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Good Doom/Heretic/Hexen WADs

toughasnails

Learned
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Messages
441
In the case of Impie and that Shadowman drama, they made explicit, in your face political statements in their wads rather than their wads simply being made by someone with particular political leanings. For Impie in particular, he made ENTIRE TCs that were political statements. So it's not exactly the same as a wad that happens to be made by someone with certain views that aren't expressed in it...

I'd rather have less talented modders if it also meant there were less troons around. Troons kill every community that tolerates them with their endless drama and witch-hunts and turn the whole place into a toxic cesspit where everyone has to walk on eggshells for fear of offending the disgusting flesh golems and sending them into a shit-flinging tantrum.

All these things, that so so many mappers being LGBTetc, drama, and the community being so creative and innovative even after all these years sadly go together... Some of the people who most push the envelopes with difficulty and design in Doom community are exactly like that.

What a race traitor.
Is he though... iirc he made a comparison between the Tormentor situation and some MachineGames guy where the latter case hasn't produced any comparable drama. Which is salient bc MachineGames tend to be taken for a super hip, progressive studio by the sort of people who would likely stand against Tormentor in that situation.
 
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lightbane

Arcane
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
8,977
iirc he made a comparison between the Tormentor situation and some MachineGames guy where the latter case hasn't produced any comparable drama. Which is salient bc MachineGames tend to be taken for a super hip, progressive studio by the sort of people who would likely stand against Tormentor in that situation.
Right, I forgot, he commented that. I dunno what was the answer to said statement. I suppose that since Machine Games are from the "good crowd", anything they do is kosher, even when they shouldn't.

For Impie in particular, he made ENTIRE TCs that were political statements. So it's not exactly the same as a wad that happens to be made by someone with certain views that aren't expressed in it...

Even if that's the case, if the gameplay is fine then it's not that bad, and that tends to be the case in Impie's wads. Plus I prefer statements that denounce modern world's insanity than those trying to brainwash you to accept everything.
 

Ol' Willy

Arcane
Zionist Agent
Joined
May 3, 2020
Messages
11,615
Location
Reichskommissariat Russland
he made ENTIRE TCs that were political statements
Which is forbidden unless you make correct* political statements

*
honkhonk.png
 

Bigg Boss

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
5,998
I didn't know Impie was banned. They banned one of the few creative modders hahaha!!!! I used one of his mods to learn how to mod myself. Assholes.
 

Curratum

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2018
Messages
3,822
The majority of the new wave mapping is bollocks anyway, with a heavy focus on "aesthetics" and a predominance of slaughter maps, which I can't stand anyway.

tbh I haven't gotten around to playing a majority of Doom wads though I really should....but I believe this because as I'm reading through the 2021 Cacowards it feels more like I'm reading some sort of schmaltzy art review than any sort of Doom modding. That 'Doom in Spain Only' synopsis in particular has gone on and waxed more poetic about the names of the maps more than how they actually play

That's pretty much the cacowards every year, for years now, no?
 

mogwaimon

Magister
Joined
Jul 21, 2017
Messages
1,079
The majority of the new wave mapping is bollocks anyway, with a heavy focus on "aesthetics" and a predominance of slaughter maps, which I can't stand anyway.

tbh I haven't gotten around to playing a majority of Doom wads though I really should....but I believe this because as I'm reading through the 2021 Cacowards it feels more like I'm reading some sort of schmaltzy art review than any sort of Doom modding. That 'Doom in Spain Only' synopsis in particular has gone on and waxed more poetic about the names of the maps more than how they actually play

That's pretty much the cacowards every year, for years now, no?

eh I might have only skimmed over last years Cacowards to be fair, it just feels especially jarring since last time I was bored enough to skim through the Cacowards (the past years in general) the prose wasn't nearly so rosy and up its own ass
 

Riskbreaker

Guest
Overwritten it sure is but they successfully convinced me to try out Old Still Life. I actually have something of a weak spot for weird, atmosphere-porn Russian wads (Sacrament, ALT, Eternal's stuff) that seem to be its main inspiration.
 

Lagi

Savant
Joined
Jul 19, 2015
Messages
548
Location
Desert
ashes enriched is the best from this caco awards.

its not even a doom mod, it's a completely different game. With brand new enemies - NO frankenspriting, all are new. New weapons. New textures. there are even some narrative elements, dialogues, plots.

When i start playing it, i feel the melee would be big part of the game. But there is abundance of ammo. Still quick knive attack, or bashing with shotgun is nice add on.
 

Tacgnol

Shitlord
Patron
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Messages
1,870,218
Location
Pronouns: Shitlord/problematic
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
ashes enriched is the best from this caco awards.

its not even a doom mod, it's a completely different game. With brand new enemies - NO frankenspriting, all are new. New weapons. New textures. there are even some narrative elements, dialogues, plots.

When i start playing it, i feel the melee would be big part of the game. But there is abundance of ammo. Still quick knive attack, or bashing with shotgun is nice add on.

I was never overswimming in ammo on survival mode. At least not till the end game of Afterglow which threw a lot of 556 ammo around.
 

iqzulk

Augur
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Messages
292
Closest to Doom lies Muller level of Pathways into Darkness.

Three and a half community maps differentiating Doom from PiD are Eden-Redrum (CIA reminiscent somewhat), Castevil (City-Indian-Contemporary reminiscent somewhat) and Voidship (Ether-80s-Yap reminiscent somewhat).

These maps emphasize on Doom's differences from PiD, PiD being extremely concept-heavy game actually.
John Romero's aspect of Doom.
The first angle is Pacific Theater Polybunker Eradication Pulloff which seems to be in USA patriotism widespread moreover exportable.
The second angle is Prairian Sole Survival Clean City Derivation which also seems to be non-close-knit-topic on surface.
The third angle is Procuring Communication Credential Open which seems to be non-morbid aspect of 80s.

All three are un-PiD.
PiD requires treating hits as injuries lasting which leads to one establishing multiple-per-second updating minimap which leads to pulling world depicted through the character in order to have ability to shift correctly without turning.
This leads to the ability to play Marathon 68k version in Total Carnage Unwavering treating enemies as morphing net of moving walls, sliding past them in miniscule space, which, the unwaver, allows for hidden AI patterns to show themselves in the action, Gheritt White terminal kills them, and so does lowering difficulty even once. This leads to the special playthrough of G4 Sunbathing in which aggroed enemies scour the level while you explore from the tiny base in the center, clawing further and further into Fuck Knows.
Thirdly, 95 version of Marathon 2 is perceived as simply nice change of tone leading to the Level Largely Abandoned which simply is.
All this ties into Government-Approved slew of ADA coding techniques.
As such aforementioned is differentiation from Government-Flair-Of-ADA, which in Doom's language is Mc Gee.
Mc Gee mapped strictly in Government-Approved-ADA fraction of Romero's spectrum point being Poser And Putz. As such, USA-ADA-Doom is McGee-ism, SimonOC-Quake-Blue-McGee being More C++ Like.

Counter to Mc Gee these three and a half maps allow to center at unMcGee-Romero's aspect of Doom.

Would be probably apt to use them as mutually exclusive prologues not to deal with USA-ADA-aspect of Doom if one fancies a
There is also Ichbiah-ADA flair of ADA which is not here the point.
If one fancies some mappin Dewm Liek.

Those prologues connect to E1-4b-8b-E1, E5 and Doom 2 Eternal Kvernmo as stalker-bordering Romero parody being still Doom 2 centered, all those feature Single Player Pacing as campaigns not only level per level.
Moreover those connect to Quake as will be entertained below.

In other words, the playthrough is either Eden-Redrum-E14b8bE1-E5-Doom2Eternal, Castevil-... or Voidship-..., these are three different major campaigns to be treated presumably as progressing.
Keywords are respectively somehow Wall-Impenetrability, Self-reminiscence and Omnidirectional.
Through Romero's levels in Quake, these connect respectively to Manowar-Quake (techbase-Romero), Uriah-Heep-Quake (fantasy-Romero) and Final-Countdown-Quake (end-Romero), in more or less manner, one might THUS treat Quake Doom 3D like.
In other words, Romero's position was to Splice Quake Threefold.

For one that allows for deletion of Quake from Hecatomb being part Romero's Idea With Dragon.

For two, that allows for separation of Quake from Doom 1 and 2, Quake-immanent versions are rather Manowar-ish, Uriah-Heep-ish and Final-Countdown-ish rather than Eden-Redrum-reminiscent, Castevil-reminiscent and Voidship-reminiscent.
Those two interpretations mismatch, which separate Quake-Doom3D from Doom 1 and 2 understood as above.
In other words, Quake-Doom3D might be trite, music is not.

Nevermind.
 

HansDampf

Arcane
Joined
Dec 15, 2015
Messages
1,300
So, Eviternity...
A little over two years ago, this was the first megawad I've played after the original Doom and Doom II episodes. And I loved every minute of it. At first, I tried to beat every map without saves (UV pistol start, of course), but stopped somewhere in the snow episode and continued playing with saves because it got too difficult for me back then. I left it as a challenge for another time.
Now I played through it again, not only to finally beat this challenge and see if my Doom skillz have improved, but I was also curious how it holds up now that I have a bit more experience.

And to my surprise, I could beat the majority of the maps with just one attempt. It's kind of a surreal experience when I get to parts that I clearly remember having big problems with, like the library arena in map 05 or the final fight in map 12. Like I'm mentally prepared for the worst, and then there's barely a handful of monsters showing up, with lots of space to move around. Why was this so difficult again? I also used to think the big Cacodemon wave in map 15 was "a lot of monsters". Seems rather cute in hindsight.
A few maps stand out though, like map 22, the second hell map with the Archviles, which was the only map that required actually planning a route (and a consistent method for the yellow key fight). Map 25, the final hell map, also took me multiple attempts. I still think this arena is pure chaos, and sometimes you just run into a Captain or Annihilator at the wrong moment. But my highest death count was in map 17 for some odd reason. I don't think that map is particularly hard. I was just tilting and got reckless.
And then there are, of course, the two long maps 32 and 19. My opinion on those has completely switched. I used to like 32 for its open and non-linear design. But to play this map again felt like a chore, seeing all those millions of Imps scattered on cliffs, sniping fatties everywhere, and then the Lost Souls... What were they thinking?! It's just so annoying and grindy. 20 minutes in, I realized that I wouldn't even want to play this map with saves. So I skipped it. :shittydog:
Map 19, otoh, grew on me. Playing this without saves turns it into a completely different experience. At one point, somewhere in the last third of the map, I was stuck in an area with 11% health and no medikits around. One misstep could have cost me 40 minutes, and the only way to go was forward. That was intense. I would say this was the most difficult map, even though I only died twice in a relatively early fight with 3 or 4 Annihilators where I caught a random rocket each time.

How does Eviternity hold up? I still like it for the style, the visuals, and atmosphere. But the actual combat is a bit lame. Like, here is a big fight. How do we design it? I dunno, just throw in a bit of everything, I guess. Even the signature fight with the Cacodemon wave in map 15 is - Cacos aside - just a big hotchpotch of monsters randomly thrown into an open arena. The fights I've seen in the Sunlusts, Stardates, etc., and now also Fractured Worlds, are so much more interesting and diverse.
I still like the Langoliers, though. And I learned to respect the Nightmare Demons a bit more because they are faster than pinkies and consistently managed to block my path.
Curiously, almost all of my favorite maps from Eviternity were not made by Dragonfly, or at least not by him alone (22 is the only exception). :M

Maybe I should also revisit Ancient Aliens at some point.
 

taviow

Arcane
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Messages
1,592
So, Eviternity...

Once you start getting into actual elaborate and clever combat like Sunlust or something, then your standards do change and you just can't go back to fairly generic fights like Eviternity. It looks really good! And the maps are huge! But as you said the combat is never very well thought out.
 

Tacgnol

Shitlord
Patron
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Messages
1,870,218
Location
Pronouns: Shitlord/problematic
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker

Sjukob

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Messages
1,676
So I played Bloodstain. This wad is all about heavy fighting and towards the end it reaches slaughter level monster density. I was having good time with it until I reached the final portion of the maps and it's where the difficulty goes full on bullshit. Traps full of revenants, archviles and chaingunners at every corner, lack of ammo unless you hunt for secrets, some parts are plain impossible to beat without BFG and the only way to acquire it is to find a secret. The shit this wad throws at you would make Hell Revealed blush, here's the section that annoyed me the most, it's in map27:
2r2r.jpg

You have to go through the arc corridor from the upper part to the lower part, below in the center of the room (where the blue dot is) stands the spider mastermind, who can shoot you almost point blank and therefore can waste you in seconds. The corridor itself is very narrow, you can just barely sidestep a projectile there, as soon as you step in the door behind you closes and several barons and revenants appear in the corridor, and by that time the only ammo I had left was ammo for the chaingun and berserk power up, thanks to ammo starvation and me not finding any secrets. There are some tiny pillars in that corridor to protect you from spider's mastermind fire, but you can't stand behind them, because the revenants and barons would kill you if you don't move, but you can't move, because the spider mastermind would make a minced meat out of you. I watched some videos on youtube to see how other people did this and everyone I saw acquired a secret BFG and just nuked the room, I don't think it's possible to beat it any other way.

And the final maps are all like this, similar bullshit being repeatedly thrown at you again and again, it gets very tiresome very quickly. I cheated on final maps, because fuck it, I'm not dealing with this retarded design.

Otherwise the wad has decent visuals and good selection of music (a good number of famous songs converted into MIDI format), I can sort of recommend it if you avoid playing the later maps entirely or play it on lower difficulties.

Screenshots:
 
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
1,868,749
Location
Kitchen sink
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Riskbreaker

Guest
So this was in development for a while but the dev opened a thread on DW only today:

I'm hoping for something akin to Unloved, that sweet combo of Doom, Hexen... and Silent Hill 4.
The dev is opting for the Solace Dreams school of using voxels for everything for which voxels can conceivably be used, so I expect that the framerate might turn out a horror story of its own.
 

Sjukob

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Messages
1,676
So Rowdy Rudy 2. I haven't played it's predecessors, but I've found this wad to be very enjoyable. The first couple of levels are very easy and I was afraid that the rest of the wad was going to be like that, but it's not the case, it just has a very smooth difficulty progression. Map 8 gives you a big and warm welcome with a big group of monsters right at the start, from here and on it will only keep getting harder as you progress, Rowdy Rudy 2 is not a difficult wad in general, but there are some fight that you might have to redo a couple of times, probably the most memorable fight for me happens right in the begging of map 18, where you have to run away from a big group of barons that chases you in tight corridors, so don't get discouraged by a trivial indtroduction, it does get better later on. I really like the new arsenal it introduces, especially the instant weapon switching, weapon balacing and slow weapon switching have always been some of biggest problem with Doom for me, so I'm glad that the authors gave it some attention, you can read about all of the changes in wad's topic on Doomworld. There are some new monsters too, they don't do anything extraordinary, but I think they fit gameplay pretty well. Rowdy Rudy's levels have simple layouts and visuals, it feels like you are playing a wad from later 90s or early 2000s, most of the secrets are pretty easy to spot and find and I'm thankful for that, from my experience most of the mappers for Doom want you to to just hump every wall you see to find the secrets, they don't usually give you good visual clues, Rowdy Rudy 2 does the exact opposite. The only map I don't like in this wad is map20, which is about slaughtery combat, only that it's pretty stingy with ammo for some reason, don't know who decided to do that, but the experience is pretty miserable.

I strongly recommend this wad, it's nothing mindblowing, but it's good fun to play.

Screenshots:
gzdoom-2022-02-05-13-41-21-12.png

gzdoom-2022-02-05-17-08-45-51.png

gzdoom-2022-02-05-21-45-25-26.png

gzdoom-2022-02-05-21-45-41-07.png

gzdoom-2022-02-06-23-01-52-40.png

gzdoom-2022-02-07-01-35-30-63.png
 

Alphons

Cipher
Joined
Nov 20, 2019
Messages
1,956
So Rowdy Rudy 2. I haven't played it's predecessors, but I've found this wad to be very enjoyable.

RR 1 was a solo effort, while RR 2 is a community WAD. It's really noticeable in level design.
 

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