Fallout 2 was always incline

[Ryan muller]

I'm pretty sure what you see in Fallout isn't what he was when he moved. Even if he was the blob you see in Fallout, he was only in the Cathedral for ten years before you blow him up. He was around for decades before that, building up his army. Supposedly he found Mariposa in 2102 and got mutated, and got blown up in 2162. So, he would have had supermutants by then to carry him. Possibly even Nightkin at that point.

i can totally see the mutants moving him, what i cant see however, is a large group of mutants travelling the desert with a bunch of stuff from an old military base + a mutated demonic creature and nobody seeing him, BoS for example should be already around at that point. But everybody seems oblivious to the mutants before the incident in necropolis. obviously, the BoS did found them before, however, they seem to know very little about it (save vree). most other places know shit about them

You can see the water machinery near their headquarters, with the tanks that store the fresh water, including the giant tank beyond the three smaller ones. How does it work? Don't know, but it's there. Could be a well pump with a Water Chip.

which means they boiled the water to make it clean, why V13 didnt do that? what for all the other towns that have wells in their territory such as Boneyard? do they also boil it for comsumption?

are you getting the point? theres always things that you can ask yourself and the game might as well never answer. if the game does a good job of explaining most of its elements and go as far as Fo2 does to explain even minor details regarding trade routes, this is a great job with its worldbuilding.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

which means they boiled the water to make it clean, why V13 didnt do that?

I said "well pump with a Water Chip". The "Water Chip" being the important thing there.

are you getting the point? theres always things that you can ask yourself and the game might as well never answer.

Are you? While Fallout may not have addressed power, a good chunk of the settlements did show how they met at least some of their needs. New Reno is a bit over the top in that you have four gangs, most with casinos, running a large settlement that only has commercial properties with few exceptions, that couldn't exist without a large amount of tourism in the wasteland. The more gangs you add, the sillier it gets.

 

[NecroLord]

which means they boiled the water to make it clean, why V13 didnt do that?

I said "well pump with a Water Chip". The "Water Chip" being the important thing there.

are you getting the point? theres always things that you can ask yourself and the game might as well never answer.

Are you? While Fallout may not have addressed power, a good chunk of the settlements did show how they met at least some of their needs. New Reno is a bit over the top in that you have four gangs, most with casinos, running a large settlement that only has commercial properties with few exceptions, that couldn't exist without a large amount of tourism in the wasteland. The more gangs you add, the sillier it gets.

New Reno is successful because it cathers to your every vice, hence the tourism and influence it has.
It shows that even though Humanity nearly destroyed itself in a Nuclear War, it still manages to degrade itself and corrupt others...
That's rather grimdark.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

hence the tourism

The tourism being the problem. Like I said, the closest town to it is Broken Hills, and they don't seem to be going there, but they would have some money since they have their mine. Of course, what a fusion powered world would need uranium for is questionable, but I have a feeling that the developers on all the Fallout games have a rather low science skill. The next closest town is Redding, also a mining town which might have money, but that's a three day walk in modern times.

The big problem with that walk is that unlike modern times, you're way more likely to run in to raiders in Fallout 2. Even more likely knowing that there's no ATMs and checkbooks, so you're carrying those gold coins in sacks. And a small group of miners on vacation doing their three day walk to New Reno would be easy pickin's compared to a caravan. The Maltese Falcon in The Hub makes sense because it's a commercial town that makes sense. You have the Water Merchants there, you have Crimson Caravan there, and so on. It's the centralized mecca of commerce in Fallout. It doesn't even need tourists because of the caravan companies alone. You take all the settlements in Fallout, multiply them by two, then multiply that by 10 and that's how many employees the two largest commercial businesses would have minimum just to trade around the region.

 

[Ryan muller]

I said "well pump with a Water Chip". The "Water Chip" being the important thing there.

Unlikely, if that was the case they would talk about it when asked about such, we also would have the option to sabotage the machine and take the water chip.

Are you? While Fallout may not have addressed power, a good chunk of the settlements did show how they met at least some of their needs. New Reno is a bit over the top in that you have four gangs, most with casinos, running a large settlement that only has commercial properties with few exceptions, that couldn't exist without a large amount of tourism in the wasteland. The more gangs you add, the sillier it gets.

Again, the place quite literally is only a thing because of the tourism. Most people in there are implied to be tourists who lost all their money or got addicted to jet.

The problem you have with it seem to be how much of a large walk it is to even reach that place, specially due to raiders. However, atleast by implication, rangers are all over the place helping caravans with that problem (as well as dealing with raiders and slavers), obviously some caravans are attacked and we can see that in-game, but we can see a bunch of caravans sucessfully crossing the roads either, since a bunch of the encounters between NCR and New reno and Redding-> Reno are Caravans. Better yet, we can take caravans to New reno in redding and they seem to go there quite regularly. (3 times by month if im not mistaken)

 

[NecroLord]

hence the tourism

The tourism being the problem. Like I said, the closest town to it is Broken Hills, and they don't seem to be going there, but they would have some money since they have their mine. Of course, what a fusion powered world would need uranium for is questionable, but I have a feeling that the developers on all the Fallout games have a rather low science skill. The next closest town is Redding, also a mining town which might have money, but that's a three day walk in modern times.

The big problem with that walk is that unlike modern times, you're way more likely to run in to raiders in Fallout 2. Even more likely knowing that there's no ATMs and checkbooks, so you're carrying those gold coins in sacks. And a small group of miners on vacation doing their three day walk to New Reno would be easy pickin's compared to a caravan. The Maltese Falcon in The Hub makes sense because it's a commercial town that makes sense. You have the Water Merchants there, you have Crimson Caravan there, and so on. It's the centralized mecca of commerce in Fallout. It doesn't even need tourists because of the caravan companies alone. You take all the settlements in Fallout, multiply them by two, then multiply that by 10 and that's how many employees the two largest commercial businesses would have minimum just to trade around the region.

I think we are REALLY overthinking this and lose sight of the "rule of cool"...

 

[Laz Sundays]

Reno is a city like any other. How do people end up there? They're either born there or came there. What do they eat?? What do people in our world's cities fucking eat! They're not called cities cause they have fucking farms everywhere. They order shit via goddamn caravans. You ain't gonna see a fucking Brahmin farm in the middle of a goddamn city so get the fuck out with questioning the realism of it. It's pretty solid, certainly solid enough to buy it.

 

[Ryan muller]

hence the tourism

The tourism being the problem. Like I said, the closest town to it is Broken Hills, and they don't seem to be going there, but they would have some money since they have their mine. Of course, what a fusion powered world would need uranium for is questionable, but I have a feeling that the developers on all the Fallout games have a rather low science skill. The next closest town is Redding, also a mining town which might have money, but that's a three day walk in modern times.

The big problem with that walk is that unlike modern times, you're way more likely to run in to raiders in Fallout 2. Even more likely knowing that there's no ATMs and checkbooks, so you're carrying those gold coins in sacks. And a small group of miners on vacation doing their three day walk to New Reno would be easy pickin's compared to a caravan. The Maltese Falcon in The Hub makes sense because it's a commercial town that makes sense. You have the Water Merchants there, you have Crimson Caravan there, and so on. It's the centralized mecca of commerce in Fallout. It doesn't even need tourists because of the caravan companies alone. You take all the settlements in Fallout, multiply them by two, then multiply that by 10 and that's how many employees the two largest commercial businesses would have minimum just to trade around the region.

I think we are REALLY overthinking this and lose sight of the "rule of cool"...

just to add to that, i dont think its wrong to question this stuff, its just that if we do that to Fo1 its quite easy to find a bunch of elements that has a lack of explanation either, such as the mentioned gun runners, which the more you think, the more retarded it sounds like.

both games have solid worldbuilding tho. its just that its pretty much impossible to think about EVERY single element present in a gaming universe, so if the player stop and start to get really in depth with those stuff, its easier to notice things that arent as cohesive as the rest.

Main difference is that Fo1 implies things more than it tells us, while Fo2 tells us how economy, society organizations and a bunch of other stuff work.

 

[laclongquan]

New Reno tourism: who would go there on a pretty regular schedule?

1. The brahmin drivers, not just the yearly brahmin drives, but the caravans that go through Reno. They was weeks walking through wilderness, so they have money to service their intense needs. There's intentional design having Kitty's brothel just the 1st thing you met when you left a caravan.

2. The Den slavers that travel there to sell their slaves.

3. The farmers that sell crops to the Wrights. They have a full bootlegging operation there: lots of alcohol = lots of crops consumed. And seeing they dont have warehouse full of crops, let's assume the farmers go there regularly to sell, instead of yearly.

4. The Bishop raiders. They went to raid Vault City, but probabbly not just VC, but other smaller communities and farms too. So after run like that, they go back to NR, sell their loots, and spend their gains.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Sigh. Random jokes and cultural references were in the series from day 1. If you don't like it then it's fine, but stop doing weird mental gymnastics on why wacky shit is fine in F1/NV, but completely unacceptable in F2.

Personally I don't care for the references part, since I generally see 4th wall breaking as a text-book example of "high iq" humor for low iq people. But the overall humorous parts in F1-2 are p cool, I still like some of the dialogues even now, on my lostthefuckingcount-nth replay.

Anyway, jokes are not F2's problem. The problem is that the southern part, other than NCR and V15, is rushed, unfinished and largely just plain poo-poo when it comes to content. And it's not like NCR is great, either, it's just that it plays an important part in wrapping up the power struggle arc, which is the best part of F2 and always felt like its main plot to me. And it's also another example of nicely showing how the wasteland evolved and improved over time, which is something that following games dropped the ball so hard on.

But before you move south, F2 is great and yes, in lots of important aspects better than F1. It's not like it's some stark difference, though, both games are amazing.

 

[NecroLord]

New Reno tourism: who would go there on a pretty regular schedule?

Adventurers with a lot of money and loot looking for some fun?

 

[laclongquan]

New Reno tourism: who would go there on a pretty regular schedule?

Adventurers with a lot of money and loot looking for some fun?

The problem of adventurers to Reno is UNCERTAINTY. you dont know when they would visit, how much money they would spend. And this group can be listed under Bishop raiders.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

3. The farmers that sell crops to the Wrights. They have a full bootlegging operation there: lots of alcohol = lots of crops consumed. And seeing they dont have warehouse full of crops, let's assume the farmers go there regularly to sell, instead of yearly.

The Wrights would have to have a bunch of things off the map in order to run their business. I'm not even sure they don't have their own crops, honestly. They'd also need some way of manufacturing their bottles since you can't just rely on returned bottles and scavenging bottles 160 years after the Great War. Water is also a problem, so we're not sure if they have some system like the Water Merchants in The Hub or if they get their water from those merchants, or even if the Water Merchants are still up and running at that point. You'll also need a means of taking those crops and refining it to a state where the biological material can be fermented, like a mill. You'd also need tanks to store the mix while it's fermenting, one for each batch since we're talking about a timed process.

As far as your point on slaves from The Den, the Wright Family would be the only group that I would think would need slaves since their operation would require a large amount of manpower. The problem with that would be the Wrights tend to shy away from unethical things like prostitution, gambling, and drugs so it's questionable that they'd have slaves.

4. The Bishop raiders. They went to raid Vault City, but probabbly not just VC, but other smaller communities and farms too. So after run like that, they go back to NR, sell their loots, and spend their gains.

This might help the Bishops, but I can't see the Bishops wanting their men spending that money outside of their own establishments. Furthermore, the raiders that the Bishops hire are to get Vault City to join the NCR. I'm not sure they qualify as actual raiders, but more like a bunch of mercenary types that dress up like raiders in order to influence Vault City. I wouldn't think they'd go after anything other than Vault City since they're paid for just Vault City.

The problem of adventurers to Reno is UNCERTAINTY. you dont know when they would visit, how much money they would spend.

The problem with adventurers is how many of them there probably are.

 

[NecroLord]

The problem with adventurers is how many of them there probably are.

Likely not that many successful ones.
At least not on the same level as you
(The Chosen) and your potential companions.
The Wasteland is a rough place.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Likely not that many successful ones.
At least not on the same level as you

I would think the closest you'd come to an adventurer with any decent numbers in the Wasteland would be raiders, and you slaughter them wholesale. Maybe town guards, and I doubt they do much in the way of traveling.

When you think of playing Fallout 2 through the first time, how many times did you venture in to some area that you weren't ready to go there? You get to reload that older save at that point. The Toxic Caves comes to mind as an area you might get in to where you're likely to be underlevel because of that Sentry Bot. Hell, the random encounters around New Reno can be pretty bad at lower levels.

 

[NecroLord]

Likely not that many successful ones.
At least not on the same level as you

I would think the closest you'd come to an adventurer with any decent numbers in the Wasteland would be raiders, and you slaughter them wholesale. Maybe town guards, and I doubt they do much in the way of traveling.

When you think of playing Fallout 2 through the first time, how many times did you venture in to some area that you weren't ready to go there? You get to reload that older save at that point. The Toxic Caves comes to mind as an area you might get in to where you're likely to be underlevel because of that Sentry Bot. Hell, the random encounters around New Reno can be pretty bad at lower levels.

You need an Electronic Lockpick to access the second level of the Toxic Caves, but you have to deal with (or avoid) the Sentry Bot.
There's some awesome loot to be had there, with the highlights being the Bozar and Combat Armor MK 2.

 

[laclongquan]

Wrights dont have ANY drive to have slaves. Let me remind you that back in the days, US bootleggers dont have slaves meddling with their stills. If nothing else, it's too goddamn easy for slaves to ruin things, either intentionally or not. Either stick more wood into the ovens, or banging the crate of bottles too hard...

Wright's farms might have slaves, but that is unrelated to what we are talking, because slaves in farm outside of New Reno city is not what we give two bottlecaps about.

As for Bishop's raiders. The problem with "adventurers" is their impossible to control feature. In campaign they may accept disciplines, because that relate to mission's success (and how many loot they would have) and their own mortality. But in safe city why the nine hell would they listen to Bishop's yapping about not spending outside of their casino? You are kidding~ Bishop people might want that, but the adventurers would deign to listen to them? Yeah, two words for you: company store.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Wright's farms might have slaves, but that is unrelated to what we are talking

Farms were what I was talking about, and it would be related since the original premise was that slavers from the Den would gamble when they were in New Reno to sell slaves.

But in safe city why the nine hell would they listen to Bishop's yapping about not spending outside of their casino? You are kidding~

We're essentially talking about guns for hire here. Which means they can be fired as well. Furthermore, since they're guns for hire, "firing" can involve getting shot.

 

[NecroLord]

I don't think Wrights have and deal in slaves.
They are the most "straight" of the New Reno families, a lot more moral and honorable.
Madam Wright herself is quite devout (she opposes alcohol, hell, you can even convince her to bust up her husband's alcohol stills!).

 

[laclongquan]

But in safe city why the nine hell would they listen to Bishop's yapping about not spending outside of their casino? You are kidding~

We're essentially talking about guns for hire here. Which means they can be fired as well. Furthermore, since they're guns for hire, "firing" can involve getting shot.

Now, let's assume you are playing a gun for hire working for Bishop, just fresh off a raiding action. After selling loots, and gauging your purse would be pretty heavy, your dick are rockhard, and you are looking forward to test the water of the latest Golden Globes actress. Some Bishop flunkie say you are NOT to grace Global actresses or any other place outside of Miss Kitty. What would you do?
1. Listen to that flunkie like a dog that you are obviously are.
2. Fuck you, I will stick my dick where I please.

Make your choice!

 

[Ryan muller]

As far as your point on slaves from The Den, the Wright Family would be the only group that I would think would need slaves since their operation would require a large amount of manpower.

Its literally flat out said in the game that mordinos use slaves, its shown in their fabric, myron talk about it, mr mordino talk about it. How did you miss it?

 

[Ryan muller]

Also, the easiest way of becoming a made man with mordinos is being a slaver since you get positive reaction with mr mordino, he not only respects the slaver guild, but the requirements to become a made man for them are reduced if you are one.

Slavery being business is 100℅ a thing with this family.

 

[Ryan muller]

I don't think Wrights have and deal in slaves.
They are the most "straight" of the New Reno families, a lot more moral and honorable.
Madam Wright herself is quite devout (she opposes alcohol, hell, you can even convince her to bust up her husband's alcohol stills!).

They really dont. Only mordinos use slaves out of the 4 families, arguably Bishops but its vaguely implied

Mordinos are 100℅ confirmed.

 

[Ryan muller]

I don't think Wrights have and deal in slaves.
They are the most "straight" of the New Reno families, a lot more moral and honorable.
Madam Wright herself is quite devout (she opposes alcohol, hell, you can even convince her to bust up her husband's alcohol stills!).

Actually, forget about it. I went to check and apparently the people running Wrights's alcohol stills are called "slaves", Eythril seem to be upset about this alongside the lies of her husband too.

So both mr wright and the mordinos have slaves.

I did recall the mordinos having them, i did not recall wrights using their services.

https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/New_Reno_slave

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Its literally flat out said in the game that mordinos use slaves, its shown in their fabric, myron talk about it, mr mordino talk about it. How did you miss it?

That's right. They use slaves to test Jet. I'd forgotten about that.