X-COM Firaxis - XCOM: Enemy Unknown + Enemy Within Expansion

[Angthoron]

So guys, is this like worth buying, even?

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Yes goddamnit. It's like you people don't even listen to me.

 

[Misconnected]

So guys, is this like worth buying, even?

Definitely. It's not X-Com 3. In a way it's almost the opposite where your most important decisions are the ones you make on the base level and not in combat. But yeah, FiraXcom is definitely worth it. I can't really stress enough that it is very, very difficult from the X-Coms. But I also can't really stress enough that it is pretty fucking great.

The comparison probably won't make sense before you've played FiraXcom for a while, but in a way it's like a dream-team combination of Laser Squad and Final Fantasy. And it mostly plays better than either.

Really, get it. It's almost certainly going to be one of those "Wow, this is exactly what I didn't realise I always wanted!" things.

 

[Angthoron]

Huh. Alright then, considering the overall positive tone of this thread, I'm going to give it a try. Thankfully, Green Man Gaming had a 20% off on it, so, yay. Will give it a try later today.

 

[Marsal]

Support Colonels in Ghost Armor are amazingly versatile. I have one of mine equipped with Ghost Armor, Plasma Rifle, Plasma Pistol, Medikit, and Chitin Plating; chosen Abilities are Sprinter, Field Medic, Rifle Suppression, Dense Smoke, and Savior. She can stealth several times to scout ahead or hide from enemies, throw a highly defensive smoke bomb, move 12-24 (!) tiles per movement phase, lay down suppressing fire, heal 10 HP three times per mission, use the grappling hook to ascend terrain, and is relatively survivable, what with +20 defense from Ghost Armor and Chitin Plating reducing melee damage by half. Swap out the Chitin Plating for something else to further increase versatility at the expense of survivability.

I need one (or preferably two) of these with Psi abilities ASAP.

I consider it a testament to how well the specialties in this game are balanced that at least one of each is practically mandatory, though. Six Psi Support Colonels would be tempting (if you could manage to keep going long enough to get them), but it's hard to skip the Sniper's long-range massive damage output, the Heavy's ability to explode everything, and the Assault ability to safely cover long distances and then deal humongous amounts of damage, while surviving more heat than any other class.

Support class is indeed awesome. At the beginning of the game I was using a couple of Heavies for their shoot twice ability + rockets that one shot bunch of stuff. In the mid game I relied on Assault + Support and in the end game Heavies proved useful with +100% damage to armored targets and homing missiles. It's really difficult to kill a pair of Sectopods without a Heavy.

I could never put Snipers to good use, even with the flying armor. Squadsight never worked for me. I mainly used them to scout with the probes and somehow they got killed the most of any class, despite not doing much at all. I didn't manage to get one Colonel Sniper...

I used 3 Ghost and 3 PSI armor in the end composition (2 Assault, 3 Support, 1 Heavy). Heavy was really awesome in Ghost armor, as he could get in the position and decloak to fire a rocket or shoot twice from close range on Sectopods and Cyberdiscs. I think it isn't worth sacrificing movement for a couple of HP extra by using Heavy armor. It is a lot cheaper than Ghost armor and can be manufactured much earlier, though. There should be one more late game Heavy armor with +12 HP and 2 damage reduction, IMO.

 

[Jaedar]

I don't get all the love for support and heavies. My one sniper with squadsight and assault with rapid fire did about 80% of the work. Heavies mostly just missed and supports healed when necessary. Heavy explosives are nice for when you need to capture something alive though.

 

[Monocause]

Yeah, when I first came across chrysalids in the new game I was pretty scared of them because of how they worked in the first game but after one got bit and didn't die or turn into a zombie it was kind of anti-climactic. Still they do a lot of damage, but they're not *quite* as terrifying now. Sucks when they start eating civilians and you have a zombie mob come down on you though.

Do you play on normal or classic? I first met chryssalids on classic and they one shot my assault guy who had 12 HP at that time. Ended with a party wipe as I was just too close when the 'lids showed up.

 

[Shadenuat]

I have a feeling I forgot what a good turn-based game is, so I can't figure out that I'm playing one right now. I'm playing on Classic and savescumming like shit. Killed my first Ethereal recently. The raep by GIANT WALKING ROBOTS SHOOTING LASERS AND MISSILE BARAGES was glorious, but we've managed. Snipers are overpowered like hell. Heavy guys serioulsy lack if not for their missile launchers. I'm surprised heavy weapons don't have arc-shooting.
Combat is as weird as whole game. Sometimes it brings me immense joy, when my dudes perform great overwatch, or sniper doing batman stuff on buildings and picking aliens from rooftop, or when I guess where's a room of aliens is and shoot missile at it. Just as often it brings frustration. When aliens run here and there, and my squad tries to comprehend where the hell they are, runs on a hearing signal, but WHOPSIE, no aliens there, they already moved away. It's like playing battleships. Even sensors don't help.
Or the LOS. Oh, the LOS. If I'd play Ironman, my favorite character would die on one of easiest sweeping missions, because some alien decided that shooting through truck taking whole screen, by standing in front of it's cabin why my guy standed behind it's back doors is valid. Good thing I can do something like that too, nothing is better than to shoot missile launcher into adjust room through solid wall.
If not for new enemies, missions would be very boring. They really lack any imagination, in level-design and narrative departments both. At least a few unique missions would spice things up. Boss or two maybe. Finding unique alien hiding in populated city. "Predator" parody. Working with another team. Just something *else* than crawling behind cars, trees and garbage cans, collecting shield-icons and praying you won't be one-shotted because of level-clipping issues.

 

[UncleJimb0]

I'm loving the tactical game in Classic mode, as it seems to be the sweet spot between face roll and face ripping...but the strategic layer is killing me! I'm in June of my latest play through and I have lost only 1 mission (my squaddie panicked and shot an extraction target point blank with a shotty) but I've had 5 nations withdraw already. I'm pumping satellites and juggling abductions without trying to ignore anyone...what am I doing wrong?

 

[Saduj]

Chrysalids in the new game are definitely much more of a threat than they were in the original. The AI uses them well and they come in packs of three. With one exception, every time they arrive on the scene it has been "either kill them immediately or lose at least one soldier". On a ship/base or in an urban setting they are a nightmare. They cut through buildings to avoid line of site. They climb over buildings and walls. I've even had them bunch up in the corner of a building that my soldiers were using for cover and then come out to mop up the survivors after a sectopod blew a hole in the building.

In the old game, chrysalids are often caught out in the open all by themselves and cut down at distance.

 

[Blaine]

I could never put Snipers to good use, even with the flying armor. Squadsight never worked for me. I mainly used them to scout with the probes and somehow they got killed the most of any class, despite not doing much at all. I didn't manage to get one Colonel Sniper...

It really depends on your style of play and whether or not you get to spend enough time using them that they "click" for you. Squadsight will allow your Sniper to shoot enemies up to 100 tiles away, provided at least one of your other soldiers has line-of-sight to the enemy you want to shoot. The catch is that your Sniper must also have LOS to the target. This may seem confusing, but without Squadsight, the fog of war would conceal enemies past a certain distance.

Gaining height with the jetpack eliminates the majority of intermediate LOS blockers such as ledges, large rocks, vehicles, potted plants, and so on, but not tall trees, roofs, proper walls, and so forth. It also gives you a to-hit bonus against enemies that are fairly close by compared to what you'd get if you were on their level (or lower). The final piece of the puzzle after positioning, using a spotter with Squadsight, and trying to maintain LOS to as many desirous targets (and potential targets) as possible is using various strategies to draw enemies into the Sniper's LOS. Blowing up walls and roofs with Heavies, luring enemies into open areas, or simply waiting for them to move into position with the rest of your squad Overwatching/turtling somewhere fairly safe are all possibilities.

Personally, I don't get quite as much use out of Snipers as the people who use them to kill 90% of the enemies in every mission, but they're still quite powerful for me when properly placed in the right situation.

I don't get all the love for support and heavies. My one sniper with squadsight and assault with rapid fire did about 80% of the work. Heavies mostly just missed and supports healed when necessary. Heavy explosives are nice for when you need to capture something alive though.

Support is nice until you get Ghost Armor and Chitin Plating, at which point they become ridiculous. Plug in all the gear and abilities I mentioned above and see for yourself sometime, if you're so inclined.
Heavies... are probably the one class in the game that's skippable, pairs of Sectopods notwithstanding. Outside of very limited rocket use, their versatility, mobility, damage potential and survivability are at baseline levels or just slightly above. Without their launcher they would be a shittier (though slightly different) Support or Assault.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

Typical post Civ4 Firaxis's turd.The Bioware of the TBS games,hope they go under as well, nuff said.

 

[Saduj]

I'm loving the tactical game in Classic mode, as it seems to be the sweet spot between face roll and face ripping...but the strategic layer is killing me! I'm in June of my latest play through and I have lost only 1 mission (my squaddie panicked and shot an extraction target point blank with a shotty) but I've had 5 nations withdraw already. I'm pumping satellites and juggling abductions without trying to ignore anyone...what am I doing wrong?

Other than launching satellites and timing when you take out the alien base well, managing panic seems very random to me. The choose-between-abduction-sites mechanic involves luck. Just gotta hope that the same countries aren't picked on too often. Even the missions where you don't have to choose between sites involve luck because if they don't occur in countries that are close to panic then they aren't as helpful. I don't think completing requests for equipment from individual nations effects panic at all, which makes completing these requests a bad trade in many cases.

I'm still on my first game and I had to just give up on Africa because it was targetted early and often. Nigeria and South Africa are out and Egypt is one Koran-burning incident away from full panic.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

I don't get all the love for support and heavies. My one sniper with squadsight and assault with rapid fire did about 80% of the work. Heavies mostly just missed and supports healed when necessary. Heavy explosives are nice for when you need to capture something alive though.

Bro you are out of your mind! Heavies and support are great (Just like all the classes except when you have tons of rookies turn to snipers).

A heavy with bullet swarm (Firing takes a single action so you can fire twice in a turn), a heavy laser, and HEAT ammo (+100% damage against robots) will tear cyberdiscs right the fuck up. Rockets are extremely useful for denying the enemy cover and softening them. And then when you're not against cyberdiscs, being able to fire twice in one turn is great (I HIGHLY recommend giving your heavy a scope to boost accuracy) and suppression can be really important if there's an alien you want to capture.

Supports I've been building entirely for medics in my game, BUT don't underestimate how useful 3 uses of medkit is. On top of that with the sprint ability support soldiers are the fastest, which can lead to some decent flanking shots on aliens without any special abilities. And then finally smoke grenades certainly aren't vital but they've saved my ass a few times. If you end up with a soldier in a bad position (Out in the open or flanked) haul your support over as much as you can and pop smoke. Upgraded smoke should provide 40 defense which is ROUGHLY the equivalent of high cover in terms of defense.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Yeah, when I first came across chrysalids in the new game I was pretty scared of them because of how they worked in the first game but after one got bit and didn't die or turn into a zombie it was kind of anti-climactic. Still they do a lot of damage, but they're not *quite* as terrifying now. Sucks when they start eating civilians and you have a zombie mob come down on you though.

Do you play on normal or classic? I first met chryssalids on classic and they one shot my assault guy who had 12 HP at that time. Ended with a party wipe as I was just too close when the 'lids showed up.

Yeah fair enough. The game I was talking about was on normal, I was getting ripped apart by the economy in classic because I didn't know wtf anything was. Normal gets pretty boring due to lack of difficulty all around. I've been meaning to restart on classic again but I haven't played the game in a few days.

 

[Psquit]

Oh, the LOS. If I'd play Ironman, my favorite character would die on one of easiest sweeping missions, because some alien decided that shooting through truck taking whole screen, by standing in front of it's cabin

THIS ^ . I lost all my elites because the godly sectoid sniper, doesnt give a shit if im behind a container or the thin man spawn in the roof an snipe my sniper with acid poison crap...
They need to fix the cover system like in x-com where if some one try to shoot you behind a wall, the wall gets destroyed not you...

 

[Grunker]

so, this game is pretty fucking fun

DISCLAIMER: not that far in yet

 

[Gozma]

If you end up with a soldier in a bad position (Out in the open or flanked) haul your support over as much as you can and pop smoke. Upgraded smoke should provide 40 defense which is ROUGHLY the equivalent of high cover in terms of defense.

This is a last resort because smoke doesn't give the other big benefit of cover, which is crit protection.

I don't get all the love for support and heavies. My one sniper with squadsight and assault with rapid fire did about 80% of the work. Heavies mostly just missed and supports healed when necessary. Heavy explosives are nice for when you need to capture something alive though.

Agreedo, one heavy has a niche as a holo-targeter and a heavy hitter against cyberdisks/sectopods. Supports are good for a lot of little stuff that qualifies them for 1/6th too. Otherwise - assaults, snipers, and drones. Or more realistically I get my assaults killed in the early game trying to level them up before carapace armor/dependable hit rates and then I begrudgingly use extra heavies and supports

--- How to do the strategic layer:

Spoiler

Always take engineers the first abduction, after that protect the 4-country continents (Europe and Asia) to the exclusion of all other options. Have 10 engineers at the start of month 2, build another satellite uplink and another 3 satellites for five total. Launch satellites only at the very end of the month, typically at countries that are at max panic. If you get a terror mission and do rather well (e.g. save 14-15 out of 18 civs) the entire continent will drop panic, if you get a council mission that will also drop panic, and if you had launched a satellite earlier you could waste that. Do the alien base mission in May or June and that also drops panic worldwide and lowers the incidence of abduction missions - with 12 satellites up (four uplinks) and the base mission de-panic you have pretty much solved panic on classic .

 

[Psquit]

Well fuck it, i will start a new campaing in classic but without ironman... the cover system is overkill for me.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

This is a last resort because smoke doesn't give the other big benefit of cover, which is crit protection.

Definitely. Not saying it's something you want to do often, but there are situations where having smoke available is really useful. Moving a guy in the open to snipe, stun an alien, heal someone, etc.

 

[Psquit]

i remember something funny of old x-com. You could sell alien tech or dead aliens to "Someone" its kinda funny... now you can sell alien tech for 30 bucks or sectoid corpses for 5... lol
"Hyuuk, ill pay you 5 bucks for that dead alien, my truck needs a trophy"

 

[20 Eyes]

After reading some good words from MHC and some other sources, I was curious and 'downloaded' it. After playing it for a few hours, I liked it so much I had to buy it. The Codex Pre-Release Cryathon was so wrong. I'm not reading 70 pages, so forgive me if I repeat anything that's already been said.

The game is obviously made with consoles in mind, with the shitty camera controls being the biggest red flag. But overall the game is a very fun squad-based turn-based game. I've been playing on Classic (no ironman mode, but I'm not saving during battles). Classic isn't quite as punishing as the original, but rookies are still incompetent and a lucky shot from the enemy can still cause a panic spiral and ruin your day. I left my favorite character (a clutch heavy) in a bad position for just one turn a few battles ago, and now his name is decorating the memorial. One thing is as my characters grow stronger, the enemy doesn't seem to be keeping up. I'm starting to think Iron-Man mode is the way to play the game, because it seems the game was balanced around higher-leveled soldiers being rarer. I think I'll start an Ironman game the next time I play, now that I know the ropes a bit.

Strategic mode is quite different, but I like a lot of the changes. Resources, at least so far, are scarce and you really have to make big sacrifices and calculate the risk involved whenever you make a big purchase. At first, the limited Sky-Ranger annoyed me. But after I thought about it, the Abduction Missions (where you have to pick which of three nations to save) are supposed to represent wide-spread panic. Even if you had the resources to send out 10 teams, the game could just say 30 cities were being attacked if it wanted to put you in the same position. It doesn't make sense logically, but as a game mechanic I understand why they keep you to one Sky-Ranger.

Pros:
-More involved character building creates a stronger bond between the player and his team
-Strategic Mode resources are scarcer than in the original, forces tough choices
-Still a lot of fun either tactically or strategically
-Still not afraid to fuck the player sans-lube
-Strategic Mode really makes you feel like the world is collapsing
-Upgrading your team is pretty cool, classes are a nice addition

Cons:
-Annoying camera obviously designed for consoles
-It's made in 2012, so it has a lot of the usual bullshit associated with that (pre-release DLC, ect)
-This might be nitpicking, but I find it annoying: you can usually tell whether a shot is going to hit or miss before the animation even shoots

Just different:
-Smaller scale: one base, one skyranger, less troops, and smaller maps
-Different art direction (personally, I think it looks great unless you color your troops like a bag of Skittles)

 

[Black]

I may had been to fast on judging the game, since there are some good ideas and it shows they've put effort into it. Of course, as a multi-plat, it's much dumbed down compared to 1994 X-Com and its main flaw is that it's called XCom. Had it been called Xenocide or something I wouldn't be so against it. As it is, it's a nice x-com-clone-lite with surprisingly cool difficulty (despite much dumbing down) that shoots itself in the foot by setting the bar too high and acting like it's a successor to X-Com.
It's not.

 

[Monocause]

-This might be nitpicking, but I find it annoying: you can usually tell whether a shot is going to hit or miss before the animation even shoots

This. It bugged me too that whenever the camera shows the shooting guy at a specific angle (and when it's the aliens it's all shaky) then you know it's going to be a kill. I have to finally turn the action cam off, though it's a shame cause I like it for the most part, I'd just prefer it to be more random.

As to the 'balanced for lower level chars' thing, I don't really think so. Balance seems to be OK, in my experience whenever I felt too comfortable usually some new type of alien would show up that would possess the ability to fuck all my plans over. The difficulty level seems just right to me for most of the game on classic. I think that people who baww that it's too easy are compulsive savescummers who first complain that something is 'too random' and then find the game too easy because they reload until they find the optimal solution and breeze through the level. Part of the experience is accepting the RNG which at some point simply must screw you over even if your tactics are spotless.

I don't play ironman cause I like being able to reload after, say, a misclick or after a complete fuckup that would force me to restart, but I don't savescum either and if I just stomach the losses.

 

[Lottie]

If you end up with a soldier in a bad position (Out in the open or flanked) haul your support over as much as you can and pop smoke. Upgraded smoke should provide 40 defense which is ROUGHLY the equivalent of high cover in terms of defense.

This is a last resort because smoke doesn't give the other big benefit of cover, which is crit protection.

I don't get all the love for support and heavies. My one sniper with squadsight and assault with rapid fire did about 80% of the work. Heavies mostly just missed and supports healed when necessary. Heavy explosives are nice for when you need to capture something alive though.

Agreedo, one heavy has a niche as a holo-targeter and a heavy hitter against cyberdisks/sectopods. Supports are good for a lot of little stuff that qualifies them for 1/6th too. Otherwise - assaults, snipers, and drones.

You couldnt be more wrong. Shame upon Zomg's name.

Shivs are shit. They have nothing going for them compared to soldiers. They might have a hitpoint advantage for a small timeframe if you research all the wrong things.

Snipers are very limited in movement as Squadsighted ones are or are a questionable version of Support.

Assaults are suicide bombers. They are a last chance joker or, interestingly, scout/spotter.
Considering how the game mechanics are, with enemies spawning by 3 and the Assault's bread and butter being Run and Gun, they either take down the last man standing or pray on alien movement.

Now, Heavies rock. Literally. Each one has 3 rockets (on last level) with a huge radius of damage. They have already 2 rockets on third? level.. A late game team with 3 or 4 of them can completely

eradicates armies upon their spotting and "dispersing". Or soften them so much up that a niche Assault/Sniper/Support can take the last one down before any enemy fire is made.

Considering the ideal tactic on Classic being:
1. skipping turns till the game gives you the i-win sound direction to the next alien "spawn point"
2. one spotter moving a halfstep forward with the rest of the team a halfstep back in cover and overwatch
3. on enemy free move either the overwatched team blast half the enemy or on my turn, heavies will blow the tightly packed enemies to smithereens
4. never! close in with your assault spotter! why? cause he could die? no. because it could trigger more enemy team spawns but if you stay put or fall back, they wont come for you, except maybe on those very small "very difficult" abduction maps and terror missions

In conclusion:

Surprisingly, you right on the money with the strategic level. I went the exact same route, down to the same number of satellites build in parallel

Regarding the original quote. If you get flanked and have to use smoke to get out of it. You are doing something very, very wrong.