X-COM Firaxis - XCOM: Enemy Unknown + Enemy Within Expansion

[Zeriel]

It's been ages since I played but with XCOM 1 LW my recollection is that the number of soldiers you can bring into missions is way higher--both by default without any upgrades and the max with upgrades. That should make it way easier as a baseline, hence all the pod activations. I never did finish a LW campaign though because it's way too fucking grindy with lots of tedious, not-hard missions you have to churn through. The vanilla game already had you see the same maps on repeat in a normal playthrough, LW just dialed that up to 11.

 

[ArchAngel]

In LW Rebalanced (don't know if this is how it is in LW 1.0) crashed UFO lets you bring 6 at start, Abduction only lets you bring 4. Council missions let me bring 6 as well.

I think I will continue playing for few ingame months to see if the game gets harder and if not then restart on classic difficulty.

 

[mastroego]

It's meant to be easier at the start and harder later, unlike regular LW.
Aliens will gradually gain Damage Resistance and other stuff.
Some of them start with lots of it already, wait to see the terror missions.

I suspect you haven't read the - admittedly long - readme detailing the modifications and their purposes.
I seem to remember that they also emphasized the difference in the difficulty levels, I mean, even if it's all changed, Normal might be too easy indeed for a veteran of the game like you.

Do try on Classic, don't waste time with Normal.
But do read the readme before that, or you WILL get crushed after a while because you didn't develop soldiers efficiently enough, or you didn't notice that all Scientists and Engineers have to be directly acquired and so on.

 

[Zeriel]

Oh yeah, XCOM LW had the hella dumb changes to the air game. I don't remember exactly what they were, but I remember them being so bad it negatively affected the rest of the game.

 

[mastroego]

Yeah but the Rebalanced version improved Air Combat quite a lot.

 

[ArchAngel]

It's meant to be easier at the start and harder later, unlike regular LW.
Aliens will gradually gain Damage Resistance and other stuff.
Some of them start with lots of it already, wait to see the terror missions.

I suspect you haven't read the - admittedly long - readme detailing the modifications and their purposes.
I seem to remember that they also emphasized the difference in the difficulty levels, I mean, even if it's all changed, Normal might be too easy indeed for a veteran of the game like you.

Do try on Classic, don't waste time with Normal.
But do read the readme before that, or you WILL get crushed after a while because you didn't develop soldiers efficiently enough, or you didn't notice that all Scientists and Engineers have to be directly acquired and so on.

I accidentally deleted my save so I started over on classic difficulty :D

I didn't read any readme and I doubt I will, I will just play and learn.
What do you mean acquire directly? So far I was only able to get them by accepting requests from countries.

 

[Zeriel]

That might be what he means, in vanilla XCOM you got engs/scientists for free from building the science/manufacturing nodes.

 

[baturinsky]

Rebalance is way better. My favorite thing is that if you spring a pod, it's giving each your soldier that is out of move a half-move for walking only. It allows you moving at full speed out of combat, making battles way less boring.

Enemy DR is pretty crazy, though, making laser weapon obsolete very fast.

 

[ArchAngel]

Rebalance is way better. My favorite thing is that if you spring a pod, it's giving each your soldier that is out of move a half-move for walking only. It allows you moving at full speed out of combat, making battles way less boring.

Enemy DR is pretty crazy, though, making laser weapon obsolete very fast.

Yea I noticed that with extra move. At first I was confused and I was thinking it was a bug :D

 

[mastroego]

You're supposed to read the mod's description.
You're guaranteed to miss things otherwise.

For example, you might not notice that when you equip a stun-gun, to select secondary abilities you need to switch to the pistol.
Or you might not notice how the arc-rifle has been changed (it's a potent anti-mechanical weapon now. Bringing it on the field might be a gamble as it's useless vs biological units, but you generally want to have one, perhaps on a Medic. I once dared to equip a freakin' sniper with it, actually faced lots of mechanical units and beautifully made short work of them).

 

[ArchAngel]

My classic run came to an early stop. First Medium UFO, I shot it down easily. Went to the mission, went around the ship and cleared all the sectoids, floaters, drones and Thin Men without any casualty and little damage received (and then healed by my medic). Then I decided to go after the two Outsiders inside the ship... fuck you whoever designed them. First time I tied to fight them in close quarters. They have Close Combat and Sentinel/Covering Fire.
They killed 3 of my guys like they were nothing while I only managed to kill one of them. Then I was left with two less useful guys + sniper that didn't have a shot vs one with full health. I was out of grenades, out of close combat characters and they killed my Master SGT/Lieutenant (Japan start gives you one Master SGT that I would always take with me on harder missions) so I just deleted my save right there :D

Fuck you devs of this mod, no need to make Outsiders this fucking OP.

Maybe it is for the better, now I can use the second wave option to turn off stupid bullshit stuff from this mod that gives you more fatigue and later damage if you don't rush all missions. If I wanted that bullshit I would still play Xcom 2 LW2 that is superior to this mod in many ways.

And I knew about how stun gun works as that warning is in description of the weapon.

 

[mastroego]

You're being unfair, you've just been surprised as you didn't read the mod's description.
There are a few strong enemies in Rebalanced, Outsiders are among them, you just need to be aware of that.
I usually keep them for last so I can gang up on them, I don't waste solitary shots as they regenerate quickly, I might even skip a turn to just have everyone Steady their weapons. Perhaps using suppression or a flashbang to keep them quite.
Honestly I now deal with them easily enough, usually, but I like the challenge.
Occasionally I might have to accept some damage on a shiv sent in for a close kill, or things like that.

I used to be annoyed by Fatigue but I also used to drown in Meld and now I can use it to reduce Infirmary Time.
So now Meld is a resource I actually have to use sparingly, like everything else.
I do use one Second Wave option not to have the full fatigue system though, don't remember which one ATM.

I find myself "playing with everything", with this mod.
Air Combat, country requests... everything is a lot more meaningful than it was in plain LW, imho.

 

[ArchAngel]

You're being unfair, you've just been surprised as you didn't read the mod's description.
There are a few strong enemies in Rebalanced, Outsiders are among them, you just need to be aware of that.
I usually keep them for last so I can gang up on them, I don't waste solitary shots as they regenerate quickly, I might even skip a turn to just have everyone Steady their weapons. Perhaps using suppression or a flashbang to keep them quite.
Honestly I now deal with them easily enough, usually, but I like the challenge.
Occasionally I might have to accept some damage on a shiv sent in for a close kill, or things like that.

I used to be annoyed by Fatigue but I also used to drown in Meld and now I can use it to reduce Infirmary Time.
So now Meld it's a resource I actually have to use sparingly, like everything else.

I find myself "playing with everything", with this mod.
Air Combat, country requests... everything is a lot more meaningful than it was in plain LW, imho.

Accept some damage? They do 15 damage to anyone that goes up close to kill them. Close combat first and then Covering Fire, my Assault didn't even get to fire. Both basically cannot miss as they also get close range aim bonus. It was too much giving them both those perks. Suppress is a tool I could have used if it was one, but two is crazy. I guess if I play again I will bring at least 2 flashbangs to deal with them (except they do Covering fire before you throw your flashbang..)
When I fought one in smaller UFO I never had this problem (but I also never tried to move within 4 squares), with smaller UFO it is much more open and has more low cover and you can usually hit them from outside. Medium UFO is not open and full of full cover. Fighting them inside it is suicide I guess.. does lightning reflexes work vs close combat?

 

[mastroego]

Yeah LR works IIRC.
I don't know, I'm playing at Classic and I don't find them to be THAT difficult, though yes Covering Fire is dangerous as I can avoid Close Combat but not the covering fire retaliation.
Still, if they're flashbanged or suppressed, and you fire Steadied from cover, you'll be pretty safe.
(you might not have noticed that Steady Weapon gives +30 Aim in Rebalanced, so it really is an important tool)

If you keep them for last, you can often just flank them and fire from afar for easy critical hits.
Also, Shivs. They're meant to be used early game, build perhaps one or two spares.
You can send IT inside. Usually the Shiv can take one for the team and one-shot the Outsider.

 

[ArchAngel]

What is LR?
What is IT?

Unless I missed something Steady only works after you see the enemy and I need to lose the round and let enemy shoot at my troops. I would rather take two shots in those two rounds with a chance to kill the enemy in round one. I can only see Steady worth it for Rocketeers (because they often cannot hit anything without Steady, Snipers with no good shot atm) or for shots that have under 50% hit chance without it.

Also I must say that my first meet with Chrysalids was scary, fuck they got lots of defense and they are super hard to hit. I need to bring more explosives next time.

 

[mastroego]

You mentioned Lightning Reflexes, I just answered "LR".
IT meant "it", the SHIV.

You can work out your own strategy I guess but mine is tested so I know it works. You can accept one round being shot at if you're careful, next round... steadied weapons and simultaneous hits, and the outsider is toast.
It's a dangerous enemy and the team needs to coordinate the attack.
Then again the beauty of the game is the need to adapt to the circumstances on the field.

And yep, you need more explosives for Chryssalids.
They're really hard to target and it's maybe one of the changes I like the least, but I have to admit they're freaking scary and the message "these fuckers will come fast at you to eat you and you don't want that to happen" really does come across.

 

[ArchAngel]

Giving them crazy move speed and lots of defense (and their damage is also very good) seems to be a bit of overkill. You got no way to kill them except with grenades (shotguns also suck vs them because of their carapace) or explosives (and rocketeers are kind of more miss than hit at this part of the game). Only other tactics that might work is a bunch of standard rifle troops that all get into the face of these guys to get better chance to hit. But maybe they wanted to create that "Oh shit" feeling that you got when chrysalids showed up in UFO. Although two Outsiders at short range give that feeling way more :D

Also what I love about shotguns is how when you are close to enemy, you can even reliably hit them through cover.

 

[ArchAngel]

Also are there important additional mods to use?
Like something to speed up animation and maybe something to give me flanking preview before moving (game has line of shot preview as part of LW rebalanced but I also want to know for flanking). Also that line of shot preview is kind of useless for snipers as you are sometimes too far away to see enemy icons change or not (and I am not even sure if that preview even works for squadsight weapons).

 

[mastroego]

More or less my take on anti-chryssalid tactics, yes.
Another possibility is a gunner with the biggest version of the gunner weapon (AFAIK now the only way for gunners to get the Danger Zone effect is to use the biggest weapon which grants it automatically).
They can holo and shred a whole pack and make it "doable". Though this would probably be a dedicated gunner, since you might prefer making Heat gunners, generally, to deal with other threats.

I suppose the author did want that feel.
Consider that Chryssalids used to be tougher in previous versions of the mod.
When you get a terror mission, well, you'll have to face terror and expect damage/losses. On the other hand, soldiers are now a priority target (over civilians) and the math has been reworked so if you play a mission truly well you can actually REDUCE panic.
Overall things make more sense, imho.

I confess I didn't look for additional mods. There are a lot of Ease of Use included already so I kinda went with that....

 

[ArchAngel]

Animations are still a bit slow and scout after every move does the listen animation that lasts for 5+ seconds.

 

[Wyatt_Derp]

Also are there important additional mods to use?
Like something to speed up animation and maybe something to give me flanking preview before moving (game has line of shot preview as part of LW rebalanced but I also want to know for flanking). Also that line of shot preview is kind of useless for snipers as you are sometimes too far away to see enemy icons change or not (and I am not even sure if that preview even works for squadsight weapons).

XCOM ToolBoks covers a bunch of changes including fast move options.

https://www.nexusmods.com/xcom/mods/79?tab=description

Long War also may have had some changes to combat speeds, but it's been a while since I played it, so I can't remember. But it's fun either way, and highly recommended.

https://www.nexusmods.com/xcom/mods/88

 

[ArchAngel]

A little googling says that LW already has some speed up option, should be Alt+F7 to Alt +F9. I have to try it when I can.

EDIT: OK I can confirm that Alt+F7 to Alt+F9 change speed of the game. Alt+F7 is default speed.

 

[ArchAngel]

Can any of you tell me if there is a point into going into a mission that you know you cannot win and then retreat at some point?

I got a landed large UFO mission in 3rd month. Team of 6 of my guys with mixed laser/balistic weapons have no chance to kill that shit (or battle 3 Outsiders at the end) so I was just thinking to go in, kill some packs and then retreat. I suppose I will not gain any items, but maybe I can get some XP from it?

 

[mastroego]

Well I just had to abandon my first mission with this (very satisfying so far) run.
End of July.
Landed cargo ship, I thought I could take it as it seemed I had gained incremental tech advantage over the aliens and I was starting to have it easy on regular missions.
Also sent a very strong team.
But NO.
Had to retreat like hell, abort and count my blessings, with berserkers almost onto me.

I did kill a few aliens and got the weapons fragments and a carcass as a reward.... so I guess XPs too?
Not that it matters much.
A lost battle is a lost battle.

Oh, make sure you understand how to deal with SHIVs and aborted missions, or you'll lose them when you could avoid it.

 

[ArchAngel]

What do you mean about SHIV?

I don't use SHIVs unless I got no good troopers available. They don't get any XP. Also I don't have any Alloy SHIVs yet.