Games without which everything would be different

[ValeVelKal]

Marathon is the first remembered FPS, and yes you found out the totally forgotten Hovertank 3D (which I had never heard about). Maybe one could accept Battletank (1980) as the ancestor to Hovertank 3D, so a lineage of the FPS up to 1980 ?

Marathon, which came out after Wolfenstein 3D, Doom, and even System Shock, is the first FPS. Well, if you say so...

I meant Catacombs.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Dark Souls.

How would you describe a hard game if it never existed?

Wizardry 4.

Oh, Wizardry 4 - true origin of Shin Megami Tensei.

Just FYI, Psychic City and The Black Onyx allowed you to recruit enemies as party members before Wizardry 4 came out. I don't know if any way or any information about its concept or development was available in Japan before they came out (1984).

 

[oddech_wymarlych_swiatow]

Just FYI, Psychic City and The Black Onyx allowed you to recruit enemies as party members before Wizardry 4 came out. I don't know if any way or any information about its concept or development was available in Japan before they came out (1984).

That's why I like this forum, of course I haven't heard about any of these games before, thanks!

But there is one thing that intigues me. In PSX Japanese remake of Wiz4, the hidden dungeon shares visual style with 'limbo' from Shin Megami Tensei 1 (the are beyond time that is being visited just after Thor nukes Tokyo), even music is similar. Looks like homage for Werdna.

 

[Raskens]

Metroid

For creating or at least popularising the platform-adventure genre (metroidvania is a dumb name for the genre).

 

[sser]

I think King's Quest is probably the single most important video game in terms of evolving the industry. A very good game + new ideas and concepts + very popular = completely changed how both gamers/devs looked at games.

 

[samuraigaiden]

Another World. It’s the first game to make use of polygonal character models in order to facilitate seamless transitions between gameplay and cutscenes using in-game assets, effectively inventing a technique that is at the core of 3D game development to this day.

 

[luj1]

Ye I never played Another World, yet Heart of Darkness reminds me of it

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Metroid

For creating or at least popularising the platform-adventure genre (metroidvania is a dumb name for the genre).

That's because 'Metroidvania' isn't a genre, it's a game design aspect, like 'open-world'. While it's mostly used with platformers, it can be used with other genres.

I think King's Quest is probably the single most important video game in terms of evolving the industry. A very good game + new ideas and concepts + very popular = completely changed how both gamers/devs looked at games.

King's Quest is:

# Fantastic to look at (for a 1984 game)
# Not a very good game (not even by 1984 standards)
# A great leap forward for the genre of "Adventure games" in 1984 (known nowadays as "Interactive Fiction")
# Very popular at the time
# Not really introducing anything new

It is an important step forward nevertheless as it made a turn-based genre real-time and more immersive as a result, but in No Way does it deserve a nod as "the single most important video game in terms of evolving the industry". There are plenty of other games deserving of that honor.

 

[sser]

Metroid

For creating or at least popularising the platform-adventure genre (metroidvania is a dumb name for the genre).

That's because 'Metroidvania' isn't a genre, it's a game design aspect, like 'open-world'. While it's mostly used with platformers, it can be used with other genres.

I think King's Quest is probably the single most important video game in terms of evolving the industry. A very good game + new ideas and concepts + very popular = completely changed how both gamers/devs looked at games.

# Fantastic to look at (for a 1984 game)
# Not a very good game (not even by 1984 standards)
# A great leap forward for the genre of "Adventure games" in 1984 (known nowadays as "Interactive Fiction")
# Very popular at the time
# Not really introducing anything new

It is an important step forward nevertheless as it made a turn-based genre real-time and more immersive as a result, but in No Way does it deserve a nod as "the single most important video game in terms of evolving the industry". There are plenty of other games deserving of that honor.

You're looking at the question differently like you're reviewing the product itself. KQ revolutionized the entire genre and hugely popularized a lot of elements we now find in tons of other genres that were not typical for the 1980s -- and it also sold a gajillion copies, basically imprinting a new mode of thought on the industry as a whole.

Same way if you look at GTAIII back in 2001 or whenever. It's not introducing anything new, but it's refining it to a new level not seen before and being immensely popular. It is those two things combined which make those games extremely influential, and if you remove them from the industry docket then I guarantee the entire industry looks completely different. This is why I looked at it from the perspective of both gamer and developer, because these are games that were big changes for both. KQ and GTAIII both have been obviously influential on the industry, KQ to me is just the most influential in regards to what the modern gaming scene is today.

 

[samuraigaiden]

Ye I never played Another World, yet Heart of Darkness reminds me of it

I suppose you already know they were made by the same dude.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

You're looking at the question differently like you're reviewing the product itself. KQ revolutionized the entire genre and hugely popularized a lot of elements we now find in tons of other genres that were not typical for the 1980s -- and it also sold a gajillion copies, basically imprinting a new mode of thought on the industry as a whole.

Same way if you look at GTAIII back in 2001 or whenever. It's not introducing anything new, but it's refining it to a new level not seen before and being immensely popular. It is those two things combined which make those games extremely influential, and if you remove them from the industry docket then I guarantee the entire industry looks completely different. This is why I looked at it from the perspective of both gamer and developer, because these are games that were big changes for both. KQ and GTAIII both have been obviously influential on the industry, KQ to me is just the most influential in regards to what the modern gaming scene is today.

False comparison. GTA3 brought an already-successful franchise into the third dimension, a technological breakthrough first and foremost which proved to be a pivotal move overall for both the franchise and console gaming as well. GTA3 was an immediate turning point for console games going forward from that point in time, and is considered a true turning point for (console) gaming overall, years later.

By comparison, King's Quest 1's "impact" took years to manifest outside of Sierra On-Line. Name me an "Adventure game" of that era that dared to mimic/copy King's Quest and wasn't released by Sierra. With luck you'll have to go two years ahead, maybe even three. The only thing that's certain for King's Quest 1 is that it raised the bar for Adventure Games in general, and helped lay the groundwork for Sierra On-Line to become a "home computer-powerhouse" publisher. Notable achievements, yes, but not worthy of the credit you wish to bestow upon it.

 

[Humanophage]

Halo - popularised first person shooters in a big way. HL of course game first and is better but Halo was also very important. I even think the first 30% of the original game is good - after that it's clear that they're just regurgitating content and using zombies to pad it out. Bungie should have hired had more level designers. Not revolutionary at all but did a lot of important things together for the first time - first person on console with move+look similar to how PCs do it with WASD+mouse; vehicles; "sandbox" areas you can approach how you like (from memory, the "Attack on the Control Room" level is a series of these.

The first Call of Duty. At the time, I hadn't seen a first person shooter that had used so much scripting. The scripting gives it a really cool appearance but ultimately I think it's turned out to be pretty shallow. Even in the first game sometimes when you wander too far off piste you get magically blown up by artillery or similar. This is how the majority single player shooters are now and it fucking sucks.

It's depressing how these turned out to be so popular. At the time they were released and I heard a bit about them in the press, Halo sounded like a boring super-limited FPS for consoles along the lines of Zero Tolerance, while Call of Duty seemed like a generic and forgettable FPS with about as much appeal as Cabela's Big Game Hunter. I forgot about them for years until I learned later that they turned out to be amazingly popular among Americans and contributed to dumbing down the gaming industry that gave us Civilization, Master of Magic, Heroes of Might and Magic, Unreal Tournament, Deus Ex, Fallout, and other truly deserving classics.

 

[luj1]

How Halo got popular = consoles. As a shooter its mediocre.

 

[sser]

By comparison, King's Quest 1's "impact" took years to manifest outside of Sierra On-Line. Name me an "Adventure game" of that era that dared to mimic/copy King's Quest and wasn't released by Sierra. With luck you'll have to go two years ahead, maybe even three. The only thing that's certain for King's Quest 1 is that it raised the bar for Adventure Games in general, and helped lay the groundwork for Sierra On-Line to become a "home computer-powerhouse" publisher. Notable achievements, yes, but not worthy of the credit you wish to bestow upon it.

Reinventing the adventure genre isn't low impact. I know maybe in the year 2020 it feels that way with the genre being dead and all, but back in the 70s, 80s, and 90s the adventure genre used to be like the jazz of all gaming. You think open-world gaming changed with GTAIII? Try the adventure genre endlessly riffing on the KQ formula with literally one notable exception in Myst. King's Quest came out around 1983 with various permutations and sequels through the years and its formula is still the foundation for adventure games decades later. Jane Jensen, Lucas Arts/Films, even TellTale etc. all operate off the KQ field manual. I'm also of the opinion that genres inform and iterate each other, and that the adventure genre, while basically dead, greatly informed almost all other genres in some manner or another. We don't see adventure games much lately because the technology has moved far enough ahead that you can often seamlessly incorporate its elements straight into other genres. But if you look at adventure gaming as a genre, you have to look at KQ as its genuine launchpad for mainstream success and setting the path. There's simply no denying it.

 

[Urthor]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacewar! 1962 and a shitload better than Pong

 

[FreshCorpse]

How Halo got popular = consoles. As a shooter its mediocre.

Is it though? I still think there is some good stuff in there. Halo came out in 2001. If you look at the first half of Halo there is decent AI, reasonable sandbox style set pieces (particularly on the "Halo" level), vehicles that work well (if a bit floaty) and the at the time somewhat interesting mechanic where you could only carry two guns.

Sure, everything is evolutionary rather than revolutionary and literally every aspect of Halo has now been done to death (I think every FPS had health regen for a while). All the same, I think it's fair to say that it's not shit or completely derivative. I also think it's a bit shaky to say it's only popular as a console shooter, the online component of the PC port was popular for years, esp in eastern Europe.

Also I don't even think the first CoD game even had a console release? The rot definitely began on PC there - and then spread to console. I played a lot of the multiplayer for it - it was like a better Day of Defeat. In fact, I think I'm going to give the original Day of Defeat a go right now...

 

[vota DC]

Birthright: Gorgon's Alliance

It Is a great example of great ideas that nobody else dared after because lazyness/cowardice.
You have the deep strategic map with tons of features, real (it appears real to be true, It is) time battles instead of turn based and an adventure mode.

Other examples I can think Is Dark Reign that did artillery properly but RTS want cannons with supersight or die by the sword with the option of moving the sword with mouse.

 

[luj1]

Impossible Creatures had a cool concept too

 

[samuraigaiden]

Virtua Fighter 2. It was the first game to ever use motion-capture technology.

 

[luj1]

Virtua Fighter 2. It was the first game to ever use motion-capture technology.

Wasnt Mortal Kombat the first?

MK released in 1992 and VF2 in 1993



Btw they should bring back this

 

[tritosine2k]

(...)

Quake - if John Carmack hadn't licenced the Q2 engine to Gabe Newell we wouldn't have Half Life, Counter Strike, Call of Duty, etc. (link) and around a 100+ Source games (link)


Diablo II - huge influence on system design to this day, don't even know where to start. The itemization, the enemies, the red and blue mana "blobs"

(...)

Borderlands - cursed, good start yet huge decline procured by Pitchford, had a single good DLC ( Knoxx) and nothing else, cemented character-centric ARPG on the expense of id's action formula ( & effort put into enviro) in RAGE, led to cancelled DOOM4 then id's sell off, gearbox themselves watering ARPG down into ESG compliant gamepad stuff & ultimately selling the company. Next up: CDPR.

 

[luj1]

Borderlands exists because of Diablo

and cel shading was taken from XIII

 

[gerey]

led to cancelled DOOM4

Good - because the snippets of art and gameplay they had shown looked like absolute ass. Game was basically Call of Duty with demons, featuring the same godawful palette of washed out greys and browns.

Say what you want about NuDoom, but at least it finally broke the mechanical stranglehold Halo and Call of Duty had on the FPS genre. It showed you could actually make an FPS that encourages the player to be aggressive and constantly on the move, instead of hiding behind cover waiting for the ketchup to slide off the screen.

and cel shading was taken from XIII

The art direction was stolen wholesale, without credit ever being given, from a short video made by an artist.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Populous
The Settlers
Black&White
Tetris
Prince of Persia
Max Payne
Homeworld (eh maybe not that much genre defining or changing but still was one of a kind for a long time)

 

[luj1]

Say what you want about NuDoom, but at least it finally broke the mechanical stranglehold Halo and Call of Duty had on the FPS genre.

I have to agree with this

and let me add 2016 was the best NuDoom