Fallout 4 Pre-Announcement Bullshit Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Lemming42]

There was a thread ages ago where someone (I think it was Roguey) said that if you turn the gore and unique death animations off for Fo1/2, you realize the combat isn't as good as you thought it was.

The sound effects and animations really do go a long way to making the combat seem way cooler than it actually was.

 

[Lhynn]

Seems like a prerequisite for a good cRPG is that it must have bad combat.

JA2

Not an RPG.

It's not?

No.

And am arguing RPG elements can make combat better, not trying to get us into "what is an RPG".
Also Knights of the Chalice.

 

[DragoFireheart]

There was a thread ages ago where someone (I think it was Roguey) said that if you turn the gore and unique death animations off for Fo1/2, you realize the combat isn't as good as you thought it was.

The sound effects and animations really do go a long way to making the combat seem way cooler than it actually was.

Probably one of the few things that made New Vegas combat tolerable. Watching infidel heads explode never gets boring.

 

[shihonage]

Fallout New Vegas combat also sucks.

So does the combat in Fallout, Fallout 2, Planescape: Torment, and Arcanum

Seems like a prerequisite for a good cRPG is that it must have bad combat.

Yeah yeah let's pretend Fallout 1/2 combat is the same exact quality as PS:T, Arcanum and FO:NV.

Combat in Fallout 1 and 2 was not good. Sorry to burst your bubble.

For the longest time Fallout combat was regarded as "serviceable mediocrity", while PS:T and Arcanum combat was regarded as "weak". It is also a fact that Gamebryo combat is "complete ass". Putting them all in the same room is revisionist history, but then again it's become popular on the Codex lately to diss Fallout, despite nothing superior to it coming along since 1998.

Declining all over the place, man.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Why can't they make a game like FO or Arcanum with TOEE style combat?

 

[Turisas]

Why can't they make a game like FO or Arcanum with TOEE style combat?

Wut's a TOEE?

Spoiler

 

[Major_Blackhart]

I have grown to utterly loathe that retarded face.
It looks like that ugly mother fucker got plastic surgery, cheek implants or something.

 

[Lemming42]

For the longest time Fallout combat was regarded as "serviceable mediocrity", while PS:T and Arcanum combat was regarded as "weak". It is also a fact that Gamebryo combat is "complete ass". Putting them all in the same room is revisionist history, but then again it's become popular on the Codex lately to diss Fallout, despite nothing superior to it coming along since 1998.

Declining all over the place, man.

It's become popular to diss Fallout? I don't think I've ever seen anyone on the Codex who dislikes Fallout. All people are doing in this thread is ripping on the combat, which isn't the same as ripping on the game as a whole.

 

[Athelas]

The lack of party control hurts Fallout's combat more than anything else. Still, it manages to be pretty enjoyable in spite of its flaws.

 

[Modron]

Seems like a prerequisite for a good cRPG is that it must have bad combat.

JA2

Not an RPG.

Saint always argued that JA2 was essentially a dungeon crawler. People have no problem calling Dungeon Siege games RPGs yet JA2 has more dialog, quests, and choice in how to accomplish them and just as complex a character system.

 

[undecaf]

The lack of party control hurts Fallout's combat more than anything else.

Some say that. I didn't find that to be the trouble in the slightest, though, and found the greater issues to be about encounter management, AI and the lack of certain tactical options during combat.

Still, it manages to be pretty enjoyable in spite of its flaws.

It does.

 

[Infinitron]

People have no problem calling Dungeon Siege games RPGs

Uh...

 

[Modron]

People have no problem calling Dungeon Siege games RPGs

Uh...

Probably should have put people in quotations...

 

[shihonage]

For the longest time Fallout combat was regarded as "serviceable mediocrity", while PS:T and Arcanum combat was regarded as "weak". It is also a fact that Gamebryo combat is "complete ass". Putting them all in the same room is revisionist history, but then again it's become popular on the Codex lately to diss Fallout, despite nothing superior to it coming along since 1998.

Declining all over the place, man.

It's become popular to diss Fallout? I don't think I've ever seen anyone on the Codex who dislikes Fallout. All people are doing in this thread is ripping on the combat, which isn't the same as ripping on the game as a whole.

The cycle where I clarify something only to have it muddied in response, and then have to "clarify" again, is something I don't elect to participate in.

 

[DragoFireheart]

For the longest time Fallout combat was regarded as "serviceable mediocrity", while PS:T and Arcanum combat was regarded as "weak". It is also a fact that Gamebryo combat is "complete ass". Putting them all in the same room is revisionist history, but then again it's become popular on the Codex lately to diss Fallout, despite nothing superior to it coming along since 1998.

Declining all over the place, man.

Did you get that strawman from Roguey? You should raise your standards.

People have no problem calling Dungeon Siege games RPGs yet

I actually have a problem with this.

 

[shihonage]

Did you get that strawman from Roguey? You should raise your standards.

I got that conclusion from studying Fallout, Tim Cain, and observing the Codex over the past several years. My standards are where they should be.

 

[DalekFlay]

Fallout combat sucks if you compare it to X-Com or Jagged Alliance, sure, but those two games don't offer the variety of story, RPG and open world elements. I don't think any game has ever taken on so many aspects and done them all excellently. For the game it is I find Fallout and Fallout 2's combat more than serviceable. Same for New Vegas.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Fallout combat sucks if you compare it to X-Com or Jagged Alliance, sure, but those two games don't offer the variety of story, RPG and open world elements. I don't think any game has ever taken on so many aspects and done them all excellently. For the game it is I find Fallout and Fallout 2's combat more than serviceable. Same for New Vegas.

No, its combat sucks, period. Max guns/energy weapons skill, aim for eyes, have retarded allies die, win.

 

[DalekFlay]

No, its combat sucks, period. Max guns/energy weapons skill, aim for eyes, have retarded allies die, win.

Not really saying otherwise, read my post. I'm saying it's serviceable and the rest of the game is the stuff people play it for.

 

[Lemming42]

Fallout 1 worked with the combat by not having a huge amount of combat in the game and the non-random battles were all well designed enough to inject some fun into it.

Fallout 2 is another story though. Most of the game is fine, but the New Reno casinos and the GODDAMN TANKER BASEMENT show everything that's wrong with the combat system. Especially if you have Marcus with you. Everyone gives Ian shit for shooting you in the back, but at least Ian wasn't equipped by default with a chaingun and at least Ian made a minimal effort to hit the enemy instead of the player.

 

[Curious_Tongue]

If you're a compulsive re-loader like me, the poor AI wasn't much of an issue.

 

[Jaesun]

Why can't they make a game like FO or Arcanum with TOEE style combat?

I thought you had played Underrail?

 

[shihonage]

Why can't they make a game like FO or Arcanum with TOEE style combat?

I thought you had played Underrail?

In Underrail, combat mechanics are its main gameplay system and also the main target of its creative focus. It is as good of an approach as any, but it's not the same type of game as Fallout and Arcanum.

"My idea is to explore more of the world and more of the ethics of a post-nuclear world, not to make a better plasma gun. " - Tim Cain

 

[Roguey]

Did you get that strawman from Roguey? You should raise your standards.

Hold on there, imo killing things in Fallout is more enjoyable than Torment and Arcanum because of the sound effects and animations. Without those, they're all trash with Fallout having a slight-edge content-wise due to not having nearly as much combat content to avoid as either.

New Vegas trounces all of 'em though. Josh Sawyer created better systems with pockets of good content here and there.

 

[undecaf]

Too bad he wasn't able to cast his "Midas' touch" upon a more firm base to create - possibly - an all around enjoyable Fallout RPG.