Game News First work in progress screenshot of Wasteland 2 revealed

[TwinkieGorilla]

The real problem here seem to be some individuals getting their panties in a twist because apparently nobody is allowed to dislike it.

Yeah, no. Some people are putting panties in a blender and drinking it for breakfast because some of you seem to only have one button to press when it comes time to discussing anything: ZOMGPERBOLE!

And yeah, sonny. Y'all are fucking mighty annoying at it so cheers.

All I see in this thread, Metro nailed:

Old school developer revives a classic turn based RPG and Codex proceeds to bitch about graphics (in a pre-alpha build). Carry on.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Well, if said developer showed more than a few models placed on a small map, I'm sure that the Codex would have been more than happy to bitch about something more worthwhile, but so far the developer has shown no interest in discussing mechanics and concepts.

The screen staged shot looks pretty bland, as others have mentioned. It looks like any cheap action RPG where some heroes are battling a giant monster amid glowing particle effects. It looks cartoony (especially the giant ladder) and doesn't really show much. I assume that Fargo released it to show something and see if people dig the style. I guess he has his answer.

 

[Infinitron]

Well, if said developer showed more than a few models placed on a small map, I'm sure that the Codex would have been more than happy to bitch about something more worthwhile, but so far the developer has shown no interest in discussing mechanics and concepts.

The screen staged shot looks pretty bland, as others have mentioned. It looks like any cheap action RPG where some heroes are battling a giant monster amid glowing particle effects. It looks cartoony (especially the giant ladder) and doesn't really show much. I assume that Fargo released it to show something and see if people dig the style. I guess he has his answer.

Well, according to you, at this point there should have been no chance of them releasing anything at all since there's no way they can finish the game in the allotted timespan.

 

[Vault Dweller]

First, that's not what I said. I said that they can't make a decent 'full-scale' (using Tim Cain's term) RPG in 18 months. I'm sure they can make some kinda RPG though.

Second, I didn't expect him to be able to show a real in-game screenshot, so I'm not complaining. A staged shot is all he can show, but this stage shot isn't very interesting. It doesn't show cool style, it doesn't ooze atmosphere, it doesn't show interesting character design, t doesn't show interesting combat concepts (they are standing in the open and shooting at it). It shows a giant robot that doesn't look like the one in the first game (i.e. not a tank), so screw the canon and 'realism', tiny figures, cartoony gas station, and overly colorful environmental effects.

What else is there to say?

 

[Infinitron]

Nothing. Perhaps they shouldn't have released it.

 

[General Maxson]

Nothing. Perhaps they shouldn't have released it.

They fuckin' should if this is their idea of W2 "art direction". At least some people that supported them can say they don't like it, before it's to late (even if they won't change it).

 

[PorkaMorka]

Question for game experts:

With the budget and engine that Wasteland 2 is using, would it be reasonable to expect that their environments could look as good as the ones in Silent Storm and/or Soldiers: Heroes of WW2 / Faces of War?

Because those are some pretty old games, which contained relatively detailed[1], relatively realistic / non cartoony looking "isometric"[2] 3d environments, that you could destroy. I naturally assumed that Wasteland 2 could look like that, but maybe it's unrealistic to obtain even that level of graphical quality, since W2 won't have the advantage of cheap East European labor.

Should I lower my expectations further?

[1] Still low detail compared to 2d games, of course. But destructible and not cartoonish.

[2] Not really isometric of course, but you know what I mean.

 

[Infinitron]

Question for game experts:

With the budget and engine that Wasteland 2 is using, would it be reasonable to expect that their environments could look as good as the ones in Silent Storm and/or Soldiers: Heroes of WW2 / Faces of War?

Because those are some pretty old games, which contained relatively detailed[1], relatively realistic / non cartoony looking "isometric"[2] 3d environments, that you could destroy. I naturally assumed that Wasteland 2 could look like that, but maybe it's unrealistic to obtain even that level of graphical quality, since W2 won't have the advantage of cheap East European labor.

Should I lower my expectations further?

[1] Still low detail compared to 2d games, of course. But destructible and not cartoonish.

[2] Not really isometric of course, but you know what I mean.

Cheap labour is an important factor. How long did it take to develop those games?

 

[Charles-cgr]

I suggest pondering what the battle against that scorpitron could look like. Blasting the legs with RPG-7s to hinder its movement. Or using stealth to plant explosives. Avoiding melee to not get "stung" by the tail. And just seeing that thing move when its turn is up...

Let's show some optimism

 

[Vault Dweller]

With the budget and engine that Wasteland 2 is using, would it be reasonable to expect that their environments could look as good as the ones in Silent Storm and/or Soldiers: Heroes of WW2 / Faces of War?

It depends on his artists. Clearly, 3D environments can't look as good as BG/IWD backgrounds, but they certainly can look as good as SS (which looked good but didn't raise any bars).

Should I lower my expectations further?

My main concern is this:

"Now once we have established those key points, we’ll go silent for a little while, but then we go into beta test, right? Well what is beta test? It is just audience participation. I don’t think Blizzard is afraid to do beta test. I don’t think Valve is afraid to do beta test. And they have to make changes based upon that input. So we’re not going to get in there in the beginning and say "Do you like the way this sentence reads?" you know? "Do you like the way this music sounds?" We’re not going to go there. We’re not going to go into every nuance of the detail."

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featu...2/interview-wasteland-2-39-s-brian-fargo.aspx

 

[Vault Dweller]

Cheap labour is an important factor. How long did it take to develop those games?

The engine alone was in development for over 3 years (which brings us to my earlier point).

 

[Pegultagol]

I don't mind the graphics per se, but would like to see more of animation and effects like dust. If the environment is destructive, and the art is consistent through a variety of locales that the game will portray, then I am entirely satisfied with this level of graphical fidelity. This is work in progress, the positive thing being that Fargo is beholden to his supporters to go through feedback and change certain elements if needs be. But I am ok with where the graphics are, they don't occupy that large a requirement to suspend my disbelief.

Someone mentioned how it could improve with post processing, would it be similar on the level of a rather bad photoshop job?

 

[Morkar Left]

When they said they are going 3D I expected something in the quality of Van Buren or The Fall - Last Days of Gaia. Considering that it is a first engine design draft without any fx in it my expectations are fullfilled. It looks already better than AoD/ Deadstate for example. Not that I think that they look bad.

And I think it's funny that some people here start complaining that the scorpitron doesn't look like the one from W1. That was already clear because the new scorpitron was one of the first pictures released right from the start. And everybody was fapping about it (like myself).

 

[circ]

Personally preferring AoD/Deadstate by comparison. Textures are too soft and blurred.

 

[Ethan Duvall]

Cheap labour is an important factor. How long did it take to develop those games?

The engine alone was in development for over 3 years (which brings us to my earlier point).

So you say Fargo wont deliver? If you had Fargo's potato what would you do?

 

[Vault Dweller]

I say that I agree with Tim Cain that you need at least 3 years to make a full-scale RPG (unless you have a ready engine with all the systems and most assets (KOTOR2). I say that nothing I've seen, including two previous Fargo's games (mediocre action RPGs that were in development for about 2 years), indicates that it's possible to make a decent, full-scale RPG in 18 months.

The fact that Fargo promised to deliver a game in 18 months without an engine is sort of scary. I hoped that 500k was a price to get that Obsidian's engine, which is RPG-ready and comes with people who know it well, but it wasn't the case.

Thus, there are two possibilities - Fargo delivers a very light RPG too heavy on the action side or he takes a LOT longer than 18 months. The former is more likely than the latter.

 

[Ethan Duvall]

But Fargo said:

The tools today allow us to make more progress in 3 months than what would have taken a year when we made our RPGs in the 90's.

They are using RPG ready kits like http://rpg-kit.com/

Can you comment that?

 

[Vault Dweller]

But Fargo said:
"The tools today allow us to make more progress in 3 months than what would have taken a year when we made our RPGs in the 90's."

Is that why it took him 2 years to make an action RPG?

For reference, Tim Cain's quote is fairly recent and takes his post 90's experience into consideration.

They are using RPG ready kits like http://rpg-kit.com/

Watched the videos - very, very generic. Good for someone who wants to make a game without delving into programming of more complex tools, but I'd expect a bit more from WL2.

 

[Infinitron]

The real question is, will it get a better reception on the Codex than AOD?

 

[circ]

Ok VD, not saying I disagree with you or anything but. This time the publisher interference is out, so you can just concentrate on coding and ideas and not halting every few weeks when the publisher decides to change some specs. That matter at all?

 

[Vault Dweller]

The real question is, will it get a better reception on the Codex than AOD?

As long as he doesn't make it too hard...

 

[Vault Dweller]

Ok VD, not saying I disagree with you or anything but. This time the publisher interference is out, so you can just concentrate on coding and ideas and not halting every few weeks when the publisher decides to change some specs. That matter at all?

I don't see how. Sure, dealing with publishers and wasting time on meetings showing milestones and arguing with idiots are annoying, but it's not a huge time-waster and it doesn't involve everyone anyway. It won't change 3 years into 1.5.

 

[Curious_Tongue]

I say that I agree with Tim Cain that you need at least 3 years to make a full-scale RPG (unless you have a ready engine with all the systems and most assets (KOTOR2). I say that nothing I've seen, including two previous Fargo's games (mediocre action RPGs that were in development for about 2 years), indicates that it's possible to make a decent, full-scale RPG in 18 months.

Those ARPGs were the only thing that he could get publishers to back. I don't think it's fair to judge him on those two games.

The fact that Fargo promised to deliver a game in 18 months without an engine is sort of scary. I hoped that 500k was a price to get that Obsidian's engine, which is RPG-ready and comes with people who know it well, but it wasn't the case.

Thus, there are two possibilities - Fargo delivers a very light RPG too heavy on the action side or he takes a LOT longer than 18 months. The former is more likely than the latter.

It's not like they're starting from scratch, Fargo said he's been working on this for years.

I'm more optimistic about a team of very talented and experienced people driven by both passion and the excitement of creative freedom awarded by fan funding.

 

[Semper]

Personally preferring AoD/Deadstate by comparison. Textures are too soft and blurred.

they're just placeholders and/or fugly ones right from the asset shop. finalizing textures is one of the last things a project goes through... and by far the easiest one. you won't see any of these textures in the final product. and even if they reappear the modding community will replace them asap. inxile should concentrate all their effort on gameplay.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Those ARPGs were the only thing that he could get publishers to back. I don't think it's fair to judge him on those two games.

I'm not asking why he made action RPGs instead of Wasteland 2 and 3. I'm pointing out that each took about 2 years, which is why I'm having a hard time believing that he can make a much more complex RPG in 1.5 years. It's also worth pointing out that these games were mediocre at best, which raises all kinds of questions, but hey, maybe his heart wasn't in it.

It's not like they're starting from scratch, Fargo said he's been working on this for years.

Um, yeah, it's like they are starting from scratch. Thinking about it for years while driving doesn't count.

I'm more optimistic about a team of very talented and experienced people driven by both passion and the excitement of creative freedom awarded by fan funding.

Let's hope you're right then.