Fallout Fallout 1 is the best RPG of all time that stood the test of time

[Master]

What are you trying to say exactly?

Consider why more people bought Fallout than Jagged Alliance 2.

The quote is about Turn Based tactics, not overland strategy...

 

[Roguey]

Tell us the reason/s, Roguey.

Was the boxart not attractive? Was the game too complex? Critics too dumb? Marketing not there? I haven't looked into it, tbh. Not really my forte.

Those all could be contributing factors, but overall, Fallout was a more appealing concept to more people than Jagged Alliance.

The quote is about Turn Based tactics, not overland strategy...

The quote is just providing proof that it didn't do well financially. The strategic combat didn't do it any favors with the RPG crowd. Most RPGs only offer the illusion of strategic gameplay because most people can't stand the idea of being unable to progress because they made a series of less-than-optimal decisions over time that added up. JA2 takes that and adds even more to it.

 

[Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss]

Most RPGs only offer the illusion of strategic gameplay because most people can't stand the idea of being unable to progress because they made a series of less-than-optimal decisions over time that added up. JA2 takes that and adds even more to it.

This, and most cRPGs also offer the illusion of character building even for storyfag purposes. What do we have at the end? WTF?

 

[Lhynn]

Don't think it's not arguable: you will only make a fool of yourself.

Its not tho.

 

[Master]

Tell us the reason/s, Roguey.

Was the boxart not attractive? Was the game too complex? Critics too dumb? Marketing not there? I haven't looked into it, tbh. Not really my forte.

Those all could be contributing factors, but overall, Fallout was a more appealing concept to more people than Jagged Alliance.

The quote is about Turn Based tactics, not overland strategy...

The quote is just providing proof that it didn't do well financially. The strategic combat didn't do it any favors with the RPG crowd. Most RPGs only offer the illusion of strategic gameplay because most people can't stand the idea of being unable to progress because they made a series of less-than-optimal decisions over time that added up. JA2 takes that and adds even more to it.

So what are you saying, you didnt like it because it didnt offer you an illusion, but the real thing instead?

 

[Roguey]

So what are you saying, you didnt like it because it didnt offer you an illusion, but the real thing instead?

Real strategic RPG elements are fine with me, I objected to the part where you have to train militias to keep the places you clear out from being taken over again.

 

[Lilura]

It is... But its subservient to the strategic and tactical element. Your personal tactics and strategy decide more than your stats. In FO your stats decide more than in JA plain and simple. Lilura should not attempt to disprove this.

It's almost like you're saying merc stats don't dictate tactical and strategic outcomes (as well as game-changing dialogue checks/quest reactivity).

As with everything, it is not as "plain and simple" as you would like to make it out to be.

 

[Master]

Yeah almost except, i didnt say that. Just that stats decide more in Fallout, which is true. I dont see a problem there, it doesnt diminish JA2... But you cant seriously argue that its a better RPG than Fallout. Or can you?

So what are you saying, you didnt like it because it didnt offer you an illusion, but the real thing instead?

Real strategic RPG elements are fine with me, I objected to the part where you have to train militias to keep the places you clear out from being taken over again.

That is a real strategic element... And its not like you have to train them yourself, you just click a button three times.

 

[Kalin]

seriously argue

gud1

 

[Master]

Thinking about this some more, I would say that simply by having a squad at your disposal it makes JA2 less of an RPG and this may be true for all squad based Rpgs. They are always more strategy or tactical games. BG, even ToEE. Possibly because in a way you always have access to all the other skills, which goes against the whole RPG thing. If you controlled only one guy in JA2... But you would need one helluva AI for that.

 

[TedNugent]

I hear Planescape: Torment is pretty good too.

 

[Ninjerk]

Thinking about this some more, I would say that simply by having a squad at your disposal it makes JA2 less of an RPG and this may be true for all squad based Rpgs. They are always more strategy or tactical games. BG, even ToEE. Possibly because in a way you always have access to all the other skills, which goes against the whole RPG thing. If you controlled only one guy in JA2... But you would need one helluva AI for that.

mondblut

 

[Cael]

There is one reason why Fallout 1 isn't the best: inventory control.

That was a complete mess, which was surprising, since there were so many more RPGs that came before it that had far better inventory control. Fortunately, Fallout 2 fixed most of it.

 

[Master]

Fallout Fixt fixes it for FO1 too...

 

[norolim]

Spoiler

So anyway, today at 03.40 am I finished this playthrough of Fallout and I can finally add it to my Stupid Highly Irrelevant Evaluation Table, or S.H.I.E.T. I also decided it needs a small celebration here, on the Codex. For a while, I was contemplating necroing the oldest Fallout thread I could find, but then I remembered I already posted about it in this one.

I'm not going to write a review, because I couldn't possibly add anything new to the discussion. Instead I'll illustrate why Fallout went straight to the top of my RPG list, by providing short descriptive ratings of some of the core systems and features:

Combat: very good for a solo TB system, multiple modifiers and Aimed Shot function are its strongest points.

Character Progression: a model system. A perfect balance between complexity & accessibility . Most skills, perks & traits are useful during gameplay.

Controls & UI: Great character sheet and keyboard shortcuts, bad inventory.

Itemisation: hand placed gear means you won't be finding 20 knives in the final location. Good.

World Quality: solid depth of interaction with the environment & NPCs. Great atmosphere & characterisation of the setting. Fantastic.

AI: along with bugs, probably the biggest weakness of the game.

Choices & Consequences: it hardly gets better than this. Deep, meaningful and plentiful. You feel a part of a dynamic world.

Plot: solid, considering its open-endedness.

Graphics: the industry was capable of much better graphics at the time, but for a complex RPG it was quite enough.

Music: without the music setting the atmosphere and tension, there would be no Fallout.

Sound: very good sound effects that give your actions a doze of believability.

Personal Slant: as for the answer to the OP question: I only rate games, I played relatively recently, so that nostalgia is not a significant factor in my evaluation. And amongst such RPGs, yes, Fallout is currently the best.

Next stop is Fallout 2 though - a game I never finished.

It took me a while, but just yesterday I finished Fallout 2 for the first time. I didn't realise this game was so big. I'm guessing it took me somewhere between 50 and 80 hours to complete it. And since it's done, I can now compare it to Fallout 1.

Fallout 2 is worse than Fallout 1 in terms of mood. They went way overboard with all the gags and cultural references and in the process they ruined the atmosphere. Though indirectly, it also affects the world quality. It's difficult to appreciate a gloomy post-apocalyptic setting, when every other NPC is a fucking jester.

And that's about it. In all the other aspects, Fallout 2 is on par or better than the first game. Controls & UI are a bit better; the NPC push function is especially appreciated. Fortunately, they also managed to notably improve the AI. This resulted in much better pathfinding and more interesting combat. I must admit, I was rather amazed when I noticed enemies picking up and using stimpaks and weapons of the fallen combatants. It might have been bad luck, but I never saw that in Fallout 1. The sound, music and graphics departments are more or less on the same level, although I believe some animations were slightly refined. Character progression offers more choice due to additional perks although I felt there were way too many skill books in the game. The plot is just serviceable again, but it's longer and more detailed. On the other hand, it seems more linear. The side quests complement the main story arc much better than in the first game. All in all, Fallout 2 scores a little higher for me in this department. And finally choices & consequences... damn.

I didn't know this level of reactivity was possible. There are areas in the game (e.g. New Reno) where almost everything you do matters. Kill a few bartenders and you'll disrupt the balance of powers in the city. Fuck a girl and a mob boss will own your ass. Fuck her without a condom and you'll start a revolution. There are some deep and meaningful C&C in Fallout 1, but they pale in comparison to what they achieved in the sequel. To sum it up, I'll just say I had to reconsider what I believed to be good reactivity after I finished Fallout 2. Nothing I played so far compares (mind you, I didn't play Bloodlines or Deus Ex, and I hear they are praised for C&C).

So yes, despite the ruined atmosphere and somewhat lower world quality, I think Fallout 2 is a better game than its prequel. It's the best RPG and among the top 5 best games I ever played. Next stop: Fallout Tactics (is it worth my time? Can someone please describe what it actually is?)

Final score: instant Codex classic/10

 

[Micormic]

Fallout Tactics (is it worth my time? Can someone please describe what it actually is?)

It's not terrible but not near the level of the first 2 games. Kind of a way way way less complex hybrid of JA2 and the early Fallouts. It still has stats and you level up the same as in Fallout but there's no dialogue or choices minus some minor mission objectives in the game.


Edit- I also forgot to mention it has the same overland map system as fallout but it isn't real open world. New locations are unlocked as you do missions.

 

[Micormic]

tl;dr: fuck you, F2>>>NV.

Yeah, no.
New vegas has faction mechanics, better quests and quest design in general, stronger writing and a much tighter narrative. It may lose in moment to moment gameplay, but it has actual exploration and a more interesting itemization. Better level design, etc.

Yeah, the engine is bad, but NV is better where it counts.

^ Beaner logic

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

I'm replaying Fallout 1 right now for the 1st time in 20 or so years. I'm genuinely surprised at just how much I'm enjoying it. It's a more satisfying experience than any RPG I've played recently.

I'm not using FixIt, so the inventory is definitely a pain, but it's not that big of a deal. I just enjoy looking and listening this beautiful thing.

 

[Deadass]

I'm replaying Fallout 1 right now for the 1st time in 20 or so years. I'm genuinely surprised at just how much I'm enjoying it. It's a more satisfying experience than any RPG I've played recently.

I'm not using FixIt, so the inventory is definitely a pain, but it's not that big of a deal. I just enjoy looking and listening this beautiful thing.

i've got somewhere a zip with all the essential mods with sfall if you want mate

 

[Alex]

I hate time limits. I hate them so much, that I usually avoid games that have them. FO1 is great despite the time limit, not because of it.

I LOVE TIME LIMITS THIS MUCH!

 

[Matticus]

I played through Fallout (Original - GOG) last week with the water chip timer in tact. Embarrassingly, I had only played Fallout 2 up to this point.

I've seen many complaints about the water chip timer but I liked it a lot. I noticed that it was possible to extend the timer in The Hub but I easily found a water chip in time. If I were in charge I'd actually push the time-based elements of the game further rather than remove any. It was awesome/surprising seeing events transpire in certain locations as the months went by, caravan quests that occurred on specific dates, and even surgical procedures that consumed large amounts of in-game time. Too many RPGs feel like the world is constantly waiting for me rather than moving on its own accord.

I've been obsessing over it since. The atmosphere of Necropolis - incredible. Perfect aesthetic both visually and in the ambient soundtrack. Nothing in the game felt pushed over the top; Every piece fit. The top-down perspective (cavalier) obviously still the best way to experience this type of game.

I feel privileged to have worked with a few of the original developers over the years; Talented, modest, great people.

 

[Ninjerk]

I played through Fallout (Original - GOG) last week with the water chip timer in tact. Embarrassingly, I had only played Fallout 2 up to this point.

I've seen many complaints about the water chip timer but I liked it a lot. I noticed that it was possible to extend the timer in The Hub but I easily found a water chip in time. If I were in charge I'd actually push the time-based elements of the game further rather than remove any. It was awesome/surprising seeing events transpire in certain locations as the months went by, caravan quests that occurred on specific dates, and even surgical procedures that consumed large amounts of in-game time. Too many RPGs feel like the world is constantly waiting for me rather than moving on its own accord.

I've been obsessing over it since. The atmosphere of Necropolis - incredible. Perfect aesthetic both visually and in the ambient soundtrack. Nothing in the game felt pushed over the top; Every piece fit. The top-down perspective (cavalier) obviously still the best way to experience this type of game.

I feel privileged to have worked with a few of the original developers over the years; Talented, modest, great people.

Infinitron dev tag?

 

[Infinitron]

I played through Fallout (Original - GOG) last week with the water chip timer in tact. Embarrassingly, I had only played Fallout 2 up to this point.

I've seen many complaints about the water chip timer but I liked it a lot. I noticed that it was possible to extend the timer in The Hub but I easily found a water chip in time. If I were in charge I'd actually push the time-based elements of the game further rather than remove any. It was awesome/surprising seeing events transpire in certain locations as the months went by, caravan quests that occurred on specific dates, and even surgical procedures that consumed large amounts of in-game time. Too many RPGs feel like the world is constantly waiting for me rather than moving on its own accord.

I've been obsessing over it since. The atmosphere of Necropolis - incredible. Perfect aesthetic both visually and in the ambient soundtrack. Nothing in the game felt pushed over the top; Every piece fit. The top-down perspective (cavalier) obviously still the best way to experience this type of game.

I feel privileged to have worked with a few of the original developers over the years; Talented, modest, great people.

Infinitron dev tag?

?? Who is this?

 

[Ninjerk]

who bitch this is*

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

i've got somewhere a zip with all the essential mods with sfall if you want mate

I don't actually want to use mods because the game is so great even without the conveniences. Yes not being able to highlight objects means I have to spend more time looking for them, but on the other hand I'm not rushing through areas; I'm spending more time just luxuriating in the atmosphere. Having to pick items off my companions to sell them is another reason to really listen to the soundtrack.

I totally get why people who've played it a ton would want those additions, but it's been a really long time since I'd played this masterpiece such that I'm enjoying even the charm of its limitations.

I've seen many complaints about the water chip timer but I liked it a lot. I noticed that it was possible to extend the timer in The Hub but I easily found a water chip in time. If I were in charge I'd actually push the time-based elements of the game further rather than remove any. It was awesome/surprising seeing events transpire in certain locations as the months went by, caravan quests that occurred on specific dates, and even surgical procedures that consumed large amounts of in-game time. Too many RPGs feel like the world is constantly waiting for me rather than moving on its own accord.

I totally agree.