Fallout Fallout 1 is the best RPG of all time that stood the test of time

[Kyl Von Kull]

I actually prefer the atmosphere of Fallout 3 to 2, or even 1, as it draws you into a world that has been devastated by nuclear war much more so than ANY other game. I mean ANY other game.

You can make the argument that Fallout 3 doesn't keep to the spirit of Fallout 1 or 2 ( it doesn't, obviously), but it does do one thing better than any other Fallout, or Bethesda game: It creates a world that is believable.

Hear me out....of course the story is garbage...and all Bethesda main narratives are garbage as far as I can tell...

Yes, yes, yes.....the main story of Fallout 3 is complete and absolute garbage. In most rpgs that would be a deal-breaker.

But the vastness of FO3 lets you find all kinds of creepy little human stories in every weird nook and cranny.....that's what I love about it.

Fuck the main story...FO3 shits in your face for following it....get lost..literally get lost in its wastes....it's a glorious slow-burn creep through a great creepy world full of....all sorts of creeps.
You find some of the most effecting human dramas ever told through gaming just by creeping through some dead family's home.

Emerging from the vault into the Wasteland is really amazing...don't say it wasn't beautiful to you...you're lying.

Seeing your first fully rendered Super-Mutant had to have been a great experience...or you're just a old-school curmudgeon because that gets you cool points on here.

Falloout: NV restored proper Fallout story-telling, but that's it. The environments, and the environmental story-telling were sub-par compared to FO:3.

FO:3 - garbage main story/fuck the main story

First, Fallout 3 would be a decent depiction of a post nuclear wasteland IF the game were actually set a few decades after the war. But it’s set 200 years later. The game has a ton of trouble keeping its own timeline straight and that fucks with the atmosphere.

More importantly, you seem to really like Bethesda’s environmental storytelling. Nothing inherently wrong with that. However, there is a ton of tension between creating a game with something “cool” to look at around every corner, and creating a believable and immersive world. You’re saying you love Fallout 3’s post apocalyptic theme park. But for me that hurt the atmosphere because there’s nothing immersive or believable about a theme park. In New Vegas, I felt much more like I was walking through a living, breathing world, whereas 3 felt like one big diorama. It was like the whole world had been on hold for two centuries while waiting for the lone wanderer to leave the vault.

In other words, it’s not just the story. The original Fallouts were all about confronting the problems of a post apocalyptic society. Emphasis on society. But 3 only has two towns of any real size, three if you count the brotherhood base. If the best thing about the game is wandering around the wasteland looking at carefully posed skeletons, color me unimpressed. My biggest problem with 3 upon release was that Bethesda built their settlements the same way they built their landscapes: “hey wouldn’t a town full of vampire cannibals be cool! Hey, wouldn’t a shopping mall full of ghouls be cool! Hey wouldn’t a cave full of kids be cool! Hey wouldn’t a town plagued by superheroes be cool! Hey wouldn’t a town built around an unexploded bomb be cool!” It’s like a series of unconnected vignettes.

In New Vegas, all of the towns are connected. You see the core conflict in the region play out everywhere. The story is part of the world. That’s not just narrative design, it’s also worldbuilding. What you do in one place often affects other places. This is almost entirely absent from 3 where everything is disconnected. You have to go a decent way into the main quest before you meet the Brotherhood and you have to go even further before meeting the Enclave as more than a radio station. The Brotherhood and Megaton might as well exist in different universes. That’s not just a story problem, it’s an atmosphere problem.

And as far as reactivity goes, New Vegas is proof positive that you can include tons of it in this kind of game. I think that’s a better use of resources than landscape design.

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

Tell me about a game where the NPCs react instantly to the killing of another NPC....it sure as fuck isn't Fallout 1(as much as i love it),

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Tell me about a game where the NPCs react instantly to the killing of another NPC....it sure as fuck isn't Fallout 1(as much as i love it),

??? NPCs should turn hostile if you kill a member of the community in front of them unprovoked. Try shooting someone in the Brotherhood bunker, or better yet a kid, and see what happens.

 

[Cael]

Tell me about a game where the NPCs react instantly to the killing of another NPC....it sure as fuck isn't Fallout 1(as much as i love it),

??? NPCs should turn hostile if you kill a member of the community in front of them unprovoked. Try shooting someone in the Brotherhood bunker, or better yet a kid, and see what happens.

Fallout2 has that Childkiller tag. Guess what happens after you get it...

 

[Ninjerk]

I actually prefer the atmosphere of Fallout 3 to 2, or even 1, as it draws you into a world that has been devastated by nuclear war much more so than ANY other game. I mean ANY other game.

You can make the argument that Fallout 3 doesn't keep to the spirit of Fallout 1 or 2 ( it doesn't, obviously), but it does do one thing better than any other Fallout, or Bethesda game: It creates a world that is believable.

Hear me out....of course the story is garbage...and all Bethesda main narratives are garbage as far as I can tell...

Yes, yes, yes.....the main story of Fallout 3 is complete and absolute garbage. In most rpgs that would be a deal-breaker.

But the vastness of FO3 lets you find all kinds of creepy little human stories in every weird nook and cranny.....that's what I love about it.

Fuck the main story...FO3 shits in your face for following it....get lost..literally get lost in its wastes....it's a glorious slow-burn creep through a great creepy world full of....all sorts of creeps.
You find some of the most effecting human dramas ever told through gaming just by creeping through some dead family's home.

Emerging from the vault into the Wasteland is really amazing...don't say it wasn't beautiful to you...you're lying.

Seeing your first fully rendered Super-Mutant had to have been a great experience...or you're just a old-school curmudgeon because that gets you cool points on here.

Falloout: NV restored proper Fallout story-telling, but that's it. The environments, and the environmental story-telling were sub-par compared to FO:3.

FO:3 - garbage main story/fuck the main story

First, Fallout 3 would be a decent depiction of a post nuclear wasteland IF the game were actually set a few decades after the war. But it’s set 200 years later. The game has a ton of trouble keeping its own timeline straight and that fucks with the atmosphere.

More importantly, you seem to really like Bethesda’s environmental storytelling. Nothing inherently wrong with that. However, there is a ton of tension between creating a game with something “cool” to look at around every corner, and creating a believable and immersive world. You’re saying you love Fallout 3’s post apocalyptic theme park. But for me that hurt the atmosphere because there’s nothing immersive or believable about a theme park. In New Vegas, I felt much more like I was walking through a living, breathing world, whereas 3 felt like one big diorama. It was like the whole world had been on hold for two centuries while waiting for the lone wanderer to leave the vault.

In other words, it’s not just the story. The original Fallouts were all about confronting the problems of a post apocalyptic society. Emphasis on society. But 3 only has two towns of any real size, three if you count the brotherhood base. If the best thing about the game is wandering around the wasteland looking at carefully posed skeletons, color me unimpressed. My biggest problem with 3 upon release was that Bethesda built their settlements the same way they built their landscapes: “hey wouldn’t a town full of vampire cannibals be cool! Hey, wouldn’t a shopping mall full of ghouls be cool! Hey wouldn’t a cave full of kids be cool! Hey wouldn’t a town plagued by superheroes be cool! Hey wouldn’t a town built around an unexploded bomb be cool!” It’s like a series of unconnected vignettes.

In New Vegas, all of the towns are connected. You see the core conflict in the region play out everywhere. The story is part of the world. That’s not just narrative design, it’s also worldbuilding. What you do in one place often affects other places. This is almost entirely absent from 3 where everything is disconnected. You have to go a decent way into the main quest before you meet the Brotherhood and you have to go even further before meeting the Enclave as more than a radio station. The Brotherhood and Megaton might as well exist in different universes. That’s not just a story problem, it’s an atmosphere problem.

And as far as reactivity goes, New Vegas is proof positive that you can include tons of it in this kind of game. I think that’s a better use of resources than landscape design.

I'm convinced you're responding to an alt.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Nooooooo, why am I wasting my life like this!?

 

[Cael]

Nooooooo, why am I wasting my life like this!?

It is your... destiny!

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

First, Fallout 3 would be a decent depiction of a post nuclear wasteland IF the game were actually set a few decades after the war. But it’s set 200 years later. The game has a ton of trouble keeping its own timeline straight and that fucks with the atmosphere.

The internal consistency of lore is just not interesting to me at all.

More importantly, you seem to really like Bethesda’s environmental storytelling. Nothing inherently wrong with that. However, there is a ton of tension between creating a game with something “cool” to look at around every corner, and creating a believable and immersive world. You’re saying you love Fallout 3’s post apocalyptic theme park. But for me that hurt the atmosphere because there’s nothing immersive or believable about a theme park. In New Vegas, I felt much more like I was walking through a living, breathing world, whereas 3 felt like one big diorama. It was like the whole world had been on hold for two centuries while waiting for the lone wanderer to leave the vault.

You call FO:3 a theme park, and I found F:NV to be much more so. All of the criticisms you made in that paragraph I would turn right around on your preferred game. Not to be *nyah nyah* but because I genuinely experienced the two games in an apparently opposite way than you.

In other words, it’s not just the story. The original Fallouts were all about confronting the problems of a post apocalyptic society. Emphasis on society. But 3 only has two towns of any real size, three if you count the brotherhood base. If the best thing about the game is wandering around the wasteland looking at carefully posed skeletons, color me unimpressed. My biggest problem with 3 upon release was that Bethesda built their settlements the same way they built their landscapes: “hey wouldn’t a town full of vampire cannibals be cool! Hey, wouldn’t a shopping mall full of ghouls be cool! Hey wouldn’t a cave full of kids be cool! Hey wouldn’t a town plagued by superheroes be cool! Hey wouldn’t a town built around an unexploded bomb be cool!” It’s like a series of unconnected vignettes.

A series of unconnected vignettes I agree with. I just happened to find those vignettes to be the meat of the experience....as well as the carefully posed skeletons that, themselves, told stories that were more interesting and moving than any bit of lore-scrap could convey (i'm not comparing the latter to F:NV...just a trend at the time (and since)).

In New Vegas, all of the towns are connected. You see the core conflict in the region play out everywhere. The story is part of the world. That’s not just narrative design, it’s also worldbuilding. What you do in one place often affects other places. This is almost entirely absent from 3 where everything is disconnected. You have to go a decent way into the main quest before you meet the Brotherhood and you have to go even further before meeting the Enclave as more than a radio station. The Brotherhood and Megaton might as well exist in different universes. That’s not just a story problem, it’s an atmosphere problem.

And as far as reactivity goes, New Vegas is proof positive that you can include tons of it in this kind of game. I think that’s a better use of resources than landscape design.

I don't actually recall my ending to F:NV....at it's the most recent Fallout that I've played to completion. In fact, I don't even remember what the central conflict was....of even if there was one.

That's not just a case of me being a dude who likes to drink and smoke (I can remember the plots of most of the better games I've played), I just don't remember anything at all that stood out about the main story of F:NV. I do remember the various sub-plots of F:2, even though I haven't played it in 20 years. And while I don't remember or give a shit about the main story of FO:3, and it is genuinely not worth remembering (I remember that at least)....there was nothing at all about F:NV's stories or sub-plots that I remember....at all.

Literally the only things I remember about Fallout:NV are me sneaking into Caesar's tent and blowing him up....the legion having nothing to say about that....some Fonzie looking dude....and a really cheesy dumb representation of Las Vegas.....and that's it.

The game made very little impression on me. Whereas FO:3.....while I won't claim it had more absolutely epic monumental moments.....nonethelsess left me with a feeling and look and feel of constant dread that I will never forget.

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

??? NPCs should turn hostile if you kill a member of the community in front of them unprovoked. Try shooting someone in the Brotherhood bunker, or better yet a kid, and see what happens.

When was the last time you played Fallout 1....I've yet to kill an NPC where other NPCs (that weren't already aligned) gave a shit.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

I don't actually recall my ending to F:NV....at it's the most recent Fallout that I've played to completion. In fact, I don't even remember what the central conflict was....of even if there was one.

That's not just a case of me being a dude who likes to drink and smoke (I can remember the plots of most of the better games I've played), I just don't remember anything at all that stood out about the main story of F:NV. I do remember the various sub-plots of F:2, even though I haven't played it in 20 years. And while I don't remember or give a shit about the main story of FO:3, and it is genuinely not worth remembering (I remember that at least)....there was nothing at all about F:NV's stories or sub-plots that I remember....at all.

Literally the only things I remember about Fallout:NV are me sneaking into Caesar's tent and blowing him up....the legion having nothing to say about that....some Fonzie looking dude....and a really cheesy dumb representation of Las Vegas.....and that's it.

The game made very little impression on me. Whereas FO:3.....while I won't claim it had more absolutely epic monumental moments.....nonethelsess left me with a feeling and look and feel of constant dread that I will never forget.

The war between the NCR and Caesar’s Legion, culminating in the big battle at Hoover Dam. That’s the central conflict. You don’t remember the whole town of Nipton being crucified right in front of your eyes? You don’t remember the NCR controlled town that was ghoulified by a Legion dirty bomb attack? You don’t remember Vault 21 (the one based on The Lottery) that actually had better environmental storytelling than anything Bethesda’s done? I think getting wasted may indeed be fucking with your memory.

Edit: how about the big dinosaur statue/building in Novac? Maybe that’s more your speed.

Did you reverse pickpocket Caesar to blow him up? When I killed him like a man, I had some real trouble getting the hell out of his camp.

??? NPCs should turn hostile if you kill a member of the community in front of them unprovoked. Try shooting someone in the Brotherhood bunker, or better yet a kid, and see what happens.

When was the last time you played Fallout 1....I've yet to kill an NPC where other NPCs (that weren't already aligned) gave a shit.

I replayed 1 within the last six months after playing Fallout of Nevada made me nostalgic. If you shoot, stab or punch civilians in the open in front of witnesses, pretty much the whole town should be trying to kill you. It’s actually kind of annoying because everybody on the map needs to take their turn. Which begs the question: have you killed any NPCs that anyone would give a fuck about?

 

[Ninjerk]

I'm telling you, Kyl Von Kull, no one is really that retarded that wouldn't rather spend their time on NeoGAF, RPGWatch, or Kotaku.

 

[aweigh]

You liked Fallout 3?

FUCK YOU

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

I think, generally speaking, the environment in F:NV had so little impact on me that I find the moments I spent in FO:3 more....memorable....even if more non-sensical. It just captivated me more. I suppose I did reverse-pickpocket Caeser and had absolutely no problem doing so. By far the most memorable moment of that game for me was watching his body fly straight upwards with eyes bulging....and then come crashing down. The game did that....I didn't even touch the camera....this was a weird awesome moment of gaming for me. I killed the baddie and the game made sure I saw his death from the most awesome camera view....

I don't know F:NV was broken for me after I killed Caesar.....the Legion had absolutely nothing to do with me....they didn't hunt me, the responded to my questions as if Casesar still lived...

The whole thing seemed boring and blocky and it was a fucking desert....yawn.

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

In contrast....Fallout 3 was incredibly moody and ominous and....just more fun to wander around in.

I'm not a Bethesda fan in general....but I do like a really good walking sim. And that's what FO:3 is for me.

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

Look...you can retard me all you want....that's great.

Fallout 1 is the best in terms of RPG-ness.

Fallout 2 is also great but a little too goofy.

Fallout 3 suffers from trying to incorporate the goofiness of 2 when it should have stuck to the bleakness of its core vision......
I don't give a fuck about what year it takes place in or the fucking nerd-ass continuity of it all.....time-slice continuity is old-school stupid. It's bleak and beautiful in ways that almost no other games can touch. And it feels real (for the most part).

Fallout: NV is broken in so many ways....I tried it 3 different times and found ways to break the fucking lame stories...honestly how the fuck can you stick up for the story-telling in F:NV? It's trash...you're trash....

 

[Black]

Retorted for retadred harvesting.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Yeah... Fallout 3... so bleak... the entire game... is a rollecoaster... of stupid dialogue... and... jokes... so... beauti...ful

Also, obvious mkrfghdflglll alt.

 

[Black Angel]

Posting in Makabb's thread

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

Yeah... Fallout 3... so bleak... the entire game... is a rollecoaster... of stupid dialogue... and... jokes... so... beauti...ful

I apologize if my use of ellipses offends you. I will try to refrain.

What's wrong with a game-world that sucks you into it's atmospheric qualities? Yes those qualities would be better served by a consistent/logical story, but what if you're so engrossed by the look and feel that the tacked-on story is entirely unimportant.

What if a world is less than engrossing because the mandatory checklist of storyline twists do nothing but detract from your enjoyment of the game-world. (We are supposed to be talking about a fully realized game-world after all....not some Taleworlds, railroad shit).

What if the world is designed, ground-> up to be in service to a half-baked barely serviceable, utterly forgettable plot, because the "writers" are a bunch of pseudo-intellectual twats....

Rather than letting the world and its carefully placed vistas and detritus do the showing rather than talking?

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

Look....I'm not going to prove anything. I had more fun with Fallout 3 than I did with Fallout: New Vegas. Currently I'm having more fun with Fallout 1 than....pretty much anything else.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Yeah... Fallout 3... so bleak... the entire game... is a rollecoaster... of stupid dialogue... and... jokes... so... beauti...ful

Also, obvious mkrfghdflglll alt.

Yeah, the ellipses made me wonder for a bit, but you're right.

Fallout: NV is broken in so many ways....I tried it 3 different times and found ways to break the fucking lame stories...honestly how the fuck can you stick up for the story-telling in F:NV? It's trash...you're trash....

You've clearly never played much New Vegas and it sure doesn't sound like you've played much Fallout 1. I'm going to stop feeding the trolls, but before I do, I will leave you with this:

Just in case you're not mfkdggfll, I'll tell you the same thing I told him when he was shitting up threads and generally being a moron. I will bribe whichever admin I need to bribe to trace your IP, then I will find and seduce your mother. Then I will take some consensual video footage of your mom getting boned and share it with you. Just think of it as a beautiful landscape.

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

You've clearly never played much New Vegas and it sure doesn't sound like you've played much Fallout 1. I'm going to stop feeding the trolls, but before I do, I will leave you with this:

Well...I'm on my second play-through of Fallout 1 right now. I'm enjoying the fuck out of it, but if you think the reactivity is on some other kind of level then you haven't played an RPG in the last 10 years at least.

As far as you wanting to fuck my Mom....Dude....she's 71 and has Alzheimer's with sever dementia. Think about that before you make your next statement.

 

[laclongquan]

Fallout 2 is worse than Fallout 1 in terms of mood. They went way overboard with all the gags and cultural references and in the process they ruined the atmosphere. Though indirectly, it also affects the world quality. It's difficult to appreciate a gloomy post-apocalyptic setting, when every other NPC is a fucking jester.

It's not post-apocalyptic so much as into Recovery period. For fuck's sake: it's 70 years after the previous war (Master's War) and the Super Mutant either move out or dying out. The desperate raiders are no more, but now are tool in the hand of politicians (Bishop and the Vice Prez of NCR). People is growing up to the amount that they can sell spare mouths into slavery in prosperous towns like Vault City and Shady Sands. The landless people can now even squat on the remnant of old Vault (15). OVerall they have spare food to feed the labours to work in mine (Redding). Caravans are a network around big towns like VC, SS, New Reno, etc... The Vault dwellers has built up big city in Vault City.

It's not the desperation's world of Fallout1 and thus it's illogical to compare them. The context are different in each one.

 

[Sykar]

Look....I'm not going to prove anything. I had more fun with Fallout 3 than I did with Fallout: New Vegas. Currently I'm having more fun with Fallout 1 than....pretty much anything else.

So you had more fun looking for that middle aged guy than going after the guy who almost killed you and joining one of the 5 potential factions for a variety of outcomes in the end. That in a world that even upon a cursory glance has batshit retarded world building, nonsensical plot device in the water purifier and utterly moronic "moral" choices like blowing up Megaton for the "lulz me so evulz!".

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

So you had more fun looking for that middle aged guy than going after the guy who almost killed you and joining one of the 5 potential factions for a variety of outcomes in the end. That in a world that even upon a cursory glance has batshit retarded world building, nonsensical plot device in the water purifier and utterly moronic "moral" choices like blowing up Megaton for the "lulz me so evulz!".

I had more of an engaging, engrossing time in the world where I didn't give a rat's ass about the plot, but nonetheless found poignant story moments being shown rather than told around almost every corner.

New Vegas had what?....some fonzie guy and Wayne Newton and some endless fucking desert?