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Fallout 4 Pre-Announcement Bullshit Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

Cleveland Mark Blakemore

Golden Era Games
Übermensch Developer
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
11,730
Location
LAND OF THE FREE & HOME OF THE BRAVE
I would expect a place like the Codex, which is filled with potato citizens and former potato citizens like myself, to have an innate sense of bullshit when it comes to models of desolate environments with realistic concept of resource scarcity. And yet you people come up with excuses for everything from retarded robot sheriffs to pointless souvenier shops in the middle of nowhere, to clean clinics with no lines, to electricity wasted on pointless fluff everywhere... a struggling village has a bar with neon signs...

… demonstrating your own unconscious prejudices about how such things are accomplished.

A post nuclear world is a libertarian paradise. It is difficult for a bolshevist like yourself to imagine a world with no central government which has extremely advanced technology, ample electricity from nuclear sources and fantastic MTBF for all their electronics. Even after a lifetime of standing in lines from food shortages waiting for your vodka and potato sack each week, you still think these things come from a centralised State.

In fact, the world of Fallout is so advanced because all the dead weight in the population trying to regulate mankind out of existence has bought the farm, freeing up individual creativity and innovation which has progressed at an astounding rate without the 80% bottom feeders sucking the lifeblood of the creative people with their lamprey bloodsucker tax and revenue draining schemes.

What is great about Fallout is that it gives us a glimpse of how wonderful the world might still become even after a nuclear holocaust … because people like you have perished.

There are no resource shortages in our world. The only shortage that plagues this planet is a shortage of brains. In the post-atomic world created by Bethesda, the bright people finally get to do all the things they wanted to do to improve their lives. You waited for the State to provide all these things for your whole life like tribalists in cargo cults in the South Seas.

Rest assured that as soon as you got tipped into the mass grave with a bulldozer by decontamination crews, people would be starting thorium generators in their garages worldwide. We could finally act as bright as we were born instead of always having to operate at the level at which people like yourself feel is appropriate. "Let's get the government to control it!" Brilliant, dude. Look how good that has been working the last 10,000 years. Manboon is not a learning animal.
 
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2house2fly

Magister
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
1,877
Dig a hole, make the robot chase something, voila.

Those "guns and lasers" are quite valuable in a dog-eat-dog world. So are rechargeable power sources, chassis, computer screens. Well worth digging a hole for, I say.
The people of Goodsprings would get a lot of use out of Victor's laser gun and power source for the week or so it would take for 50 other securitrons to roll up and massacre them for destroying Mr House's property. I have to admit that you're right and New Vegas is not sensible like Fallout 1, where you meet a cult that worships a giant mutated goo man.
 

Decado

Old time handsome face wrecker
Patron
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
2,718
Location
San Diego
Codex 2014
The writing improved noticeably in New Vegas over Fallout 3.

All I did was hear about how brilliant the writing was in Fallout 3 and frankly I just didn't see it. There was terrible composition and stilted, amateurish dialogue like something you'd expect from a grad school dropout. It was one of the weakest elements of FO3, topping the mess with the need to sacrifice a possible love interest at the end with a super mutant standing beside you who had already proven his worth at surviving in radioactive environments. This was just pathetic until the patch fixed it.

In New Vegas, a lot of the conversations were better written, more natural sounding and less contrived. There were also situations and quests that were more interesting and less like Fedex. For example, deciding who to route power to from the Helios One generators and having difficult choices to make. My son and I discussed the ambivalence in many places that clearly represented real life. The guys who were supposed to be the force for order and good, the NCR, were obvious power-hungry tyrants making a play for control over everything. Your mysterious benefactor at the casino was not much better. One of the reasons I decided to go with Mr. House is that he seemed the most likely to maintain law and order despite selfish motives. He was still a bad guy himself. It was when he asked me to wipe out the Brotherhood of Steel for no reason other than they represented a threat to him I decided to pop the lid on his hibernation chamber and take over. I didn't see any sort of dramatic conflict like this in Fallout 3, it was pretty much a rail shooter in terms of your interaction with NPCs.


This is as good an explanation as I've seen for why the writing was so much better. Bethesda's writing has never been strong, though Morrowind seems like the obvious exception. But then, it has never needed to be strong. They are selling a simulationist experience, for the most part.

Also, I think they don't appreciate how to transition from dialog that is written on the screen (Morrowind) to dialog that is spoken aloud. They are completely different animals.
 

DalekFlay

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
14,118
Location
New Vegas
Arguing with shihinage on this topic is about the biggest waste of time you could devote yourself to, FYI. Check out the other Fallout New Vegas threads to see he will not be swayed by logic or gameplay priority. He has no time for your marginally more silly than the original Fallout.
 
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
1,877,079
Location
Glass Fields, Ruins of Old Iran
That Rambo comment from the previous page makes it look like not even Fallout 1 is Fallout-y enough for him, what with those silly robots that don't fit the setting. Maybe the only real Fallout is the Fallout 1 demo, that only lets you walk around in proto-junktown :M
 

Luzur

Good Sir
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
42,029
Location
Swedish Empire
Wait, whatever stimpaks are made of there's no way they wouldn't have an expiration date, and what's the deal with reversing massive organ damage with a single injection anyway? Immersion = ruined.

C'mon, insta-heal serum is not nearly as retarded as heavily armed robots not being attacked for scrap metal. Stop making excuses. :roll:

im more irked that those robots are claimed to be 200 years old but are still functioning and even roams around freely in the wild without even a speck of rust on them.
 
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
1,877,079
Location
Glass Fields, Ruins of Old Iran
CffVkp.png
 
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
1,877,079
Location
Glass Fields, Ruins of Old Iran
Dunno, my thought process was that since you "catch" a cold, you could use the term for all infectious diseases, such as those you would catch from touching a heap of junk that spent the last few decades exposed to the elements:M
 

hiver

Guest
NV is a Fallout spinoff, not an actual Fallout game.

Therefore, all and everything in it has nothing to do with real Fallout setting or lore. Except as a lesser ripoff.
No amount of neanderthal wishing it to be different makes any difference Mr. Blakemore
 

shihonage

Second Variety Games
Patron
Developer
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
7,201
Location
United States Of Azebarjan
Bubbles In Memoria
I would expect a place like the Codex, which is filled with potato citizens and former potato citizens like myself, to have an innate sense of bullshit when it comes to models of desolate environments with realistic concept of resource scarcity. And yet you people come up with excuses for everything from retarded robot sheriffs to pointless souvenier shops in the middle of nowhere, to clean clinics with no lines, to electricity wasted on pointless fluff everywhere... a struggling village has a bar with neon signs...

… demonstrating your own unconscious prejudices about how such things are accomplished.

A post nuclear world is a libertarian paradise. It is difficult for a bolshevist like yourself to imagine a world with no central government which has extremely advanced technology, ample electricity from nuclear sources and fantastic MTBF for all their electronics. Even after a lifetime of standing in lines from food shortages waiting for your vodka and potato sack each week, you still think these things come from a centralised State.

In fact, the world of Fallout is so advanced because all the dead weight in the population trying to regulate mankind out of existence has bought the farm, freeing up individual creativity and innovation which has progressed at an astounding rate without the 80% bottom feeders sucking the lifeblood of the creative people with their lamprey bloodsucker tax and revenue draining schemes.

What is great about Fallout is that it gives us a glimpse of how wonderful the world might still become even after a nuclear holocaust … because people like you have perished.

There are no resource shortages in our world. The only shortage that plagues this planet is a shortage of brains. In the post-atomic world created by Bethesda, the bright people finally get to do all the things they wanted to do to improve their lives. You waited for the State to provide all these things for your whole life like tribalists in cargo cults in the South Seas.

Rest assured that as soon as you got tipped into the mass grave with a bulldozer by decontamination crews, people would be starting thorium generators in their garages worldwide. We could finally act as bright as we were born instead of always having to operate at the level at which people like yourself feel is appropriate. "Let's get the government to control it!" Brilliant, dude. Look how good that has been working the last 10,000 years. Manboon is not a learning animal.

Since this reply is written by the Mystical Codex Legend, I'm going to violate my promise for this post. This is a very nice troll, and what's sad, it's coming from someone politically aligned with me.

Calling me a commie is one of the worst insults you can use. Just recently I wrote an article for a conservative site, contrasting the drab life in USSR with the amazing wealth generation and opportunity afforded by capitalism. There are plenty of Obama-Jugend who could benefit from your rhetoric in this day and age - I'm not one of them. I used to be a Lenin-Jugend, but I grew up in an environment which offered no traces of prosperity afforded by capitalism. After 1991, we started getting information from overseas, and everyone scrambled to GTFO into a capitalist country, be it America, Israel, Germany or U.K... people realized that they were robbed by a Statist government. Not so dissimilar in principle from the one that's now instituting the disastrous wealth redistribution policy called Affordable Care Act.

Politics aside, however strong your argument would be otherwise, it still falls firmly in the pile of FO:NV apologists.

Scarcity is scarcity. I didn't imply scarcity, the FO:NV designers did, but they don't want to live with the consequences. One clinic per large area should mean patient lines and exhausted doctors, PERIOD.

Especially at early stages of rebuilding, you still won't see such extravagant waste of resources as a freaking sentient robot defending a village. It's a STARK CONTRAST. One thing is a bartender robot in shiny tech prosperous world of 5th Element. Another thing is a futuristic robot standing in the middle of a muddy 18-th century village which isn't anywhere near the level of technology that the robot itself.

I can't believe so many people are taking it as a given. What SHOULD BE THERE is human armed guards. Not a wacky fucking robot. It ruins the world from the start.

As portrayed by FO:NV designers themselves, the world of FO:NV is NOT a prosperous place. It's NOT a place where New Vegas itself belongs. So in the end, it all boils down to the same thing with you as all the other apologists - the libertarian dream world that you speak of, isn't actually, coherently, present in the game.

Maybe it realistically WOULD BE, but it ISN'T portrayed with any degree of believability.

So you LARP it. You use the idea of it to excuse the actual nonsense of FO:NV's actual gameworld.

FO:NV is a LARPer game. One where the hollow ring of the world "Fallout" has long lost its impact, with the post-post-post-apocalyptic world hopelessly diluted by Fallout 2 and 3 into generic mash of poorly thought-out sci-fi.

Don't call me a commie again.
 

Lemming42

Arcane
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
6,849
Location
The Satellite Of Love
Especially at early stages of rebuilding,

200 years after the war.

Scarcity is scarcity. I didn't imply scarcity, the FO:NV designers did, but they don't want to live with the consequences. One clinic per large area should mean patient lines and exhausted doctors, PERIOD.

They implied scarcity? Everyone in Novac calls it a "boom town", Vegas itself is obviously prosperous (and even shitty Freeside and Westside reap some of the benefits), Primm has a functioning casino which people apparently went to before Powder Gangers overtook the town. The 188 Trading Post gets a lot of activity from caravans and shit like that - oh, and the caravan networks all over the Mojave imply a degree of prosperity or at least relative comfort for the Mojave's people - Nipton was a popular place for both NCR and Legion troops as well as civilians before the Legion went and fucked it up. All of this is in the game, shown in both dialogue and visually represented.

I dunno where you get the idea that people would be in such dire straits in the Mojave that they have to risk their lives scrapping a robot.

For all the things you could criticize New Vegas - and there's plenty of things, such as crappy Legion side of the main quest, cruddy engine, bad AI, etc - the cowboy robot is just the weakest criticism you could possibly pick.

EDIT: Just noticed this, which my brain somehow glossed over before:
One clinic per large area should mean patient lines and exhausted doctors, PERIOD.

There's literally an entire plot about the exhausted doctors of the Followers Of The Apocalypse in Freeside and how they're overrun with patients and low on supplies. It's a huge questline, practically impossible to miss. You did play the game, right?
 
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Curious_Tongue

Larpfest
Patron
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Messages
11,956
Location
Australia
Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Serpent in the Staglands Codex USB, 2014
I would expect a place like the Codex, which is filled with potato citizens and former potato citizens like myself, to have an innate sense of bullshit when it comes to models of desolate environments with realistic concept of resource scarcity. And yet you people come up with excuses for everything from retarded robot sheriffs to pointless souvenier shops in the middle of nowhere, to clean clinics with no lines, to electricity wasted on pointless fluff everywhere... a struggling village has a bar with neon signs...

… demonstrating your own unconscious prejudices about how such things are accomplished.

A post nuclear world is a libertarian paradise. It is difficult for a bolshevist like yourself to imagine a world with no central government which has extremely advanced technology, ample electricity from nuclear sources and fantastic MTBF for all their electronics. Even after a lifetime of standing in lines from food shortages waiting for your vodka and potato sack each week, you still think these things come from a centralised State.

In fact, the world of Fallout is so advanced because all the dead weight in the population trying to regulate mankind out of existence has bought the farm, freeing up individual creativity and innovation which has progressed at an astounding rate without the 80% bottom feeders sucking the lifeblood of the creative people with their lamprey bloodsucker tax and revenue draining schemes.

What is great about Fallout is that it gives us a glimpse of how wonderful the world might still become even after a nuclear holocaust … because people like you have perished.

There are no resource shortages in our world. The only shortage that plagues this planet is a shortage of brains. In the post-atomic world created by Bethesda, the bright people finally get to do all the things they wanted to do to improve their lives. You waited for the State to provide all these things for your whole life like tribalists in cargo cults in the South Seas.

Rest assured that as soon as you got tipped into the mass grave with a bulldozer by decontamination crews, people would be starting thorium generators in their garages worldwide. We could finally act as bright as we were born instead of always having to operate at the level at which people like yourself feel is appropriate. "Let's get the government to control it!" Brilliant, dude. Look how good that has been working the last 10,000 years. Manboon is not a learning animal.

Since this reply is written by the Mystical Codex Legend, I'm going to violate my promise for this post. This is a very nice troll, and what's sad, it's coming from someone politically aligned with me.

Calling me a commie is one of the worst insults you can use. Just recently I wrote an article for a conservative site, contrasting the drab life in USSR with the amazing wealth generation and opportunity afforded by capitalism. There are plenty of Obama-Jugend who could benefit from your rhetoric in this day and age - I'm not one of them. I used to be a Lenin-Jugend, but I grew up in an environment which offered no traces of prosperity afforded by capitalism. After 1991, we started getting information from overseas, and everyone scrambled to GTFO into a capitalist country, be it America, Israel, Germany or U.K... people realized that they were robbed by a Statist government. Not so dissimilar in principle from the one that's now instituting the disastrous wealth redistribution policy called Affordable Care Act.

Politics aside, however strong your argument would be otherwise, it still falls firmly in the pile of FO:NV apologists.

Scarcity is scarcity. I didn't imply scarcity, the FO:NV designers did, but they don't want to live with the consequences. One clinic per large area should mean patient lines and exhausted doctors, PERIOD.

Especially at early stages of rebuilding, you still won't see such extravagant waste of resources as a freaking sentient robot defending a village. It's a STARK CONTRAST. One thing is a bartender robot in shiny tech prosperous world of 5th Element. Another thing is a futuristic robot standing in the middle of a muddy 18-th century village which isn't anywhere near the level of technology that the robot itself.

I can't believe so many people are taking it as a given. What SHOULD BE THERE is human armed guards. Not a wacky fucking robot. It ruins the world from the start.

As portrayed by FO:NV designers themselves, the world of FO:NV is NOT a prosperous place. It's NOT a place where New Vegas itself belongs. So in the end, it all boils down to the same thing with you as all the other apologists - the libertarian dream world that you speak of, isn't actually, coherently, present in the game.

Maybe it realistically WOULD BE, but it ISN'T portrayed with any degree of believability.

So you LARP it. You use the idea of it to excuse the actual nonsense of FO:NV's actual gameworld.

FO:NV is a LARPer game. One where the hollow ring of the world "Fallout" has long lost its impact, with the post-post-post-apocalyptic world hopelessly diluted by Fallout 2 and 3 into generic mash of poorly thought-out sci-fi.

Don't call me a commie again.

A Libertarian complaining a fantasy world isn't matching up with reality.

FNV, if it were even trying to be realistic, wouldn't have anyone alive, or the people alive would be in such misery that no-one would play the game.
 

2house2fly

Magister
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
1,877
Scarcity is scarcity. I didn't imply scarcity, the FO:NV designers did, but they don't want to live with the consequences. One clinic per large area should mean patient lines and exhausted doctors, PERIOD.
Yeah. I remember those from Fallout 1, the sensible, realistic Fallout game. Another doctor I met in that game was Doctor Who.
 

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