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X-COM Firaxis - XCOM: Enemy Unknown + Enemy Within Expansion

sea

inXile Entertainment
Developer
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
5,698
Installered a mod which removes the aim penalties for higher difficulty, but does nothing else (granted I had to tweak an existing mod to remove the other stuff). Game is still challenging (at least in the beginning), still don't have good aim (46% or so when guys are behind low cover), money is tight, my guys keep getting wounded and out of comission for one or two missions.

The special abilities of the classes make the game fun.
I highly recommend this mod. Magical aim bonuses for the AI are fucking idiotic and I am offended Firaxis put that in the game (without outright telling you the AI cheats).
 

Mangoose

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
26,811
Location
I'm a Banana
Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity
Installered a mod which removes the aim penalties for higher difficulty, but does nothing else (granted I had to tweak an existing mod to remove the other stuff). Game is still challenging (at least in the beginning), still don't have good aim (46% or so when guys are behind low cover), money is tight, my guys keep getting wounded and out of comission for one or two missions.

The special abilities of the classes make the game fun.
LINK, MOTHERFUCEKR
 

Behelit

Augur
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
103
My Klassy Kodex Kompanions lend me your eyes.

Note, it's required to start a new campaign if you install version 1.31!



Things that have changed:

Weapons rebalanced:
- Conventional weapons are now average. Nothing special about them. They are good allround. You could theoretically play the entire game using them.
- Lasers do a bit more damage, are more accurate and don't need to reload. But sometimes they do low damage. Their damage output can be unreliable.
- Plasma weapons do a lot of damage and have very high critical damage. But they are less accurate, which makes them hard to use, especially by rookies.
- The environment can take on a few more plasma hits before being destroyed. This allows the player to make better use of cover and play more tactically. (Little unsure...I thought it worked fine)
- Arc Thrower now goes in the pistol slot. Apart from that, it works the same as in vanilla. (Lazerz & ark! Yeah buddy!)
- Different weapon types have different accuracy settings. Least to most accurate: Shotgun, LMG, Rifle, Sniper.
- On top of that, different weapon tiers have different accuracy levels.
- Pistols need to be reloaded (except the Laser pistol).
- Shotguns do more damage but have a bit less accuracy compared to rifles. Shotguns should be more useful now.
- The sniper rifle's close range accuracy penalty has been removed. It still needs two moves to be able to fire, I think that's harsh enough. (Very stupid tweak, imo)


Enemies rebalanced:
- Enemies have been changed in such a way that combat becomes more logical, resulting in more fluid battles.
- Enemies won't cheat as much. If something bad happens, you'll know it's probably because you screwed up or because the enemy AI made a good decision.
- Smaller enemies are a bit harder to hit and large enemies a bit easier. This is balanced by accuracy and/or movement speed advantages/disadvantages. (Reminds me of Vince's recent overhaul of the Shield system)
- When a Chryssalid kills a civilian offscreen, the civilian will now always turn into a zombie.
- The AI will now always use more than 5 NPCs in combat, instead of hiding when the NPC limit is reached.


Strategical map rebalanced:
- The missions the player ignores won't increase the panic level of entire continents anymore, but only of specific countries, and panic penalties are larger now.
- This allows the player to somewhat direct the spread of panic and have more control over the strategic map. But there's still some luck involved.
- Countries have a small chance to leave the council at the end of the month when their panic level reaches level 4.
- Having a satellite in the continent or country drastically reduces the chances of leaving at panic level 4.
- Satellites are much more likely to decrease panic levels inside the country they are positioned in at the end of the month.
- Normal satellites have a very tiny chance not to be destroyed by UFOs when undefended.
- Stealth satellites have a high chance not to be destroyed by UFOs when undefended.
- European countries give slightly more money to give the player an incentive to put your satellites there.
- There's slightly a higher chance that UFOs will show up.
- UFOs doing missions (Terror, Abduction, etc) can be intercepted sometimes before they start their mission.
- The Research Lab's effectiveness has been increased. It's very effective at decreasing research times.
- Research time has been slightly increased to give the Research Lab a useful purpose.
- Facility maintainance costs have been increased, so that you won't be swimming in cash later in the game.
- Workshops are enabled from the start, allowing the player to begin the strategic game with a different starting move, if so desired.


Characters rebalanced:
- Rookies start with a bit less Will, but now you get more tools to combat panic.
- Human soldiers gain a bit more Will with each level.
- Armor plays a large role in how fast soldiers will panic. The higher the HP bonus you give your soldiers, the smaller the chances of panic.
- Just like armors, higher tier weapons provide a Will bonus, but a very small one. See it as a confidence boost.
- Human soldiers who panic won't try to kill your own soldiers anymore.
- Game balance doesn't resolve around your soldiers getting killed, but instead around your soldiers recovering for a much longer time.
- Soldiers who take damage during missions will be recovering for a MUCH longer time, especially if they are "gravely injured".
- You can avoid this by giving your soldiers better armor. Your soldiers will only become wounded if they lose all their hitpoints provided by the armor.
- Armors are now more likely to protect your soldiers from getting wounded.
- Soldiers who got shot can be kept in the rear to make sure they don't get shot again and then need to recover for a long time.
- Needlessly leading your soldiers to their deaths is not cost effective in the long run.
- SHIV tanks take a few more days to be repaired when heavily damaged.


Armors rebalanced:
- Armors are divided into Heavy Armors and Light Armors.
- Heavy armors consist of the Carapace, Titan and Archangel. Light armors consist of the Skeleton, Ghost and Psi armor.
- Heavy armors provide more armor than the light armors.
- Heavy armors provide two item slots. Light armors only one.
- Carapace reduces mobility by 1 square, Titan and Archangel by 2. Light armors increase mobility by 3 squares.
- Heavy armors increase Will a lot. Light armors increase Will a bit less. Secondary armors (the ones that go in the item slot) also provide a Will boost.
- Light armors increase the chances of evading incoming fire.
- Light armors have special mobility abilities (except Psi armor) that allow them to move around the battlefield with more ease.
- Secondary armors provide a bit more HP now, making them great for use with the heavy armors that have increased inventory space.


General Tweaks:
- Normal, Classic and Impossible difficulty levels should be the same now, apart from hard-coded differences, like more enemies and unlocking the full AI.
- Basically, if you want full AI, play on Classic or Impossible.
- Keep in mind, this mod was made for the Classic difficulty level, but Impossible should work too. AI is shackled on Normal, so don't play that!
- Second Wave is enabled. You'll need to finish the game first to unlock it, or download a profile which has it unlocked already (See Second Wave mod).
- Second Wave Marathon mode is fixed. You can build the Hyperwave Relay with just one Hyperwave Beacon.


http://xcom.nexusmods.com/mods/18/#content
 

Monocause

Arcane
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
3,656
I highly recommend this mod. Magical aim bonuses for the AI are fucking idiotic and I am offended Firaxis put that in the game (without outright telling you the AI cheats).

http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/655782-xcom-enemy-unknown/faqs/65123

Scroll down to the enemies section. Which magical bonuses? Critter stats seem reasonable for classic mode and seem like the most reasonable balance to provide a challenge for your guys.

That's just a stupid mod. Classic doesn't need changes like this, especially not ones in favour of the player. The overhaul Behelit posted seems much more interesting, but I'm too burned out with the vanilla game to give it a try. I'll probably give it a spin again around x-mas, two or three DLCs should be out (at least according to the ingame files). Game needs more variety in all respects and I hope the DLCs will provide just that while maintaining the balance.
 

Gozma

Arcane
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Messages
2,951
I will never understand bitching about AI "cheating" by difficulty level, you are not playing an independent mind you are solving a puzzle

The difficulty levels in EU are quite good and create real qualitative breaks. I don't give a fuck what the particular mechanics used to generate those qualitative breaks are

Normal is an idiot game fit for some like your small brother

Classic you have to think about cover. Generally speaking if you burn any "consumable" like a grenade you win, if you are in better cover you win, if you get past the early game you win. The strategic game is easy but loseable. A TBS fan can start up the game and play classic ironman as the first game and have a good time - I did

Impossible you lose every time you have a real, non-ambush firefight - someone useful is going to get maimed at the very least. You generally have to win by outright manipulation of the AI or exploiting other abusive game mechanics. You have to know the general flowchart of the maps.

Also I can recommend a fun difficulty mod (for people that don't know the maps). It is called "start the game on classic for the first two months, then switch it to impossible in May".
 

sea

inXile Entertainment
Developer
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
5,698
http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/655782-xcom-enemy-unknown/faqs/65123

Scroll down to the enemies section. Which magical bonuses? Critter stats seem reasonable for classic mode and seem like the most reasonable balance to provide a challenge for your guys.

That's just a stupid mod. Classic doesn't need changes like this, especially not ones in favour of the player. The overhaul Behelit posted seems much more interesting, but I'm too burned out with the vanilla game to give it a try. I'll probably give it a spin again around x-mas, two or three DLCs should be out (at least according to the ingame files). Game needs more variety in all respects and I hope the DLCs will provide just that while maintaining the balance.
I'm pretty sure the AI gets a permanent +10 bonus to accuracy and critical chance or something to that effect.

http://xcom.nexusmods.com/mods/10
 

Monk

Arcane
Joined
Feb 8, 2010
Messages
9,151
Location
Wat
Minus cinematics and with the major problems fixed, this would look good as a free browser game.
 

JrK

Prophet
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
1,764
Location
Speaking to the Sea
I'm pretty sure the AI gets a permanent +10 bonus to accuracy and critical chance or something to that effect.

http://xcom.nexusmods.com/mods/10

This is the mod I am using, without the extra UFOs (will try that later), and I bumped the time to build satellites back to 20 days. Required some tweaking of said mod.

That's just a stupid mod. Classic doesn't need changes like this, especially not ones in favour of the player. The overhaul Behelit posted seems much more interesting, but I'm too burned out with the vanilla game to give it a try.

That overhaul makes things way too easy because your starting weapons are as powerful as the rest. There is a weapon 'balance' making laser weapons overall most accurate, but plasma most damaging and starter weapons average. Which means you can now instakill enemies behind cover without flanking, unlike vanilla classic. This also ruins the sense of progression. Why research?

Regarding the repetitive maps, that is the game's biggest problem at the moment. They should have made some kind of random map generator.
 

Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
I highly recommend this mod. Magical aim bonuses for the AI are fucking idiotic and I am offended Firaxis put that in the game (without outright telling you the AI cheats).

What is supposed to be so bad about a slight aim bonus?
It makes the aliens a bit more dangerous and is a complementary change to generally better AI. The aliens, as a different "race" do not directly compare to your guys anyway, so I don't see what's supposed to be "cheating" with the increased aim of aliens on higher difficulty.
At least we're not talking about the usual lazy "just increase health and damage output and call it a day".
 

kris

Arcane
Joined
Oct 27, 2004
Messages
8,917
Location
Lulea, Sweden
Installered a mod which removes the aim penalties for higher difficulty, but does nothing else (granted I had to tweak an existing mod to remove the other stuff). Game is still challenging (at least in the beginning), still don't have good aim (46% or so when guys are behind low cover), money is tight, my guys keep getting wounded and out of comission for one or two missions.

The special abilities of the classes make the game fun.
I highly recommend this mod. Magical aim bonuses for the AI are fucking idiotic and I am offended Firaxis put that in the game (without outright telling you the AI cheats).

there is nothing magical or strange about a aim bonus for the AI. Basically it just means they are better soldiers or have a higher level. Otherwise the AI don't have levelling soldiers, they just have better types. I think a change like this is perfectly okay. Worse is a aim penalty for your soldiers as I think they should not become more incompetent at a higher difficult.

But what really irks me is things like in the Paradox games were your armies is simply put just worse at a higher difficult. That is a really bad way of doing it IMO.
 

sea

inXile Entertainment
Developer
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
5,698
What is supposed to be so bad about a slight aim bonus?
It makes the aliens a bit more dangerous and is a complementary change to generally better AI. The aliens, as a different "race" do not directly compare to your guys anyway, so I don't see what's supposed to be "cheating" with the increased aim of aliens on higher difficulty.
At least we're not talking about the usual lazy "just increase health and damage output and call it a day".
I guess the issue is that it lets them make cheap shots that you could generally never get, and they get far more lucky crits than you do, which isn't really harder on a tactical level, it's just an artificial handicap, which I do not like. It's like the computer getting bonus resources in StarCraft, or being able to see the entire map without fog of war, etc. Technically speaking true symmetrical single-player against AI is impossible, but I prefer it when developers try their best to achieve it.

Also, I wouldn't complain if they had reserved that for impossible or something. Problem is a) they don't tell you the AI get bonuses on classic and b) there are already more enemies who have much better tactics on classic to begin with, so being able to play "as it was intended" without cheats is impossible without mods, because otherwise you are stuck with a dumbed-down AI, fewer enemies, etc. if you want to play "fair" on normal.
 

Jick Magger

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
5,667
Location
New Zealand
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Bubbles In Memoria
Been playing for a fair amount of time now, and I'm still trying to figure out what the fuck causes your rookies to become heavies. Basically every other class I've got down in terms of triggers except the damn heavies.
Don't get me wrong, I like supports and assaults, but when my only two fucking heavies (both of which I only got through plot mandatory shit and an abduction reward) are injured and I have to quell a terror attack with a bunch of fucking half-cocked assaults and snipers. Well, shit gets grating.
Also, my best sniper was a nigger who'd panic at a skinned fucking knee. Had to finally let him go when one of his shit-fits exposed his plump anus to a Cyberdisc.
Godamnit.
 

Gozma

Arcane
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Messages
2,951
Pretty sure there are no triggers, you can reload a game on the last turn of a mission and do shit in a slightly different order than last time (so the RNG point changes) and the rookies turn into different classes. The only help the game gives you is to make it certain that all four rookies in the first mission turn into different classes if they live. And it sucks because if you don't have at least two heavies for April on impossible it is gonna be a shitstorm of 6 hit point thin men and floaters that can crit-kill people that are hunkered down in high cover.
 

Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
Is this really determined by something you do?
I thought it would just be completely random. OTOH, I get mostly snipers and heavies, but almost no assault and support.
Could very well be RNG screwing you, the sample size is rather small for me, but I'm not sure.

Also isn't there an upgrade from the Officer's school, making rookies start as squadies, i.e. shouldn't they start with a class? How is it determined then if not randomly?

Also, I wouldn't complain if they had reserved that for impossible or something. Problem is a) they don't tell you the AI get bonuses on classic and b) there are already more enemies who have much better tactics on classic to begin with, so being able to play "as it was intended" without cheats is impossible without mods, because otherwise you are stuck with a dumbed-down AI, fewer enemies, etc. if you want to play "fair" on normal.

Playing as "intended" is a difficult metric if they obviously intend the aliens to have better aim. :troll:
Seriously though, I still don't see this as real cheating, the aliens can not be translated 1:1 to humans. It's like complaining that Beholders have all those special powers in a DnD rpg, while your mage only gets shitty magic missile.
Would you be playing against humans and they would always get a bonus over your guys, regardless of level, maybe I'd call it cheating.
But if they'd say, e.g. you are up against battle-hardened veteran alien soldiers on classic, would you still consider it cheating that they have slightly better stats?
 

circ

Arcane
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
11,470
Location
Great Pacific Garbage Patch
Class assignment is completely random as far as I can tell because if you take the officer school upgrade that makes everyone start out as squaddies instead of rookies, they'll already be assigned a class.
 

spectre

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,641
RNG can be a bitch. A friend of mine got nothing but snipers during one playthrough (seriously, nearly 3/4 of his dudes) , I remember I could only get my hands on one support for the entire game (spent 200$ on recruits and got 2 more... but they were instakilled whenever I tried to level them up), but other than that I got assaults, heavies and snipers in equal proportions. I don't think you can influence it in any way, thought so at first, but I think it's pretty much confirmation bias.

When it comes to AI cheating, on the one hand I am butthurt about the insance critical hits the AI gets at times; on the other, it forces me to use every trick in the book to get the upper hand.
If it was possible to simply outshoot the aliens from behind cover, the game would have been too easy (ironic that people would call it "popamole", when it actually isn't), starting at classic, trading shots is not the way to go which forces me to look for options to flank aggressively, I think that's actually a good thing. The amount of criticals may need to be turned down a bit, but notice that the aliens do not seem to have an equivalent of the rocket launcher, squad sight, run and gun, lightning reflexes and many other useful abilities. Giving it some "cheats" is a nice way to balance it out, imo. And I think it's not necessarily bad, as long as you can still beat the AI in a "fair" fight, by just using the various options available.

Now, let's compare it to the cheating AI in Civ, which is an implementation I hate with a passion. The AI gets so many production and research bonii, that you cannot even dream to keep the pace. Even if you use wonders for tech slingshot, the AI will outperform you (and it will even be able to produce two things at once in one city!). Your only option is to say fuck this and throw as many units at the AI as you can - which means science and cultural victories go out of the window - that's a clear case of a bad cheating AI I think.

In comparison, XCOM AI commits a different sin, its advantage lies in skewing the random chance in its favor. It would be fine, if it were more subtle. Unfortunately, as it is, it undermines one of the core game mechanics - high cover and hunker down. My opinion is, that the design principle should be thus: when I hunker down behind high cover, I deserve to feel safe from random shots with a degree of certainly. That's what the description says, so when it doesn't I am forced to say: fuck you Jake Salomon, this is NOT xcom, baby.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
27,900
Location
Copenhagen
I don't get the complaining over the RNG. I treat this game as a roguelike where each playthrough is basically different based on a number of factors. RNG only contributes to this, and lucky enemy shots or something like that simply makes me have to deal with that shit. I don't really care that I get fucked over big time or the reverse, it just changes the current game and I have to adapt accordingly.

It's not like the RNG in Age of Decadence where getting arbitrarily screwed on one point can ruin the current game, IMO.
 

sea

inXile Entertainment
Developer
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
5,698
The amount of criticals may need to be turned down a bit, but notice that the aliens do not seem to have an equivalent of the rocket launcher, squad sight, run and gun, lightning reflexes and many other useful abilities. Giving it some "cheats" is a nice way to balance it out, imo. And I think it's not necessarily bad, as long as you can still beat the AI in a "fair" fight, by just using the various options available.
The rocket launcher and other extremely powerful stuff the player gets should be balanced by what the AI is capable of, preferably in a like-for-like fashion. Why can't the AI launch rockets, or even throw grenades until the very late game? I don't know - the AI get all sorts of powerful counters, better guns, etc., maybe it was decided a rocket launcher was "cheap" even though they can insta-kill you in melee, spawn extra enemies, spawn out of nowhere when you complete objectives, etc. Maybe it's because the rocket launcher is available immediately, while the aliens don't get their powerful abilities until much later?

Now, let's compare it to the cheating AI in Civ, which is an implementation I hate with a passion. The AI gets so many production and research bonii, that you cannot even dream to keep the pace. Even if you use wonders for tech slingshot, the AI will outperform you (and it will even be able to produce two things at once in one city!). Your only option is to say fuck this and throw as many units at the AI as you can - which means science and cultural victories go out of the window - that's a clear case of a bad cheating AI I think.
Except Civ has a difficulty setting (4/10) which gives the AI no bonuses at all. On easier settings, you get bonuses. The entire point of deity mode etc. is that the AI cheats mercilessly - they tell you as much.

In comparison, XCOM AI commits a different sin, its advantage lies in skewing the random chance in its favor. It would be fine, if it were more subtle. Unfortunately, as it is, it undermines one of the core game mechanics - high cover and hunker down. My opinion is, that the design principle should be thus: when I hunker down behind high cover, I deserve to feel safe from random shots with a degree of certainly. That's what the description says, so when it doesn't I am forced to say: fuck you Jake Salomon, this is NOT xcom, baby.[/quote]
 

Gozma

Arcane
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Messages
2,951
I don't get the complaining over the RNG. I treat this game as a roguelike where each playthrough is basically different based on a number of factors. RNG only contributes to this, and lucky enemy shots or something like that simply makes me have to deal with that shit. I don't really care that I get fucked over big time or the reverse, it just changes the current game and I have to adapt accordingly.

It's not like the RNG in Age of Decadence where getting arbitrarily screwed on one point can ruin the current game, IMO.

I said it before but randomness is not a genuine issue outside of first and maybe second month of impossible ironman. But it is an issue there. There are abduction maps that are ridiculously harder than others on impossible, like ones with no LOS breakers or flanking routes or with multiple patrols that pop in on top of the starting position. Several bomb defuse council missions require tremendous luck, while the other types of council mission are not too bad. You need heavies badly and might not get them. But I can't really fault the game for making the "too hard to be fun" difficulty level too hard.
 

Behelit

Augur
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
103
I'm pretty sure the AI gets a permanent +10 bonus to accuracy and critical chance or something to that effect.

http://xcom.nexusmods.com/mods/10

This is the mod I am using, without the extra UFOs (will try that later), and I bumped the time to build satellites back to 20 days. Required some tweaking of said mod.

That's just a stupid mod. Classic doesn't need changes like this, especially not ones in favour of the player. The overhaul Behelit posted seems much more interesting, but I'm too burned out with the vanilla game to give it a try.

That overhaul makes things way too easy because your starting weapons are as powerful as the rest. There is a weapon 'balance' making laser weapons overall most accurate, but plasma most damaging and starter weapons average. Which means you can now instakill enemies behind cover without flanking, unlike vanilla classic. This also ruins the sense of progression. Why research?

Regarding the repetitive maps, that is the game's biggest problem at the moment. They should have made some kind of random map generator.

Instakilling enemies without flanking? How the hell did you make this mental leap? From my short experience with the mod so far, it was not uncommon to have a 12% chance of popping sectoids behind cover. At the very most a 55ish percent when I got a flank. Granted they were rookies but your claim is disingenuous when you haven't even tested the mod yourself. As for the weapons as I interpret them

Ballistics: Jack of all trades
Moderate accuracy
Lowest Max damage

Good for primarily disposing of low tier critters like sectoids. Shortcomings are obvious against damage sponges like cyber discs.

Lasers: The Gambler
High accuracy
No reload necessary
Has a higher & lower min and max than ballistics.

Can either rescue you or fuck you. I assume the min can be so low that its entirely possible it wouldn't one shot 3HP sectoids.
But one way or another you'll be landing hits more frequently than your squad buddies. A god send for supports since they are always wasting ammo.

Plasma: L33T T3AR
Low accuracy
High criticals
High damage

Weapon of choice for the Kompetent Kodex Kompanions. Only officers have the privilege of top class weaponry for top shelf enemies. Popamole plebs don't have the mental finesse to wield such weapons of mass destruction.

I dunno about you bruh but I think it digs more tactical depth in the game.
 

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