Game News Expeditions: Rome Dev Diary #3 - Story

[Mark Richard]

"I can't believe they have women in the party just like every other party-based RPG in existence"

A key sentence is

To us, history isn’t a set of events that must be experienced the way they actually happened, but rather a backdrop for a complex plot that may borrow countless elements from history but must not be limited by it.

Isn't that statement just reaffirming what the Expedition series already does for the benefit of newcomers? In historical fiction literature the outline of recorded history is generally preserved, such as the outcome of major battles, but the details can be changed for the sake of entertainment. A commander known for his bravery might've won the battle for real, but his fictional counterpart turned out to be a coward who simply took credit for the true hero's exploits. RPGs have to go further with the introduction of player choice. Apparently Logic Artists has someone Jonas affectionately describes as a 'history enforcer' to make sure they don't go completely off the rails (and I hope his every word is law), but the thing to strive for here is authenticity. Equipment, culture, attitudes - everything is grounded by this before the player is thrust into the role of a character who's in a position to alter the course of history. Wouldn't be much of an RPG if I couldn't side with the Aztec Empire instead of destroying them.

In regard to the historical elements, thus far I've seen no indication of any shift in direction at all. Conquistador had an optional female player character and recruitable warrior women, including one the party refers to as an amazon! From the very beginning it was all here.

Pathfinder: Kingmaker is another game that had to endure this scrutiny, even though the arguments against it crumble to dust when confronted by the tiniest dose of logic. Yes the barbarian is a strong woman, but she's also a joke. Yes the orc and elf have a romantic relationship, but its depicted as deeply unhealthy. By its very nature virtue signalling is not subtle or nuanced. Confirming its existence should be easy, and yet more often than not the '''damning evidence''' is stripped of the very context that would've flipped the argument on the person who presented it.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

"I can't believe they have women in the party just like every other party-based RPG in existence"

A key sentence is

To us, history isn’t a set of events that must be experienced the way they actually happened, but rather a backdrop for a complex plot that may borrow countless elements from history but must not be limited by it.

Isn't that statement just reaffirming what the Expedition series already does for the benefit of newcomers? In historical fiction literature the outline of recorded history is generally preserved, such as the outcome of major battles, but the details can be changed for the sake of entertainment. A commander known for his bravery might've won the battle for real, but his fictional counterpart turned out to be a coward who simply took credit for the true hero's exploits. RPGs have to go further with the introduction of player choice. Apparently Logic Artists has someone Jonas affectionately describes as a 'history enforcer' to make sure they don't go completely off the rails (and I hope his every word is law), but the thing to strive for here is authenticity. Equipment, culture, attitudes - everything is grounded by this before the player is thrust into the role of a character who's in a position to alter the course of history. Wouldn't be much of an RPG if I couldn't side with the Aztec Empire instead of destroying them.

In regard to the historical elements, thus far I've seen no indication of any shift in direction at all. Conquistador had an optional female player character and recruitable warrior women, including one the party refers to as an amazon! From the very beginning it was all here.

Pathfinder: Kingmaker is another game that had to endure this scrutiny, even though the arguments against it crumble to dust when confronted by the tiniest dose of logic. Yes the barbarian is a strong woman, but she's also a joke. Yes the orc and elf have a romantic relationship, but its depicted as deeply unhealthy. By its very nature virtue signalling is not subtle or nuanced. Confirming its existence should be easy, and yet more often than not the '''damning evidence''' is stripped of the very context that would've flipped the argument on the person who presented it.

"the previous games were shit therefore this justifies the next one being shit"
idk, you guys can enjoy your plate of feces

 

[Alphons]

I wouldn't describe Expeditions as game series striving to be "historically accurate" or anything close to that.

From the beginning you've had gods, magical artifacts and WYMYN.

As long as they deliver a good game with huge amount of choices that can impact the entire playthrough (which I have doubts about considering full voice acting), I'll be satisfied.

 

[Shrimp]

In Conquistador you encounter an Aztec god that kills one of your expedition members with blood magic or some shit, but I'm sure that's 100% historically accurate.

 

[Dr Schultz]

I wouldn't describe Expeditions as game series striving to be "historically accurate" or anything close to that.

From the beginning you've had gods, magical artifacts and WYMYN.

As long as they deliver a good game with huge amount of choices that can impact the entire playthrough (which I have doubts about considering full voice acting), I'll be satisfied.

In Conquistador you encounter an Aztec god that kills one of your expedition members with blood magic or some shit, but I'm sure that's 100% historically accurate.

This is precisely the point. The only “RPG" that a sane person would call historically accurate is Kingdom Come. Every other RPG ever produced is not.

As far as the Expedition series goes, this is a fairly accurate game (which is to say it isn't accurate, but still gives you a certain flavor of the epoch while in the meanwhile strives to be a good tactical RPG).

Problem is, Rome inaccuracies (real or presumed) hurt some sensibilities among American players. Conquistador/Viking inaccuracies can't be used as easily for pointless political debates, so they are accepted without a word.

As a direct discendent of the mighty Romans and as a history buff, I can assure you that I don't give a fuck about America's internal problems nor would my Roman ancestors, which were quite happy to live as the ruling
ethnicity of a multiethnic empire.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

In Conquistador you encounter an Aztec god that kills one of your expedition members with blood magic or some shit, but I'm sure that's 100% historically accurate.

But it was based on myths and legends.
Randomly throwing in KANGZ is appealing to modern sensibilities.

I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand. Are you doing it on purpose?

 

[Dr Schultz]

In Conquistador you encounter an Aztec god that kills one of your expedition members with blood magic or some shit, but I'm sure that's 100% historically accurate.

But it was based on myths and legends.
Randomly throwing in KANGZ is appealing to modern sensibilities.

I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand. Are you doing it on purpose?

Famale PC and companions in Conquistador are based on legends too ?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

In Conquistador you encounter an Aztec god that kills one of your expedition members with blood magic or some shit, but I'm sure that's 100% historically accurate.

But it was based on myths and legends.
Randomly throwing in KANGZ is appealing to modern sensibilities.

I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand. Are you doing it on purpose?

Famale PC and companions in Conquistador are based on legends too ?

No, that was just appealing to modernist sensibilities in 2013.
Don't complain to me when the next game is full of half-mutant childfuckers that have sex with animals.

 

[Dr Schultz]

In Conquistador you encounter an Aztec god that kills one of your expedition members with blood magic or some shit, but I'm sure that's 100% historically accurate.

But it was based on myths and legends.
Randomly throwing in KANGZ is appealing to modern sensibilities.

I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand. Are you doing it on purpose?

Famale PC and companions in Conquistador are based on legends too ?

No, that was just appealing to modernist sensibilities in 2013.
Don't complain to me when the next game is full of half-mutant childfuckers that have sex with animals.

Speaking of pseudo-historical RPG, in 1992, was Darklands appealing to the modernist sensibilities as well?

As far as I remember you can make a 100% penis -free party in that game.
The same goes for Lex Arcana, best P&P RPG about the Roman empire, firstly published in 1993.

In my nativity, I thought that they allowed these unlikely or utterly impossible female characters only because sometimes women play RPG like their male counterpart.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Speaking of pseudo-historical RPG, in 1992, was Darklands appealing to the modernist sensibilities as well?

you've never played the game, have you?

 

[Dr Schultz]

Speaking of pseudo-historical RPG, in 1992, was Darklands appealing to the modernist sensibilities as well?

you've never played the game, have you?

Never unistalled from my laptop.

https://images.app.goo.gl/nZy3S1RFr5LieV5s9

Probably this comes as shock for you, but in Darklands nothing prevents you from rolling a female character with a quite feminine model (the first one in this party)

 

[whydoibother]

Oh wow, a woman and an african are in the promo materials. I guess discussing the game is now impossible, and liking it is now illegal. Shame, because I liked it and I can't wait to play.
Both the previous two Expeditions games were good, though the Vikings one messed up the pacing.

 

[Mark Richard]

"the previous games were shit therefore this justifies the next one being shit"
idk, you guys can enjoy your plate of feces

Expeditions: Viking placed 83rd on RPG Codex's Top 101 PC RPGs of all time.

In Conquistador you encounter an Aztec god that kills one of your expedition members with blood magic or some shit, but I'm sure that's 100% historically accurate.

But it was based on myths and legends.
Randomly throwing in KANGZ is appealing to modern sensibilities.
I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand. Are you doing it on purpose?

The Roman Empire encompassed a great deal of the known world. Why wouldn't they display their wealth and power by picking up some exotic gladiators for the colosseum? Its basic showmanship. Pro-wrestling crowds still love rooting against the foreign savage today.

As for women... the amazon is one of the most recognizable warrior woman legends in history, and trailing slightly behind is the Viking shield-maiden. I'm trying to imagine your perfect RPG where every companion shares the same upbringing and culture, and usually arrive at a mess like Ultima 9 in which the Avatar keeps asking questions any functional human being should know the answers to. Stories need some kind of mechanism to facilitate the audience's understanding of worlds they're unaccustomed to, and a diverse set of party members is one way to achieve that (plus the whole amnesia thing has been done to death). It gives the player an opportunity to safely ask questions without revealing themselves to be a time travelling parasite from the 21st century whose latched onto somebody else's brain.

An exception to this is the Consortium RPG where you can deliberately reveal that you are in fact a time travelling parasite from the 21st century whose latched onto somebody else's brain.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

instead of looping yourself into a pretzel to explain clownworldia it's easier to just realize why there's KANGZ in everything now

 

[Dr Schultz]

instead of looping yourself into a pretzel to explain clownworldia it's easier to just realize why there's KANGZ in everything now

It's also easier to realize that - as the average American - your knowledge of ancient history is close to zero :D

 

[rusty_shackleford]

instead of looping yourself into a pretzel to explain clownworldia it's easier to just realize why there's KANGZ in everything now

It's also easier to realize that - as the average American - your knowledge of ancient history is close to zero :D

If Americans are so dumb, what does that say about the people who are dumb enough to be our cock holsters?

 

[Dr Schultz]

instead of looping yourself into a pretzel to explain clownworldia it's easier to just realize why there's KANGZ in everything now

It's also easier to realize that - as the average American - your knowledge of ancient history is close to zero :D

If Americans are so dumb, what does that say about the people who are dumb enough to be our cock holsters?

I didn't say Americans are dumb. I know enough of this world to understand that the US of today are the most influential empire in human history.

This doesn't prevent Amaricans to be blatantly ignorant about ancient history (on avarage), though, as amply proved by your posts in this topic

 

[rusty_shackleford]

instead of looping yourself into a pretzel to explain clownworldia it's easier to just realize why there's KANGZ in everything now

It's also easier to realize that - as the average American - your knowledge of ancient history is close to zero :D

If Americans are so dumb, what does that say about the people who are dumb enough to be our cock holsters?

I didn't say Americans are dumb. I know enough of this world to understand that the US of today are the most influential empire in human history.

This doesn't prevent Amaricans to be blatantly ignorant about ancient history (on avarage), though, as amply has proved by your posts in this topic

my posts:
citing historical texts

your posts:
look at this historian! look at him! there were kangz in northern africa!

 

[Morality Games]

Furthermore, I consider that Infinitron must be banned.

These are the guys that made Expeditions: Conquistador? What the fuck happened?

?

They're doing the same stuff they've always done.

Expeditions: Conquistador had a tribe of Aztec Amazon-esque rebels, the main function of which seems to have been to supply your PC with a romance option. I'm not aware of any historic basis.

50% of the potential recruits for your Spanish expedition were professional female soldiers, including dedicated gunfighters and swordsman, and also including a companion you recruited in the first act who was also a full-blooded Native American masquerading as a mestizo so she could be an officer (? maybe just a soldier) in the local Spanish garrison.

Logic Artists' version of Earth's timeline has always existed in an alternate state of the imagination where women were more active participants in masculine roles and occupations than occurred in real history, they've been consistent about this from the start of the series.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Logic Artists' version of Earth's timeline has always mirrored whatever western libtards expect in the products they consoom at that very moment

ftfy

 

[Dr Schultz]

instead of looping yourself into a pretzel to explain clownworldia it's easier to just realize why there's KANGZ in everything now

It's also easier to realize that - as the average American - your knowledge of ancient history is close to zero :D

If Americans are so dumb, what does that say about the people who are dumb enough to be our cock holsters?

I didn't say Americans are dumb. I know enough of this world to understand that the US of today are the most influential empire in human history.

This doesn't prevent Amaricans to be blatantly ignorant about ancient history (on avarage), though, as amply has proved by your posts in this topic

my posts:
citing historical texts

your posts:
look at this historian! look at him! there were kangz in northern africa!

Quoting a decontealized fragment of an ancient author that a) is contradicted by centuries of documented history b) you don't have the slightest idea about why he wrote the fragment c) you can't even read in Latin, is definitely an impressive display of knowledge :D

Man, you are ignorant to the point that you don't know what a Berber looks like :asd:

I'm totally impressed :D

 

[rusty_shackleford]

instead of looping yourself into a pretzel to explain clownworldia it's easier to just realize why there's KANGZ in everything now

It's also easier to realize that - as the average American - your knowledge of ancient history is close to zero :D

If Americans are so dumb, what does that say about the people who are dumb enough to be our cock holsters?

I didn't say Americans are dumb. I know enough of this world to understand that the US of today are the most influential empire in human history.

This doesn't prevent Amaricans to be blatantly ignorant about ancient history (on avarage), though, as amply has proved by your posts in this topic

my posts:
citing historical texts

your posts:
look at this historian! look at him! there were kangz in northern africa!

Quoting a decontealized fragment of an ancient author that a) is contradicted by centuries of documented history b) you don't have the slightest idea about why he wrote the fragment c) you can't even read in Latin, is definitely an impressive display of knowledge :D

Man, you are ignorant to the point that you don't know what a Berber looks like :asd:

I'm totally impressed :D

don't forget to pray to black science man so he can interpret the holy texts for you

 

[Dr Schultz]

instead of looping yourself into a pretzel to explain clownworldia it's easier to just realize why there's KANGZ in everything now

It's also easier to realize that - as the average American - your knowledge of ancient history is close to zero :D

If Americans are so dumb, what does that say about the people who are dumb enough to be our cock holsters?

I didn't say Americans are dumb. I know enough of this world to understand that the US of today are the most influential empire in human history.

This doesn't prevent Amaricans to be blatantly ignorant about ancient history (on avarage), though, as amply has proved by your posts in this topic

my posts:
citing historical texts

your posts:
look at this historian! look at him! there were kangz in northern africa!

Quoting a decontealized fragment of an ancient author that a) is contradicted by centuries of documented history b) you don't have the slightest idea about why he wrote the fragment c) you can't even read in Latin, is definitely an impressive display of knowledge :D

Man, you are ignorant to the point that you don't know what a Berber looks like :asd:

I'm totally impressed :D

don't forget to pray to black science man so he can interpret the holy texts for you

One day I will explain you in details how the rest of the world (the non American part) simply doesn't give a fuck about your silly ideological battle.

I'm not calling you ignorant because I'm particularly simphatetic to the cause of black American people. I'm calling you ignorant because you clearly are.

 

[The_Mask]

In my head, the only way that image makes sense is if the black person there is a slave bodyguard to your main character.

That would explain the somewhat functional armour, and the lack of shield and leg protection.

 

[Roguey]

It's also easier to realize that - as the average American - your knowledge of ancient history is close to zero :D

Yeah if only Americans were as enlightened as the Brits.