Fallout Fallout 1 is the best RPG of all time that stood the test of time

[Lilura]

Lots of people own crap they don't like or play. Some people are gifted the crap by friends and family. Bethesda have aggressive marketing campaigns that result in saturation. It's no surprise.

Baby's First RPG is their gateway to more stuff that they might also enjoy. New players have to start somewhere.

New players can start anywhere. I recommend Fallout.

Judging by the last two big Codex polls, a lot of folks here disagree.

But of course. You can be pleased with the influence you have exerted on the 'Dex.

 

[Roguey]

New players can start anywhere. I recommend Fallout.

It's not the 80s, 90s, or even the 00s anymore. Young people who have never known the 20th century aren't going to start their experience with western role playing games with Fallout from 1997 (unless they have an insistent parent).

 

[KateMicucci]

I spent a long time playing Wasteland 1, but never liked Fallout 1, too bee honeste. Maybe cuz my comp wasn't good enough to play fallout 1 when it first came out and I had to wait until years later.

 

[Fairfax]

What happened to CryEngine? It had bad netcode, that much I know, but is it actually dead or just in the process of changing hands?

It's not dead, it's just significant less popular than UE4 and Unity. It's considered less attractive due to the poor documentation, limited support compared to UE4, small community, more complicated tools, among other things. Also, Crytek recently had financial issues and lost a lot of talent to Amazon and CIG (Star Citizen). CryEngine can achieve more impressive visuals, but for most developers that's not enough. CryEngine games are also much more demanding than UE4 even on low settings, which harms the experience for most players.

Overall the industry is in a rough spot when it comes to engines. Proprietary engines are way too expensive and hard even for the biggest studios (see EA with Frostbite). UE4 is worse than UE3 in some aspects, such as input lag and loading times. Unity is pure rubbish.
The world needs Source 2.

 

[Jack Of Owls]

Fallout 1 is the best computer RPG of all time. I only wish I didn't play it like a complete psychopath that first time, murdering practically everyone I came across. Seems a waste for such a nuanced game. In my second play-through, I wanted to ironman it and I attempted to play as a woman... and was promptly killed by the first creature I came across - a single radscorpion - due to my much lower upper body strength. I think this game keeps tabs on karma.

 

[Lilura]

It's not the 80s, 90s, or even the 00s anymore. Young people who have never known the 20th century aren't going to start their experience with western role playing games with Fallout from 1997 (unless they have an insistent parent).

I don't really care what young people are conditioned to play/forced to play due to expert marketing/lack of diversity in the current gen; I'm old and happy with the old stuff.

You might have noticed that I rarely post in Unity or current gen release threads/news threads.

EDIT - To expand a bit, I don't deign to concertedly troll against Unity/current gen for not matching Renaissance greats because the former are utterly beneath contempt. I looked into the so-called "Kickstarter Renaissance", commentated on three of them, and regretted wasting my time. I won't make that mistake again; life's just too short.

As an old person, I'm concerned with two things in this sphere: keeping the narratives alive for original incarnations of Renaissance greats, and defending Fallout and Troika's RPGs against unfair criticism leveled at them by ignoramuses. It's hardly a lofty goal in the grand scheme of things, but it's a fun hobby and I get off on it.

 

[Lhynn]

tl;dr: fuck you, F2>>>NV.

Yeah, no.
New vegas has faction mechanics, better quests and quest design in general, stronger writing and a much tighter narrative. It may lose in moment to moment gameplay, but it has actual exploration and a more interesting itemization. Better level design, etc.

Yeah, the engine is bad, but NV is better where it counts.

 

[Master]

NV faction system where you can wipe an entire NCR camp for the Legion and their response is "we don't know if we can trust you” because you stole some shit from them earlier. Or you kill two NCR soldiers in a house where no one can see you but somehow the entire faction knows what you did. And all they say anyway is "don't do that again" because you helped them earlier. What a joke.

 

[Makabb]

tl;dr: fuck you, F2>>>NV.

Better level design, etc..

open world game 'better level design'

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

It's not the 80s, 90s, or even the 00s anymore. Young people who have never known the 20th century aren't going to start their experience with western role playing games with Fallout from 1997 (unless they have an insistent parent).

I don't really care what young people are conditioned to play/forced to play due to expert marketing/lack of diversity in the current gen; I'm old and happy with the old stuff.

You might have noticed that I rarely post in Unity or current gen release threads/news threads.

EDIT - To expand a bit, I don't deign to concertedly troll against Unity/current gen for not matching Renaissance greats because the former are utterly beneath contempt. I looked into the so-called "Kickstarter Renaissance", commentated on three of them, and regretted wasting my time. I won't make that mistake again; life's just too short.

As an old person, I'm concerned with two things in this sphere: keeping the narratives alive for original incarnations of Renaissance greats, and defending Fallout and Troika's RPGs against unfair criticism leveled at them by ignoramuses. It's hardly a lofty goal in the grand scheme of things, but it's a fun hobby and I get off on it.

Alas, some of us crave novelty. Playing the same games over and over repeatedly, without a decent span of time in between each playthrough to forget some of the content, makes me want to kill myself. At some point it stops being enjoyable and becomes an existential crisis. I’m very jealous of your ability to replay the same game twenty times and continue enjoying it.

But for most of us that’s not possible. Did you ever eat the same thing for lunch every day as a kid and then one day the taste of it made you retch? For me it was peanut butter. I think that’s a good analogy.

I might like a book or a game or a movie more on the second or third go-round, but eventually we reach a point of diminishing returns.

So for those of us who need new content, it’s important to have a thriving RPG industry. Which is why it’s important to get the children hooked on the genre or else there will be no money in it and thus no new attempts at making what could maybe turn out to be a modern masterpiece.

In short, Roguey’s right and I think on some level you agree (why else devote so much time to NWN?).

 

[Lilura]

Yep, I was able to play Fallout, Jagged Alliance 2, ToEE, BG blahblahblah over a dozen times each. A lot more if you add in partial runs. Lots of people like me.

Underrail? Once. Tyranny? Once. TToN? Not even once.

NWN is an old game. Sticking with one engine is different from hankering after everything that's new. I saw your post in the Roqua thread about liking certain "Kickstarter Renaissance" RPGs. Lost a bit of respect, tbqh. But you are still a pretty cool guy, so it's no biggie.

 

[Master]

Yes... we must get the children hooked on Bethesda, so that a new RPG Renessaince can begin. I love it! When can we start?
Ah to think that all this time IGN, Gamespot and all the other braindead sites were doing God's work... What a fool I was!

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Yep, I was able to play Fallout, Jagged Alliance 2, ToEE, BG blahblahblah over a dozen times each. A lot more if you add in partial runs. Lots of people like me.

Underrail? Once. Tyranny? Once. TToN? Not even once.

NWN is an old game. Sticking with one engine is different from hankering after everything that's new. I saw your post in the Roqua thread about liking certain "Kickstarter Renaissance" RPGs. Lost a bit of respect, tbqh. But you are still a pretty cool guy, so it's no biggie.

None of the new ones hold up versus the GOAT RPGs of the late 90s early 2000s, but many of them are good enough for me. Lots of forgettable shit came out during the old days, too. We’ll never get new classics if we don’t encourage the developers who are at least trying to move in the right direction.

What can I say, maybe it’s my inner manic depressive but I put a premium on new experiences. It’s like drug addiction; eventually you build up a tolerance to the old stuff and need to move on to something new. Perhaps I took Heraclitus too literally, but I can’t seem to walk through the same river twice, at least not within five or six years.

We clearly are motivated by very different neuroses though.

Oh, and I deliberately left out Underrail from the catechism of saint Roqua because it put me to sleep. TTON is much more enjoyable when approached as the world’s longest short story collection. Tyranny, I will admit, is really for a certain type of writing-fag. But fuck, Obsidian is doing the lord’s work.

Re: NWN I think I was referring to it in terms of luring the kids in with baby’s first RPG.

PS. You owe me some playwrights—did you mean Shakespeare, Marlowe, Schiller, Voltaire, Euripides, somebody else? I loved Marlowe’s Tamerlane but then I found passages from Tamerlane’s memoirs and they were a revelation.

Yes... we must get the children hooked on Bethesda, so that a new RPG Renessaince can begin. I love it! When can we start?
Ah to think that all this time IGN, Gamespot and all the other braindead sites were doing God's work... What a fool I was!

The children are already hooked on Bethesda; we need transitional games that will help bring them closer to the good stuff.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Yep, I was able to play Fallout, Jagged Alliance 2, ToEE, BG blahblahblah over a dozen times each. A lot more if you add in partial runs. Lots of people like me.

Underrail? Once. Tyranny? Once. TToN? Not even once.

NWN is an old game. Sticking with one engine is different from hankering after everything that's new. I saw your post in the Roqua thread about liking certain "Kickstarter Renaissance" RPGs. Lost a bit of respect, tbqh. But you are still a pretty cool guy, so it's no biggie.

I'd probably play through underrail again if the dev stopped being an autistic fuck about having the character move like a snail.
Having to use cheatengine just to play is annoying.

 

[Lilura]

[We’ll never get new classics if we don’t encourage the developers who are at least trying to move in the right direction.

I can honestly say that it wouldn't bother me if they never ended up beating Fallout. I just don't give a flying fuck about the future of the genre, only the legacy of the era I grew up in. Thus, my commentary.

Obsidian are jokers, imho. Wannabes. I have no need of anything of theirs post-MotB/SoZ. Well, maybe I'll back get into Alpha Protocol when I'm getting desperate (and 2010 is where my treatment range ends).

I sort of doubt you have exhausted what the Renaissance era has to offer (250+ RPGs). Sure, most of it's probably shit but I'm hoping for a few more surprises before I get too old to care. Also, I sort of doubt you have exhausted all the build/reactivity in just the greats. That's not meant to sound arrogant or unfriendly: I haven't.

As for poets, don't really want to get into an off-topic back-and-forth about them. Sure, Shakespeare. Goethe, too. Milton. Byron. Blake. Re. Voltaire (and Rousseau), I've only read their prose (Candide, Emile) and letters (which are great reads).

I'd probably play through underrail again if the dev stopped being an autistic fuck about having the character move like a snail.
Having to use cheatengine just to play is annoying.

That was my biggest criticism, yeah.

 

[JarlFrank]

Fallout 1 is the best computer RPG of all time.

But then Arcanum came along and beat it in pretty much every aspect except combat.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

I sort of doubt you have exhausted what the Renaissance era has to offer (250+ RPGs). Sure, most of it's probably shit but I'm hoping for a few more surprises before I get too old to care. Also, I sort of doubt you have exhausted all the build/reactivity in just the greats. That's not meant to sound arrogant or unfriendly: I haven't.

It doesn't sound arrogant, but it does sound exhausting. I have no desire to squeeze every drop of content/gameplay out of these games like they're lemons going into a nice white wine reduction sauce. I have the whole rest of my life to replay the greats, I might as well space them out over the years so that playing them still feels enjoyable and not excessively repetitive. Without the joy of discovery it's just much less fun (and yes I realize there are still things left to discover, but we're talking footnotes worth of discovery rather than whole new chapters worth). Give me new content or give me death.

I certainly haven't played everything from the late '90s and early '00s, but why would anyone want to play the hundred worst RPGs of the renaissance era over the best games of the modern period? Obsidian has never made an RPG worse than Return to Krondor or Betrayal in Antara, just to name two clunkers from the renaissance off the top of my head.

I'm not trying to evangelize and I do get where you're coming from. My taste in music ossified in college and since then the only new stuff I've been able to appreciate is from artists I listened to in my early 20s. Thank christ PJ Harvey is still a great songwriter or I would be SOL.

 

[CryptRat]

Obsidian has never made an RPG worse than Return to Krondor

I couldn't disagree more.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Obsidian has never made an RPG worse than Return to Krondor

I couldn't disagree more.

Really? Not the excellent Betrayal at Krondor, but the half-baked sequel?? It was such a goddamn disappointment. I guess I can see where you're coming from if you care about turn-based uber alles, but personally, yuck. The ok combat does not cancel out the extremely subpar everything else. Or I guess you might just really dislike Obsidian.

 

[CryptRat]

I guess I can see where you're coming from if you care about turn-based uber alles[...]Or I guess you might just really dislike Obsidian.

Yes, this and that.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Really, name the ones that have sold better than Fallout 4 and Skyrim.

Well I guess the easy answer to that would be GTA5 ever since they added in that FPS option. Although you seem to be confusing a games sales (which you're asking about) with the quality of the game. (Which I was talking about)

Gamebryo is dead, asking Bethesda if they could use Bethbryo would be incredibly odd. They're making do with Unity and Unreal. The tools they've created themselves are good enough for what they want to do.

There have been games made in Gamebryo in the seven years since FNV. People were still using Gamebryo when Obsidian started development on their Unity game in 2012. There was apparently a whole new version of Gamebryo in 2014.

 

[Roguey]

Although you seem to be confusing a games sales (which you're asking about) with the quality of the game. (Which I was talking about)

As far as Bethesda is concerned, they're one and the same.

There have been games made in Gamebryo in the seven years since FNV. People were still using Gamebryo when Obsidian started development on their Unity game in 2012. There was apparently a whole new version of Gamebryo in 2014.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamebryo

In December 2010, Korea-based Gamebase Co., Ltd., a longtime partner of Emergent, finalized the acquisition of Emergent assets and technology, and established a newly capitalized U.S. company, Gamebase USA.[4] Gamebase USA is based in the Research Triangle Park region of North Carolina and is focused on continual development of the Gamebryo game engine. The newest version, Gamebryo 4.0, was introduced in March 2012.

Dead engine is dead. Back then, Obsidian had their own engne, Onyx, which they spent a lot of time and money on. It would have been absurd to use another after investing so much in their own. (additionally, Project Eternity started in 2013)

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

As far as Bethesda is concerned, they're one and the same.

As far as me the consumer is concerned they aren't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamebryo

In December 2010, Korea-based Gamebase Co., Ltd., a longtime partner of Emergent, finalized the acquisition of Emergent assets and technology, and established a newly capitalized U.S. company, Gamebase USA.[4] Gamebase USA is based in the Research Triangle Park region of North Carolina and is focused on continual development of the Gamebryo game engine. The newest version, Gamebryo 4.0, was introduced in March 2012.​

Dead engine is dead. Back then, Obsidian had their own engne, Onyx, which they spent a lot of time and money on. It would have been absurd to use another after investing so much in their own. (additionally, Project Eternity started in 2013)

I'm sure you know this from looking at that Wikipedia page you linked to and posted a bit from, but it list games from 2015 on it.

The Project Eternity Kickstarter went up in 2012, as well as them announcing they were using Unity.

 

[Roguey]

As far as me the consumer is concerned they aren't.

Your opinion is a drop in the ocean when it comes to the 30 million who bought Skyrim.

I'm sure you know this from looking at that Wikipedia page you linked to and posted a bit from, but it list games from 2015 on it.

Because games start development years in advance. When it became obvious Gamebryo was dead, people stopped bothering with it.

The Project Eternity Kickstarter went up in 2012, as well as them announcing they were using Unity.

My mistake. Regardless, choosing Unity was certainly the better call considering it's still supported whereas Gamebryo hasn't been for years.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

As far as me the consumer is concerned they aren't.

Your opinion is a drop in the ocean when it comes to the 30 million who bought Skyrim.

I'm sure for most of those consumers the quality of the game isn't tied up in how many people bought it. Now how many people think it's actually good or bad based on the game itself is a different matter, but this "it's a good game because it sold well" bullshit you're going on about is fucking stupid. You want to take that outlook then clearly it's totally shit because it doesn't come near the sales of openworld games like Gta and Red Dead, or of other FPS games like Call of Duty.

I'm sure you know this from looking at that Wikipedia page you linked to and posted a bit from, but it list games from 2015 on it.

Because games start development years in advance. When it became obvious Gamebryo was dead, people stopped bothering with it.

The Project Eternity Kickstarter went up in 2012, as well as them announcing they were using Unity.

My mistake. Regardless, choosing Unity was certainly the better call considering it's still supported whereas Gamebryo hasn't been for years.

So you're saying it become obvious Gamebryo was dead the very same year they released a new version of it? Some would say a newer version of an engine shows the company is still in that business.