Games for people with depression

[Heroic Liberator]

And I want to tell you that people who have no outside-of-capitalist-realism interests in life AND are not designed to be top-dogs in this system ARE inevitably vulnerable to the despair. However you want to call it. How can you not, when the watch of your boss costs your 10-year salary but to reduce losses he will not sell his watch but fire you.

Proletarier aller Länder, vereinigt Euch!

We agree on all of the above, yet what I am getting at is that many of these people only feign despair (ergo the woe-is-me attitude).

And comrade, do not confuse the contemporary lumpen with the working class.

 

[Jasede]

Thought I think it's also an age think, older generation are usually more of the, you have to toughen it out, keep it together, don't talk about it or even show it, whereas younger people are more open about it these days, talking and accepting it

That much is correct. My to willingness to believe people who claim they cannot be expected to work and do unpleasant things is getting lower every year.

Not really lot of these people ("who are faking depression") in the countries such as Russia where you don't have unemployment money from government (well, technically you do have, but it is like $15/month).

As previously mentioned, faking depression isn't solely about gibs. It's also about justifying one's lack of ambition, work ethic and what have you. Much easier to cry about depression than to admit to yourself and others that you are a lazy piece of shit.

One of the most shit things about severe clinical depression is how it looks like laziness on the outside. How do you tell someone that, yes, you really don't have the energy to get groceries, or bring in the mail, or make that phone call today? It's incomprehensible to anyone who hasn't been truly depressed that such a state is possible.

"just do it, even though you don't feel like it!"
With what energy? With what motivation? The house could be on fire and you'd barely muster the energy to call 911.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Jasede, you are once more missing my point. I do not deny the existence of clinical depression, only its spread among all of those that claim to be suffering of it.

 

[Jasede]

Oh, fair enough then. And I would be the first to say, it's really hard to distinguish on the outside which is which. People who are self-diagnosed can go straight into the trash. And people trying to get out of work by pretending to be depressed should be sent to Siberia, they'd be cured pretty fast.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

My exact sentiments.

 

[Theodora]

"just do it, even though you don't feel like it!"
With what energy? With what motivation? The house could be on fire and you'd barely muster the energy to call 911.

I do not deny the existence of clinical depression, only its spread among all of those that claim to be suffering of it.

The invisibility really is the problem. The lay observer has no tools to distinguish mental illness from conceited displays. Like many issues to do with individual justice, we can only accept the frauds and fakes where excluding them would inevitably also catch the genuine article.

Those most seriously affected are those who are least able to stand up for themselves, protest a decision, or seek an advocate on their behalf.

It's exactly as Jasede says... your very life could be threatened and all that occupies your mind is a swirling, dark emptiness that makes basic thought confused at best or completely obstructed at (not even really) the worst.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Like many issues to do with individual justice, we can only accept the frauds and fakes where excluding them would inevitably also catch the genuine article.

Well, you know the story of the boy that cried 'wolf'.

If people suspect that they are depressed, they should go and get themselves diagnosed by a professional instead of self-diagnosing.

 

[Theodora]

If people suspect that they are depressed, they should go and get themselves diagnosed by a professional instead of self-diagnosing.

I would agree more if healthcare more generally was free/affordable, or not often shit when it was (like I said above re: avoiding diagnosing me with anything helpful bc it would harm their stats). Northern European, and especially British, doctors I've found to be increeedibly patronising,

The self-Dx question seems complex and I don't have experiences to help understand it, but I tried the whole Finding Inner Strength thing and all it did was delay important discoveries by over half a decade until crisis caused evaluation by a competent professional. Thankfully(?) some other conditions like PTSD are visibly obvious to others and harder to ignore.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Thought I think it's also an age think, older generation are usually more of the, you have to toughen it out, keep it together, don't talk about it or even show it, whereas younger people are more open about it these days, talking and accepting it

That much is correct. My to willingness to believe people who claim they cannot be expected to work and do unpleasant things is getting lower every year.

Not really lot of these people ("who are faking depression") in the countries such as Russia where you don't have unemployment money from government (well, technically you do have, but it is like $15/month).

As previously mentioned, faking depression isn't solely about gibs. It's also about justifying one's lack of ambition, work ethic and what have you. Much easier to cry about depression than to admit to yourself and others that you are a lazy piece of shit.

One of the most shit things about severe clinical depression is how it looks like laziness on the outside. How do you tell someone that, yes, you really don't have the energy to get groceries, or bring in the mail, or make that phone call today? It's incomprehensible to anyone who hasn't been truly depressed that such a state is possible.

"just do it, even though you don't feel like it!"
With what energy? With what motivation? The house could be on fire and you'd barely muster the energy to call 911.

I think the point you are missing is that absolutely everyone has depression. The degrees vary greatly, depending on different brain function, but everyone knows the feeling that nothing motivates you and you just want to hide somewhere and wait till the next day.

Also life requires us to be tough on ourselves. No one wants to be woken up by an alarm clock very early in the morning, get into a train or car in winter and then spend the time until early evening doing something that other people need. We might enjoy it at periods but I guarantee you no one loves those things all of the time.

On the other hand there are people who have seriously fucked up brain chemistry and practically cannot spend time at a full time job. They would maybe be able to work for 1 hour or 2 but then the job expects them to stay another 7 or 8, and that's pure hell if not impossible.

The thing that bothers me is the attitude. I'm sick and tired of people, especially young, healthy people going on and on about how incapacitated they are by some trauma. I can accept if someone suffers from depression and needs special limits on how much he has to performs, but first I want to see what you do, not what you can't do. If you tell your therapist it would be absolutely impossible to go out of the house, he will say that absolutely everyone can go out for 5 minutes. Then you go out and normally 5 minutes turn into 1 hour and afterwards you feel better. If you come back after 5 minutes, I would considere it still a minor success and leave you alone. But don't expect me to believe your level is 0, except if you are an 70 year old ex heroine addict.

Not the depression is the problem, nor people not accepting that depression is a thing but the constant whining that it is completely invincible. It just makes you sound like a weak quitter.

 

[Burning Bridges]

If people suspect that they are depressed, they should go and get themselves diagnosed by a professional instead of self-diagnosing.

I would agree more if healthcare more generally was free/affordable, or not often shit when it was (like I said above re: avoiding diagnosing me with anything helpful bc it would harm their stats). Northern European, and especially British, doctors I've found to be increeedibly patronising,

The self-Dx question seems complex and I don't have experiences to help understand it, but I tried the whole Finding Inner Strength thing and all it did was delay important discoveries by over half a decade until crisis caused evaluation by a competent professional. Thankfully(?) some other conditions like PTSD are visibly obvious to others and harder to ignore.

One of my Dx means the emotional control part of my brain is about 15% smaller than it's meant to be; and in turn, the same Dx gives you a 5-10% chance of dying by suicide.

It would interest me - if this is not too personal information - how such a diagnosis is quantitatively established. Is this a CT scan or measurement or just some thing the neurologist knows from his experience?

Also just out of curiosity. You wrote that you needed to convince the Australian doctors you have this neurological impairment to be given a permanent visa. Does Australia hand out visas for people with handicaps, is there a term for it?

I thought the opposite was the case https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentar...t/Completed_Inquiries/mig/disability/chapter6

Under these arrangements skilled applicants who have all the requisite qualifications (and points) for a visa, and may even have a job offer in Australia, can be rejected on the Health Requirement if they or a member of their family have a disability.

As I wrote, if you don't want to talk about this that's perfectly understandable, but it would interest me, because I have people in my family who had problems with long term work visas in Australia.

 

[Theodora]

Also just out of curiosity. You wrote that you needed to convince the Australian doctors you have this neurological impairment to be given a permanent visa. Does Australia hand out visas for people with handicaps, is there a term for it?

It's not about that, it's about proving family violence. It's meant to help stop abusive partners fro threatening you with immigration stuff, but in my ignorance I was successfully manipulated with the dual threat of homelessness and losing the place that had become home.

But like everything else, it's become a mess from modern political pressures -- if I wasn't helped out in hiring a lawyer, they would have repeatedly ignored my emails and pretended I wasn't submitting what they asked and just kept pushing things onto the next step towards deportation. It's really messed up.

Fwiw,

On the other hand there are people who have seriously fucked up brain chemistry and practically cannot spend time at a full time job. They would maybe be able to work for 1 hour or 2 but then the job expects them to stay another 7 or 8, and that's pure hell if not impossible.

I appreciate that you get this? Although I think the perception that 'everyone has depression (just of differing severity)' has some superficial truth because of capitalism's shared bs, I don't think it's the same to know you're useless for the rest of a day, vs. "I don't know if I'll ever be my old self again."

 

[Burning Bridges]

As previously mentioned, faking depression isn't solely about gibs. It's also about justifying one's lack of ambition, work ethic and what have you. Much easier to cry about depression than to admit to yourself and others that you are a lazy piece of shit.

Specifically, I think you can even fake it to yourself. There is a certain point where people can actually screw over themselves and become convinced that they are completely incapacitated, that the rest of humanity has an unfair advantage. Depression is one, but not the only source of such quitting. Most people do that for example with mathematics (now many times you hear people claim they can't even do basic math because they are "too dumb", when in fact they are just too lazy since when it came up in 5th grade and have lived in a perfect state of denial since then).

I also have to think of the first time we did a 5,000m run in school when I saw half the people standing and gasping after 400m. They could have walked on, which would have gotten them at least half as fast closer to the target, but they preferred to stand in groups and claim they can't do no more.

 

[Burning Bridges]

I appreciate that you get this? Although I think the perception that 'everyone has depression (just of differing severity)' has some superficial truth because of capitalism's shared bs, I don't think it's the same to know you're useless for the rest of a day, vs. "I don't know if I'll ever be my old self again."

I have been through shit times in my life too, but I prefer to speak of when/how I went and did something. Maybe also related to a philosophy I have, that often 10% of something is almost as good as 100%. That means if you can go out and work 2 hours a day it will still give you almost the same satisfaction as going for 10, but if you do 0 you fell even more depressed than if you did 2.

This isn't a number specific to me, I was pulling a conservative stat for BPD from the back of my head. In the process of finding studies to show you why I said that, I found out that the case was far worse in that crossover. Which explains why I was x10 more functional when I only had BPD, despite in a sense, only getting 'twice as sick'. Does that make sense?

Not really, but then those things are really not my business.

 

[Theodora]

I also have to think of the first time we did a 5,000m run in school when I saw half the people standing and gasping after 400m. They could have walked on, which would have gotten them at least half as fast closer to the target, but they preferred to stand in groups and claim they can't do no more.

It would be nice if the stakes were the same as pushing fat kids to run further than they think they can. But the reality is the mental health equivalent has killed people. There's a great sense of shame that comes with not knowing how to heal, feeling like you're wasting people's time, feeling lazy yet not knowing what will stop you from ending up catatonic or worse from overreaching.

Again I just don't think it's wise for lay minds to play expert here. It doesn't mean you need a fancy piece of paper, but you do need to know people. Otherwise you probably will end up hurting the person you're trying to help, or worse have to live with wondering how much you contributed to someone else's suicide.

It's a mess.

 

[Burning Bridges]

But that goes both ways. As a clinically depressed person you can also not know what superhuman effort other people make who are not talking about depression.

This is, and will, always remain a mystery.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

This is, and will, always remain a mystery.

That's the beauty of the illusion of free will.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

I don't believe you can fake a real depression.

I'm not sure either that you can limit the problem to the medical condition.

There is a spiritual dimension to the problem, but as Lyric Suite's case showed it is probably too hard topic for Codex.

::trollface::

 

[Heroic Liberator]

I'm not sure either that you can limit the problem to the medical condition.

There is a spiritual dimension to the problem

 

[Verylittlefishes]

As previously mentioned, faking depression isn't solely about gibs. It's also about justifying one's lack of ambition, work ethic and what have you. Much easier to cry about depression than to admit to yourself and others that you are a lazy piece of shit.

Specifically, I think you can even fake it to yourself. There is a certain point where people can actually screw over themselves and become convinced that they are completely incapacitated, that the rest of humanity has an unfair advantage. Depression is one, but not the only source of such quitting. Most people do that for example with mathematics (now many times you hear people claim they can't even do basic math because they are "too dumb", when in fact they are just too lazy since when it came up in 5th grade and have lived in a perfect state of denial since then).

I also have to think of the first time we did a 5,000m run in school when I saw half the people standing and gasping after 400m. They could have walked on, which would have gotten them at least half as fast closer to the target, but they preferred to stand in groups and claim they can't do no more.

I believe you're referring to the learned helplessness.

 

[Burning Bridges]

There is a spiritual dimension to the problem, but as Lyric Suite's case showed it is probably too hard topic for Codex.

Lyric Suite just desperately needs to get laid, that's all he is lacking.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

There is a spiritual dimension to the problem, but as Lyric Suite's case showed it is probably too hard topic for Codex.

Lyric Suite just desperately needs to get laid, that's all he is lacking.

Ad hominem but yes, probably. Still...

 

[Burning Bridges]

still what?

 

[Verylittlefishes]

still what?

Still the question remains. Of the nature of the depression I mean.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

still what?

Still the question remains. Of the nature of the depression I mean.

Biological determinism.

 

[Burning Bridges]

still what?

Still the question remains. Of the nature of the depression I mean.

In Lyric Suite's case? There is no question at all! He hates people who are successful especially young men who go into nightclubs and have sex, young attractive women of course and his spirituality is only the last refuge of a bitter, old man. Of course this makes you depressed.

I think any spirituality based on hate is worthless.