Fallout 4 Pre-Release Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Mastermind]

I don't want to play a strategy game though, I want to do that in an RPG.

Doesn't this fall somewhat outside the limits of the definition though?

No.

As it stands, this sounds much more like a sim. Which of course it won't be, so these systems will most likely be terribly implemented; basically the age-old newbie designer mistake of trying to cram stuff willy-nilly in the game, simply because they thought of it. (Or in this case, because it checks all the boxes for something a particular type of (wide) audience will go for.)

What's this game's concept, anyway? Simulate life in a post-apocalyptic wasteland? What sort of life? Gun-and-armor obsessed loner that somehow also wants to rebuild civilization? What would the storyline justification for that be? Is it even going to have one? Some sort of thematic unity or an idea? Is it going to be some meta-powergaming race where players are going to compete for strongest base and most pimped out power armor? I don't get it at all, really. It sounds so immature and amateurish.

The point of playing an RPG is building a character with specific attributes then having that character interact with and shape the game world with his choices. The game and story should service that, and there is no theoretical limit to how many styles an RPG can include. IE:an RPG's gameplay have to be limited to combat/talking. In an ideal RPG you should be able to build a wide variety of characters in the same world, from the meathead warrior to the master wizard to the merchant prince. I know most RPGs won't reach the ideal but anything that pushes it closer to it is a good thing IMO. And an open world RPG with complete freedom of movement is precisely where this sort of thing works best.

It sounds immature and amateurish to you because you're a simple mind with simple tastes and the idea of being granted too many options of interacting with the world scares the shit out of you. Basically, you're a disgusting storyfag who thinks "thematic unity" is important but actually having more than 2-3 gameplay choices is genre breaking.

 

[crojipjip]

This game is so much unlike the original fallouts now, that you guys will appear stupid for even comparing them to the old fallouts. It would be like playing a game you know has nothing to do with the others then complaining it isn't like them anyway.

 

[Immortal]

Do you not realize that companies make $$$ by you pirating games? Marketing and publicity lead to good word of mouth. The more people are playing a game, the more people are compelled to buy it. Indirectly, pirating games supports the company you are pirating from when it comes to massive AAA games because all you're doing is making these games more talked about and popular. Piracy might be a detriment when it's done with small companies - but every sucker pirating GTA or a Bethesda game is just doing free marketing work for them. Good fucking job.

It's the same principle as when people give away free copies of a magazine or something. The money they miss from a purchase is more than made up by the word of mouth you generate.

HAHAHAHAHA

 

[rohand]

And there goes Fallout.

It died as it lived.

 

[Jasede]

So you're seriously denying that an extra couple hundred thousand players won't lead to more interest in the game than not having them? Do you even realize how effective PR and marketing and word of mouth and peer pressure are? If everyone is playing it, a lot more people are likely to purchase something than if not.

 

[Monkeysattva]

It's good. With Fallout 4 I can offically stop giving a fuck a bout video games. It's been a long time coming, isn't a big surprise, and is just the final nail in the coffin. No hard feelings vidya. It's not even about the game itself but the megachurch of raving morons that drown themselves in cum. Just don't want it to accidentally splash on me.

 

[Trip]

The point of playing an RPG is building a character with specific attributes then having that character interact with and shape the game world with his choices. The game and story should service that, and there is no theoretical limit to how many styles an RPG can include. IE:an RPG's gameplay have to be limited to combat/talking. In an ideal RPG you should be able to build a wide variety of characters in the same world, from the meathead warrior to the master wizard to the merchant prince. I know most RPGs won't reach the ideal but anything that pushes it closer to it is a good thing IMO. And an open world RPG with complete freedom of movement is precisely where this sort of thing works best.

Odd and unprovoked personal sniping aside, this is true, if you hold that the ideal for RPGs is to explore and influence as many aspects of the environment as possible, using the PC as an engineering tool, more or less. Certainly one way to make an RPG, and I'm open to that sort of design. (Also, I definitely don't think it's the only way forward.) My problem with Fallout 4 in particular is that it won't be that sort of design, and it doesn't look like they're even including it for experimentation's sake. They're including it to ramp up the feature list and to have something for their marketing department to rant about.

It's not a bad thing for a game to know what gameplay it wants to promote. And as to the variety of characters that you seem to value (as do I), it doesn't look like F4 is going to provide anything like that. No meaningful exploration of character builds as far as I can see. Same goes for the setting, it would seem. Open world RPGs are fine, but they need something to galvanize the player's attention, preferably more than one thing so you can't wait to go everywhere at once. It has to be a living and an appealing world, as well as an open one. And it could've been if Bethesda had focused on this, which again they don't seem to have done. The ratio of "empty wandering/places you can't wait to reach" is always bad in their games, really.

So, while it's nice that you have a sort of aesthetic vision about RPGs, I wasn't actually talking about stuff in general, but about F4 in particular. No, I'm definitely not afraid of rich gameplay; I'm annoyed by undercooked hodge-podge though, and this seems to be it.

 

[markec]

And here I thought they could not rape the franchise even more, boy was I wrong. To be fair no matter what features they add or remove the game can be good if the world and quest design is well done, then again this is Bethesda we are talking about so yeah chances are slim at best.

Now only thing I want to know is will they allow monetization of mods, because if they do, we can forget about "mods will fix it".

 

[Lios]

This game is so much unlike the original fallouts now, that you guys will appear stupid for even comparing them to the old fallouts. It would be like playing a game you know has nothing to do with the others then complaining it isn't like them anyway.

Agreed.
They even turned Dogmeat into a wrench-grabbing pussy.

hexer finish with the Van Buren project as fast as you can, even if you have to become a hermit

 

[Multiple Sarcasm]

This game is so much unlike the original fallouts now, that you guys will appear stupid for even comparing them to the old fallouts. It would be like playing a game you know has nothing to do with the others then complaining it isn't like them anyway.

Welcome to the Co-
...oh, wait.

 

[Curious_Tongue]

I hope they let you dump the dog in a kennel somewhere.

I hate looking after companions.

 

[Mastermind]

The point of playing an RPG is building a character with specific attributes then having that character interact with and shape the game world with his choices. The game and story should service that, and there is no theoretical limit to how many styles an RPG can include. IE:an RPG's gameplay have to be limited to combat/talking. In an ideal RPG you should be able to build a wide variety of characters in the same world, from the meathead warrior to the master wizard to the merchant prince. I know most RPGs won't reach the ideal but anything that pushes it closer to it is a good thing IMO. And an open world RPG with complete freedom of movement is precisely where this sort of thing works best.

Odd and unprovoked personal sniping aside, this is true, if you hold that the ideal for RPGs is to explore and influence as many aspects of the environment as possible, using the PC as an engineering tool, more or less. Certainly one way to make an RPG, and I'm open to that sort of design. (Also, I definitely don't think it's the only way forward.) My problem with Fallout 4 in particular is that it won't be that sort of design, and it doesn't look like they're even including it for experimentation's sake. They're including it to ramp up the feature list and to have something for their marketing department to rant about.

It's not a bad thing for a game to know what gameplay it wants to promote. And as to the variety of characters that you seem to value (as do I), it doesn't look like F4 is going to provide anything like that. No meaningful exploration of character builds as far as I can see. Same goes for the setting, it would seem. Open world RPGs are fine, but they need something to galvanize the player's attention, preferably more than one thing so you can't wait to go everywhere at once. It has to be a living and an appealing world, as well as an open one. And it could've been if Bethesda had focused on this, which again they don't seem to have done. The ratio of "empty wandering/places you can't wait to reach" is always bad in their games, really.

So, while it's nice that you have a sort of aesthetic vision about RPGs, I wasn't actually talking about stuff in general, but about F4 in particular. No, I'm definitely not afraid of rich gameplay; I'm annoyed by undercooked hodge-podge though, and this seems to be it.

Nigga don't lie, you specifically took issue with the idea itself rather than just its implementation in FO4 (of which we know very little seeing how the game was only recently announced).

 

[Veelq]

After reading this thread i think Codex GOTY should be Hatred, just switch word "people" with "modern games"

 

[Lord Andre]

I can't tell if Mastermind is trolling like a boss or just went full retard a dozen pages ago...

 

[hoverdog]

 

[Gerrard]

Dialogue wheels are in, skills are out

Ban mastermind already ffs

No. Give him a dumbfuck tag and some redbull.

Sorry, but the pastimes of the ruling class in these parts have made the tags quite meaningless in recent times.

 

[Trip]

Nigga don't lie, you specifically took issue with the idea itself rather than just its implementation in FO4 (of which we know very little seeing how the game was only recently announced).

What's this game's concept, anyway? Simulate life in a post-apocalyptic wasteland? What sort of life? Gun-and-armor obsessed loner that somehow also wants to rebuild civilization? What would the storyline justification for that be? Is it even going to have one? Some sort of thematic unity or an idea? Is it going to be some meta-powergaming race where players are going to compete for strongest base and most pimped out power armor? I don't get it at all, really.

This is what I said. Which, to rephrase it simply, means "What does this game want to be, given how confusing all the footage and material is so far?"

Also:

As it stands, this sounds much more like a sim. Which of course it won't be, so these systems will most likely be terribly implemented; basically the age-old newbie designer mistake of trying to cram stuff willy-nilly in the game, simply because they thought of it. (Or in this case, because it checks all the boxes for something a particular type of (wide) audience will go for.)

I specifically stressed implementation.
None of the ideas I listed (post-apocalyptic sim/strong thematic narrative/powergaming toolbox) are by themselves a problem for me. What I take issue with is this: I don't know what the hell this F4 frankengame is all about, and I'm definitely not optimistic that it will be good or even mediocre at everything it's shown so far. It reeks of marketing hype and feature bloat to me.

 

[Irxy]

After reading this thread i think Codex GOTY should be Hatred, just switch word "people" with "modern games"

Oh you know, many of those telling how bad is F4 will buy it and play 100+ hours, just want to be edgy on codex.
I refuse to believe anyone is still butthurt it's not isometric etc.

 

[Jimmious]

Is it indeed confirmed that skills are gone or is it just a rumor? If so, why is it even considered an RPG anymore? Seems kinda cool for an FPS though.

 

[Hirato]

One thing is for sure, loverslab will make this worth playing by 2018.

 

[Veelq]

Would be funny if that was true and players play more of F1 in Pip-boy than the actual game.

 

[Gord]

Stats in, skills out - if true - would be kinda ironic after Skyrim had skills, but no stats.

Spoiler

Would be funny if that was true and players play more of F1 in Pip-boy than the actual game.

Mod of the week: Play Fallout pip-boy-"mini-game" in fullscreen

 

[28.8bps Modem]

After reading this thread i think Codex GOTY should be Hatred, just switch word "people" with "modern games"

Oh you know, many of those telling how bad is F4 will buy it and play 100+ hours, just want to be edgy on codex.
I refuse to believe anyone is still butthurt it's not isometric etc.

You know, I said I would buy it earlier in this thread. It's Fallout after all, and you have to play it just to see how badly Bethesda fucks things up this time.

But this shit they revealed yesterday, it's entirely put me off. If I buy it now, it's only going to be some GOTY bundle for 5 quid in a steam sale two years from now. There's no enjoyment, not even schadenfreude, to be had here.

 

[Nas92]

Is it indeed confirmed that skills are gone or is it just a rumor? If so, why is it even considered an RPG anymore? Seems kinda cool for an FPS though.

If you look at the video, during the character creation skills don't come up, and in the pip-boy they showed there were only perks, no skills. Therefore they most likely scrapped skills, thinking they could substitute them with more perks and the attributes. Pretty funny how everyone was worried about SPECIAL being scrapped, but no one ever thought that they would remove skills. I wonder how terribly broken their perk system will be. It's very suspicious that they didn't bother even mentioning anything about the mechanics, he even seemed to rush through allocating points as fast as possible.

 

[e-mailio estevez]

Well, Shadowrun: HK looks good, at least.