes rampant, again, and forms Urbino again, this time including the Papacy-owned Romagna. Urbino disbands the entire horde again, I swoop in again. The result: Urbino rebels have given me Romagna as well.

At this point my army has been wiped 4+ times, I am perpetually in negative stability, I can't afford any Ideas, and I only have trade income from the Tunis node to continue to replenish my army and keep a foothold. Just before Romagna is cored, Urbino Horde IV rises and wipes my army. Again. My ally, the Ottoman Empire, drags me into a war with Venice, which promptly sinks all my ships.

And that's where I'm at.

At least in Polish history rebels DID field much larger army than the Polish state ever did. But your approach seems... flawed. Why not go to war with positive stability and enough points for core plus revolt reduction and stab boost?

I know tigranes' fell. It's simply absurb that one tiny Italian region can suddenly field a full fledged army of 28 000 men, when a country of 15+ provinces like France has 25 000.
Rebels and the whole unrest mechanism should be revamped (and should have been different in the first place). I don't know what kind of retard thought it would be a good idea, but it makes conquering provinces from another culture and religion nigh impossible. Which makes playing those surrounded by those provinces a tedious frustrating experience more than a challenge.
They could have come up with a better idea, still as challenging, than a 12 000 strong army of doom when you take a province.

Also, it also makes playing a large empire even easier. You can always lose a war, afford to lose 3-5 provinces, most will eventually come back to you thanks to this 10 000 strong hidden army you left behind in each of them.

 

[Average Manatee]

btw, gotta ask, how do i get more diplomats? i get around fine with my 2, but i guess its some i idea i need to have now? (i even tried the old "Diplomat" cheat from EUIII, didnt work)

Diplomatic idea group, embassy building unlocked mid game, aristocratic idea group and thats it I guess.

Controlling the Curia gives one, and the Emperor will get one after one of the early reforms.

 

[Multiple Sarcasm]

btw, gotta ask, how do i get more diplomats? i get around fine with my 2, but i guess its some i idea i need to have now? (i even tried the old "Diplomat" cheat from EUIII, didnt work)

Diplomatic idea group, embassy building unlocked mid game, aristocratic idea group and thats it I guess.

Controlling the Curia gives one, and the Emperor will get one after one of the early reforms.

Espionage idea also gives one.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

My Burgundy campaign has been going along nicely. This time I decided not to focus on colonization (I'm only now preparing to take the Exploration idea, in 17th century). Instead, I decided to be the terror of Central Europe. France was defeated early on, the Dutch ain't going nowhere, Catalonia is part of Burgundy too, and now the coup de grace of Burgundian King being the permanent Holy Roman Emperor (Protestant, incidentally) has been finished.

Also, where's my Enforce Religious Unity option gone?

 

[Malakal]

My Burgundy campaign has been going along nicely. This time I decided not to focus on colonization (I'm only now preparing to take the Exploration idea, in 17th century). Instead, I decided to be the terror of Central Europe. France was defeated early on, the Dutch ain't going nowhere, Catalonia is part of Burgundy too, and now the coup de grace of Burgundian King being the permanent Holy Roman Emperor (Protestant, incidentally) has been finished.

Also, where's my Enforce Religious Unity option gone?

Its in the imperial actions in diplomacy.