Game News First work in progress screenshot of Wasteland 2 revealed

[Excommunicator]

Well it seems Wasteland 2 might yet deliver as much drama to the Codex as Mass Effect or Diablo 3. Impressive

As to the screenshot: it is oversaturated as has been said many times already, but I'm actually surprised at how good it is. I was expecting something that looked a lot cheaper. The scene in the screenshot is obviously arranged to show off their art assets so I'm not even going to bother commenting on that, and neither should any of you.

I suppose my main concern is whether or not the visuals will end up as distinctly their own. They really need to aim for memorability and all the distinctive qualities they can achieve in order to push the game's exposure and recognition in the face of its niche appeal. This game has its funding now secured so they are mostly safe in that regard but with some minor oversights down the track there is a very real risk that this very positive position could disappear almost instantly and destroy their opportunities for sequels and similar future games. They can't rely on Kickstarter to come through again in the same way, so hopefully they are thinking about giving the game all the classical appeal they can so that it has that long-term appeal and the trickle-type selling potential that comes with it. There is no safety net yet, and that is going to come from post-release sales. Hipster-indie inspired visuals will not have long term appeal.

 

[bonescraper]

So what's the fucking point of putting this shot if it doesn't show anything particular about game?

Wat?

And they had technical limitations back then, when making W1. They were limited to 16 colours and analog->digital conversion was very difficult, so cartoonish was the only valid choice. Now it isn't, even in such a low budget game. Proof:

It is, by all means, a low budget game. And Underrail is a no budget game. It's just a one man project, done in free time. Don't fucking tell me there is no difference...

They're doing it for consistency's sake and because of technical limitations. What did you fucking expect? A Crysis 2 sequel? We're talking here about a 3 mil budget game.

Some mockups he did inspired by the Wasteland 2 announcement:

Yeah, these are beautiful. And that Stasis guy is a genius.

But i honestly don't want W2 to look like that. This kind of hand crafted graphics brings many restrictions, which i would rather not have in a tactical RPG. It would most certainly extend the development time significantly and lower the scope of the game. Just remember how short ToEE is, and how insignificant and small some of its maps are (the Deklo grove for example...).

Freedom of movement, environment interaction, ease of tactical overview, these things are way more important in a tactical RPG than pretty artsy graphics and detailed backdrops. That's why (like it or not) 3D is the way to go. It's easier, cheaper and less time consuming to make a decent looking 3D game than a gorgeous and functional 2D masterpiece. Because seriously, you wouldn't expect W2 to look like Underrail...

Oh, and obviously, a 3D game is easier to mod.

 

[Gregz]

Of course, the desert-oriented wasteland devoid of life was still there. But a newer and more compelling version which highlighted nature's reclamation of vacated places took hold of our attention. This new conception gives us the opportunity to generate a variety of environment types while staying true to the narrative. It also allows the location and geology to dictate the flora and fauna, as well as the manner and state of decay. From the dry deserts and icy mountaintops of Arizona to the coastal conditions of LA and larger southern California region, each region generates its own flavor. You saw a bit of this in our early concept pieces we had commissioned. Because the early part of the game, where our development is currently focused, takes place in Arizona, this first screen shot depicts (surprise) a desert scene.​

This is a good design principle, but that screen-shot has too much gamma/bloom/neon going on for me.

Things should look more dilapidated and drab imo, but Wasteland was always kinda wacky. Dunno...hard to say based on only one screen-shot. I wish they showed some of the other environments he's describing for comparison.

 

[flushfire]

psh. don't see wha the fuss is about. screenshot is nowhere near the cartoony shit that is dredmor or frayed knights. or even amalur/wow. except for the green water(?) just oversaturation is the problem. i dont see anything that's comically out of proportion. no huge shoulder pads or over the top weapons. no shacks with tiny bases and huge roofs. if anything the style looks neutral/generic to me.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

Bonescraper is right. I don't like the screenshot, but detailed 2D graphic assets are expensive and take a lot of time and effort to make. If this low-detail 3D art style is a tradeoff for putting more time into world-building and game mechanics I'm absolutely fine with it.

 

[Ion Prothon II]

Bonescraper is right. I don't like the screenshot, but detailed 2D graphic assets are expensive and take a lot of time and effort to make. If this low-detail 3D art style is a tradeoff for putting more time into world-building and game mechanics I'm absolutely fine with it.

Except the 'detailed 2d graphics assets' are just pre- rendered 3D objects, and the production process is exactly the same as with true 3D. Unless you mean 2D games with graphic assets either hand- drawn or photographed, which died out like one and half decade ago.

 

[Tolknaz]

Bonescraper is right. I don't like the screenshot, but detailed 2D graphic assets are expensive and take a lot of time and effort to make. If this low-detail 3D art style is a tradeoff for putting more time into world-building and game mechanics I'm absolutely fine with it.

Except the 'detailed 2d graphics assets' are just pre- rendered 3D objects, and the production process is exactly the same as with true 3D. Unless you mean 2D games with graphic assets either hand- drawn or photographed, which died out like one and half decade ago.

Indeed. Most of the art for all the famous 2D isometric games from the nineties was actually made from 3d renders. The backgrounds were later edited to make them prettier in some cases, but it all started out as 3D.

 

[Stelcio]

So what's the fucking point of putting this shot if it doesn't show anything particular about game?

Wat?

Anyway, what can you tell about the game's art style from that one early screenshot anyway? You haven't seen a ruined city environment yet.

If you cant tell anything about game's art style from "Progress Screenshot - Environment and Character Style Development" than what's the point of releasing it? Dat.

It is, by all means, a low budget game. And Underrail is a no budget game. It's just a one man project, done in free time. Don't fucking tell me there is no difference...

There is a difference, indeed. Wasteland 2 has a budget of 3M$, therefore it shouldn't be limited to cartoonish graphics, if a no budget game isn't.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Just for those complaining about the colourful look, we need to come to a common understanding here.

Wasteland was a comical, not-so-serious game, which had everything from mutant rabbits to shotgun-wielding padres. It was full of a cheesy, self-referential style.

It was not meant to be some grim, dark, or bleak style of the usual post-apocalyptic genre; more of Might and Magic rather than The Witcher, if we must make fantasy comparisons. At least here, we must agree before disagreeing.

When they make a slightly cartoonish look for Wasteland 2, they probably only did what was always intended.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

Ion Prothon and Tolknaz, that doesn't change anything concerning what I said. Those 3d renders were very detailed and obiously would have taken a lot more time and money to make than what you see on the W2 screenshot. Given inexiles time and budget restraints, it would be impossible to build a huge and interesting gameworld with the graphical quality of say the Infinity Engine games.

 

[G.O.D]

I don't complain about the graphics. They weren't the issue in many games I loved and won't be in Wasteland 2 as well. What I find disturbing is that whole "WOW, ÜBERCOOL SHIT, DONT YOU DARE CRITICIZE IT, BECAUSE IT'S PRE-PRE-PRE-ALPHA, THEY HAVE LOW BUDGET AND THEY PUT IT INTO MORE IMPORTANT SHIT THAN TEXTURES, YOU GRAPHIX-WHORE. ALSO CFA, YOU DUMB FUCK!" attitude. Praising it for the sake of praising even though it doesn't show anything worth it.

I absolutely agree.. i'm not that impressed either by the overal looks and the palette used.
Personally I prefer the looks of the older games (Tactics, for example) more.
Yet, I won't judge it this early in development, i still have faith that it will all come together well.

There is more than enough time for adaptations, if they, and the community (W2 forums) feel it is needed, so i'll sit back and await the next couple of updates.
In the end, gameplay is what matters most.

The attitude of some Codexers is disappointing to say the least IMO.
What happened to constructive criticism?
Besides, as far as i know, every person is allowed to decide if one likes what he sees or not.
There is no direct connection to graphic whoring, it's fucking rediculous.

In the end we all wan't it to turn out to be a good game, and now, in an early stage it is the time to discus it, and all the hurr durr dumbfuck-moron-graphicwhore bullshit is not contributing anything, right?
All it tells is a lack of social skills.

/rant

 

[Tigranes]

It's a pretty crappy looking screenshot, but re. camera or general direction or general technical quality, it tells us nothing we don't know, and there's a long way to go yet.

*yawn* not sure it was a good idea to release a screenie this early, to be honest.

 

[OSK]

I'm ok with this.

 

[Stelcio]

When they make a slightly cartoonish look for Wasteland 2, they probably only did what was always intended.

If we assume that, why the concept arts were more "mature-looking"? Were they just a bait for younger Fallout fanbase? Or inXile just don't have (or didn't back then) consistent artistic concept for the game?

 

[Infinitron]

When they make a slightly cartoonish look for Wasteland 2, they probably only did what was always intended.

If we assume that, why the concept arts were more "mature-looking"? Were they just a bait for younger Fallout fanbase? Or inXile just don't have (or didn't back then) consistent artistic concept for the game?

This screenshot isn't "art". It's inXile fucking around with their new engine to give Kickstarter backers something to talk about.

And it's starting to bore the fuck out of me.

 

[Stelcio]

This screenshot isn't "art". It's inXile fucking around with their new engine to give Kickstarter backers something to talk about.

No, its "environment and character style development". Style means art.

 

[mindx2]

As I said before... for a 1st look it looks good enough for me IF, and that's a big IF, the gameplay lives up to the hype. If that is the level of graphical detail and all their other monies is spent on quest design, dialogue, C&C, strategic encounters, etc. I'll be very pleased.

As for all of those who did criticize the look of the screenshot, good for you. Keep up the criticism/ debate but don't let that become so loud that InXile neglects the other more important aspects of the game just to make it look "better." Some are stating that calling out your criticism is "UnCodexian" and more Biowarian, but I disagree. People are just arguing/ debating that those graphics are fine as long as the rest of the game excels and some of your own criticisms aren't all that important to a $3 million dollar game. Their not necessarily defending InXile, just having a back and forth, you know, debate. You say what's wrong with the look of the game, they state why your expectations are to high based on the budget/ time constraints, you counter how there wrong, and on it goes. Yet, many here are calling others out as "rabid fanbois" for disagreeing with you. The exact same response you are criticizing others for doing.

If nothing else, the response to this one screenshot shows how much many of us here are really hoping this game is a return to our classic cRPGs of the past... and that is a good thing !

 

[General Maxson]

As far as I'm concerned, this time constraint of Oct 2013 is shit. It's what forced them to use Unity, and its assets and force everything to be completed as quickly as possible. I would be happier if I had to wait to 2015 if it would improve the game, and make them use their own creative freedom in choosing engine, not because Unity engine is good to create something quickly.

But I won't judge it to doom yet, before game is finished. There is still plenty of time and iterations they will make and show us. We will see. I must say that I don't like this style of graphics, tought after gorgeous concept art that scorpitron will look much more impressive and detailed, as will the rest of the game. Too little details and sharpness, IMHO. But as most of you say, it's still alpha. Now, gameplay IS king, as Fargo himself said, but I just can't say that this looks good.

And I can't imagine professional team with 3x the money they asked for can't make something better, when we have Stasis guy, and even Styg (alone guys with no money). And W2 isn't a publisher game, or just a "game", it's a game Fargo always wanted to make etc. So they should be at least passionate as Styg and Stasis guys... And I ask you what would W2 look like if it got 1 mil $ as they first asked?

And I don't get that 3 mil $ is shit money, and if they make graphics better Fallout Tactics for example, the game will be much more limited in scope... I don't see Styg limiting his game with nice graphics (for a literally no budget game), or Stasis guy limiting his, although it IS an adventure. But wtf do I know?

 

[Dexter]

Some mockups he did inspired by the Wasteland 2 announcement:

Sweet:

 

[Infinitron]

And I can't imagine professional team with 3x the money they asked for can't make something better, when we have Stasis guy, and even Styg (alone guys with no money). And W2 isn't a publisher game, or just a "game", it's a game Fargo always wanted to make etc. So they should be at least passionate as Styg and Stasis guys... And I ask you what would W2 look like if it got 1 mil $ as they first asked?

And I don't get that 3 mil $ is shit money, and if they make graphics better Fallout Tactics for example, the game will be much more limited in scope... I don't see Styg limiting his game with nice graphics (for a literally no budget game), or Stasis guy limiting his, although it IS an adventure. But wtf do I know?

Difference between "no budget" and "low budget" = the "no budget" guys make the game in their spare time. They have jobs. Which means guaranteed cash flow, but also much longer development time.

As far as I'm concerned, this time constraint of Oct 2013 is shit.

But that's what our Kickstarter money can buy.

 

[Ion Prothon II]

Just for those complaining about the colourful look, we need to come to a common understanding here.

Wasteland was a comical, not-so-serious game, which had everything from mutant rabbits to shotgun-wielding padres. It was full of a cheesy, self-referential style.

It was not meant to be some grim, dark, or bleak style of the usual post-apocalyptic genre; more of Might and Magic rather than The Witcher, if we must make fantasy comparisons. At least here, we must agree before disagreeing.

When they make a slightly cartoonish look for Wasteland 2, they probably only did what was always intended.

It's not about colors, but about the look of models. It's not an issue with 'stylized graphics', but that the things are cartoonish in a bad way. Team Fortress. If they want to proceed, well... the gaem gonna look shite ololol.

I have doubts as for the art style being planned.
Let's remind something.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2/posts/228226

Besides generous support available from Unity staff, the Unity Asset Store is a treasure trove of assets (3D models and code) provided by the large and growing community of Unity users. A recent Unity newsletter announced that the Asset Store customer base has topped 100,000, and the catalog has reached over 3,000 packages! We’ve been able to find all kinds of useful 3D assets and code in the Asset Store ranging in price from cheap to free!

So, maybe they don't have any art style. Maybe they just use all the stuff they found in Unity assets because its uhhh so free and cheap. And now they don't have any choice other than adjusting their 'art' to look not different than the repo stuff (which means, not better).
Somehow I don;t believe the quality of things from an asset store of lame engine.

 

[Captain Shrek]

As far as I'm concerned, this time constraint of Oct 2013 is shit. It's what forced them to use Unity, and its assets and force everything to be completed as quickly as possible. I would be happier if I had to wait to 2015 if it would improve the game, and make them use their own creative freedom in choosing engine, not because Unity engine is good to create something quickly.

But I won't judge it to doom yet, before game is finished. There is still plenty of time and iterations they will make and show us. We will see. I must say that I don't like this style of graphics, tought after gorgeous concept art that scorpitron will look much more impressive and detailed, as will the rest of the game. Too little details and sharpness, IMHO. But as most of you say, it's still alpha. Now, gameplay IS king, as Fargo himself said, but I just can't say that this looks good.

And I can't imagine professional team with 3x the money they asked for can't make something better, when we have Stasis guy, and even Styg (alone guys with no money). And W2 isn't a publisher game, or just a "game", it's a game Fargo always wanted to make etc. So they should be at least passionate as Styg and Stasis guys... And I ask you what would W2 look like if it got 1 mil $ as they first asked?

And I don't get that 3 mil $ is shit money, and if they make graphics better Fallout Tactics for example, the game will be much more limited in scope... I don't see Styg limiting his game with nice graphics (for a literally no budget game), or Stasis guy limiting his, although it IS an adventure. But wtf do I know?

 

[Infinitron]

Ion Prothon II

Maybe, maybe, maybe.

Newsflash: All games look as shitty as this 90 days after development has started. You're seeing shit that nobody gets to see, that nobody is supposed to see.

 

[Infinitron]

For god's sake, this is not "alpha". This is pre-pre-alpha. Maybe add a few more pres.

The Ultima Forever build I had access to was an alpha. It was a playable game. This screenshot is one level above a simple mockup, there is nothing playable here.

 

[General Maxson]

And I can't imagine professional team with 3x the money they asked for can't make something better, when we have Stasis guy, and even Styg (alone guys with no money). And W2 isn't a publisher game, or just a "game", it's a game Fargo always wanted to make etc. So they should be at least passionate as Styg and Stasis guys... And I ask you what would W2 look like if it got 1 mil $ as they first asked?

And I don't get that 3 mil $ is shit money, and if they make graphics better Fallout Tactics for example, the game will be much more limited in scope... I don't see Styg limiting his game with nice graphics (for a literally no budget game), or Stasis guy limiting his, although it IS an adventure. But wtf do I know?

Difference between "no budget" and "low budget" = the "no budget" guys make the game in their spare time. They have jobs. Which means guaranteed cash flow, but also much longer development time.

As far as I'm concerned, this time constraint of Oct 2013 is shit.

But that's what our Kickstarter money can buy.

I think Styg said that he is unemployed. Also, Grim Dawn guy worked in his free time and with money he had left on his game, and to me it looks better with a Titan Quest engine. How many employees does inxile have? Is 3 million $ not enough to feed them and their families for a few years if they want to make this for their sake and old school fans sake? America must be extremely expensive then.

And yes, generic look of this unity engine does not suit it at all, I hope Fargo knows what he's doing, and this really will change as it's pre alpha. Yeah, Eisenwald also looked much better than this. I don't know was it alpha though. I just hope this is what it is because of extremely early and honest approach to fans, they just show what they have etc.