GreedFall II: The Dying World - prequel with party-based RTwP combat where native PC travels to the old continent - now available on Early Access

[scytheavatar]

The problem is that it's difficult for people to look at Greedfall 2 and not ask in what way it is an improved game from Greedfall 1. It honestly blows my mind that no one in Spiders saw the combat of Greedfall 2 and say "hey you all, this is fucking garbage and there's no way we can release the game on early access in this state".

 

[Bad Sector]

Perhaps i need to replay Greedfall, i only played it once back when it came out and i do remember the combat to be simplistic (and barely changed over their Mars games) and among its weakest aspects, so my impression when reading that Greedfall 2 will have an RtWP system inspired by Dragon Age Origins is that such a change would be an improvement over what was there previously. Perhaps i misremember?

 

[Roguey]

The problem is that it's difficult for people to look at Greedfall 2 and not ask in what way it is an improved game from Greedfall 1. It honestly blows my mind that no one in Spiders saw the combat of Greedfall 2 and say "hey you all, this is fucking garbage and there's no way we can release the game on early access in this state".

A game can be released in early access in any somewhat-functioning state, that's the point.

 

[scytheavatar]

The problem is that it's difficult for people to look at Greedfall 2 and not ask in what way it is an improved game from Greedfall 1. It honestly blows my mind that no one in Spiders saw the combat of Greedfall 2 and say "hey you all, this is fucking garbage and there's no way we can release the game on early access in this state".

A game can be released in early access in any somewhat-functioning state, that's the point.

If not enough players touch a game during early access, then it kills the point of early access. And right now the game is facing a huge backlash especially from normies. Go look at the youtube comment section of any video for the game.

Good luck to Spiders anyway, but IMHO they are fighting an uphill battle without drastic changes to the combat.

Perhaps i need to replay Greedfall, i only played it once back when it came out and i do remember the combat to be simplistic (and barely changed over their Mars games) and among its weakest aspects, so my impression when reading that Greedfall 2 will have an RtWP system inspired by Dragon Age Origins is that such a change would be an improvement over what was there previously. Perhaps i misremember?

Don't get me wrong Greedfall 1 combat is not amazing or anything, but it is not awful either. Greedfall 2 combat on the other hand is awful, even among all the RTWP games the animations are a complete joke.

 

[Roguey]

If not enough players touch a game during early access, then it kills the point of early access. And right now the game is facing a huge backlash especially from normies. Go look at the youtube comment section of any video for the game.

Good luck to Spiders anyway, but IMHO they are fighting an uphill battle without drastic changes to the combat.

Doesn't matter how well executed the combat is, a change in genre is going to make people who liked the previous one mad.

 

[scytheavatar]

If not enough players touch a game during early access, then it kills the point of early access. And right now the game is facing a huge backlash especially from normies. Go look at the youtube comment section of any video for the game.

Good luck to Spiders anyway, but IMHO they are fighting an uphill battle without drastic changes to the combat.

Doesn't matter how well executed the combat is, a change in genre is going to make people who liked the previous one mad.

I mean, lots of people in Codex were made at what Larian did with Baldur's Gate 3, but in the end no one cares about these fossils. Cause every 1 of these crybabies is replaced by 10 new fans. And that's all because BG3 is an amazing game.

Spiders has no reason to care about backlash for Greedfall 2 combat if it looks good, problem is that it doesn't. It will be difficult for them to get the ones who love Dragon Age Origins to say "wow this looks amazing!" and gain new fans to replace old ones.

 

[Roguey]

I mean, lots of people in Codex were made at what Larian did with Baldur's Gate 3, but in the end no one cares about these fossils. Cause every 1 of these crybabies is replaced by 10 new fans. And that's all because BG3 is an amazing game.

Spiders has no reason to care about backlash for Greedfall 2 combat if it looks good, problem is that it doesn't. It will be difficult for them to get the ones who love Dragon Age Origins to say "wow this looks amazing!" and gain new fans to replace old ones.

Switching from rtwp to turn based isn't an incredibly radical change, you're going from one form of indirect control to another. Here they're going from direct to indirect, a genre with broader appeal to one a bit more narrow.

 

[Bad Sector]

It will be difficult for them to get the ones who love Dragon Age Origins to say "wow this looks amazing!" and gain new fans to replace old ones.

Here they're going from direct to indirect, a genre with broader appeal to one a bit more narrow.

Note that i watched only the "fight smarter" part in the last posted video, i haven't really watched any Greedfall 2 videos so far mainly because i wasn't that interested in the game when i learned it was a prequel - especially one that felt like Spiders' new overlords pushed them to make as this is the first time ever they made an actual sequel (or prequel) for their games and instead they always made up new worlds/settings for their games (exception being Technomancer but while technically it is in the same universe as Mars War Logs, in practice the setup feels very different). It kinda felt less creative compared to their previous works, IMO.

If anything having a new combat system is the most interesting thing i've heard about the game, but aside from that video segment i haven't really looked anything else. Is there something i am missing? Please explain if so because i don't see what the issue with the ~1m part in the video is all about.

From what i can see, this is basically a realtime system that you can pause instead of a system where everything runs in discrete "turns" that happen automatically and you can pause that automatic passage of time - think more Mass Effect 1 and less Neverwinter Nights 1. It seems that you can give commands to the PCs - like attack (which judging from the UI, it even uses the A button in the xbox gamepad which is a common attack button even in pure action games) - and there is some way for these commands to stack when paused using action points to define how many commands you can stack (many commands where each uses a few action points vs a few commands that each use a lot of action points). Some commands also seem to have cooldown timers (i saw one with 40s for barely a frame in the video), which is something i've seen in a lot of games the last couple decades - i think including Spiders' previous games.

TBH i don't see what exactly is the issue here - is something that was posted elsewhere? I was playing Dragon Age Origins a bit just a few days ago and based on the video segment i mentioned above, it basically looks more or less the same - if anything it looks more "direct" (to use Roguey's term) since judging from the UI you seem to be able to just move next to someone and press the attack button (like in most ARPGs) whereas in Dragon Age you have to click on them to give the command to your PC to move there and attack. And in Dragon Age Origins you can't stack commands which is always something that Neverwinter Nights had and i missed, so seeing it in Greedfall 2 makes me think it is even better there (though it loses points by seemingly lacking somethnig like Tactics - something i wish pretty much any game where you have a party would have, including turn based ones by setting some party members to work with tactics rules automatically instead of waiting for you to explicitly give commands - though perhaps it is just Spiders not wanting to scare people away by showing what is basically a primitive visual programming language :-P).

 

[Late Bloomer]

uh-oh

Greedfall 2 production allegedly “underwater” just weeks before launch
An open letter from employees has criticized management at Spiders and has painted a concerning picture of Greedfall 2's development.

https://www.pcgamesn.com/greedfall-2/spiders-devs-open-letter

“The early access release is painful, as attested by the several delays it suffered, and the complete release of the game less than a year later seems difficult to achieve, as there is so much left to do,” the letter reads. While there has been no public shifting of dates or acknowledgement of an internal delay, the letter suggests that early access should have arrived much sooner than its current September 24 date. Another line in the letter says that the early access launch was “postponed several times.”

“The production is underwater, accumulating burnouts and other psycho-social risk factors, and the workers fear they won’t be able to be proud of their work when the game is released,” the letter also claims. “Many people have left Spiders during the production, and others have no intention of staying after the game’s release.”

 

[Late Bloomer]

Oh no...

Spiders workers to strike as open letter calls out mismanagement
Collective action at the Greedfall studio is planned for the week starting September 2

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/spide...ter-calls-out-mismanagement?mc_cid=04c31879f7

44 workers out of Spiders' 95 staff signed the Spiders Action Committee letter as of August 27, with the strike to take place on September 2 and 3 in front of Spiders' offices and online on a Minecraft server set up for the occasion.

 

[scytheavatar]

It will be difficult for them to get the ones who love Dragon Age Origins to say "wow this looks amazing!" and gain new fans to replace old ones.

Here they're going from direct to indirect, a genre with broader appeal to one a bit more narrow.

Note that i watched only the "fight smarter" part in the last posted video, i haven't really watched any Greedfall 2 videos so far mainly because i wasn't that interested in the game when i learned it was a prequel - especially one that felt like Spiders' new overlords pushed them to make as this is the first time ever they made an actual sequel (or prequel) for their games and instead they always made up new worlds/settings for their games (exception being Technomancer but while technically it is in the same universe as Mars War Logs, in practice the setup feels very different). It kinda felt less creative compared to their previous works, IMO.

If anything having a new combat system is the most interesting thing i've heard about the game, but aside from that video segment i haven't really looked anything else. Is there something i am missing? Please explain if so because i don't see what the issue with the ~1m part in the video is all about.

From what i can see, this is basically a realtime system that you can pause instead of a system where everything runs in discrete "turns" that happen automatically and you can pause that automatic passage of time - think more Mass Effect 1 and less Neverwinter Nights 1. It seems that you can give commands to the PCs - like attack (which judging from the UI, it even uses the A button in the xbox gamepad which is a common attack button even in pure action games) - and there is some way for these commands to stack when paused using action points to define how many commands you can stack (many commands where each uses a few action points vs a few commands that each use a lot of action points). Some commands also seem to have cooldown timers (i saw one with 40s for barely a frame in the video), which is something i've seen in a lot of games the last couple decades - i think including Spiders' previous games.

TBH i don't see what exactly is the issue here - is something that was posted elsewhere? I was playing Dragon Age Origins a bit just a few days ago and based on the video segment i mentioned above, it basically looks more or less the same - if anything it looks more "direct" (to use Roguey's term) since judging from the UI you seem to be able to just move next to someone and press the attack button (like in most ARPGs) whereas in Dragon Age you have to click on them to give the command to your PC to move there and attack. And in Dragon Age Origins you can't stack commands which is always something that Neverwinter Nights had and i missed, so seeing it in Greedfall 2 makes me think it is even better there (though it loses points by seemingly lacking somethnig like Tactics - something i wish pretty much any game where you have a party would have, including turn based ones by setting some party members to work with tactics rules automatically instead of waiting for you to explicitly give commands - though perhaps it is just Spiders not wanting to scare people away by showing what is basically a primitive visual programming language :-P).

I mean, if you can't see how laughably and irredeemably dogshit the animations are, you need your eyes checked. DAO has way better animations for an ancient game.

This is the trap that many AA productions fall into, they try photorealistic AAA graphics cause Unreal is giving them free high quality assets, but they do not have AAA level animations to go with them. The end result is that they get something which looks more uncanny valley and worse than what they could get with lower quality assets.

 

[Roguey]

I mean, if you can't see how laughably and irredeemably dogshit the animations are, you need your eyes checked. DAO has way better animations for an ancient game.

I don't see the stark difference between the two and I also don't think animations are all that important in a rtwp game. What's important to me is how responsive the characters are and visual clarity.

 

[Tyranicon]

Oh no...

Spiders workers to strike as open letter calls out mismanagement
Collective action at the Greedfall studio is planned for the week starting September 2

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/spide...ter-calls-out-mismanagement?mc_cid=04c31879f7

44 workers out of Spiders' 95 staff signed the Spiders Action Committee letter as of August 27, with the strike to take place on September 2 and 3 in front of Spiders' offices and online on a Minecraft server set up for the occasion.

Nothing makes you feel as old when you find out people are having legitimate employment strikes on a Minecraft server. Holy Shit.

 

[Yoomazir]

"Psycho social risks factor" "organized strike with a Minecraft server set up for the occasion"...
Is there a irl picture of these people, I really wanna see if they're the soy type.

 

[Bad Sector]

So it turns out that getting acquired by a publisher and giving up independence was not for the best.

I do wonder how many of those 44 who will strike and how many of those who left are people who used to work at Spiders before they were bought.

I mean, if you can't see how laughably and irredeemably dogshit the animations are, you need your eyes checked. DAO has way better animations for an ancient game.

This is the trap that many AA productions fall into, they try photorealistic AAA graphics cause Unreal is giving them free high quality assets, but they do not have AAA level animations to go with them. The end result is that they get something which looks more uncanny valley and worse than what they could get with lower quality assets.

Ah sorry, i think i completely misunderstood your post, i was under the impression the discussion was about the combat mechanics.

I didn't really paid any attention to animations and overall i have the same stance as Roguey here - if anything i think i am more lenient, especially for smaller budget games. Or really, even in higher budget games - i mean, even in DAO this is Leliana "singing" :-P

Aside from finding it amusing, it never bothered me.

 

[Dishonoredbr]

Oh no...

Spiders workers to strike as open letter calls out mismanagement
Collective action at the Greedfall studio is planned for the week starting September 2

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/spide...ter-calls-out-mismanagement?mc_cid=04c31879f7

44 workers out of Spiders' 95 staff signed the Spiders Action Committee letter as of August 27, with the strike to take place on September 2 and 3 in front of Spiders' offices and online on a Minecraft server set up for the occasion.

Wait are they really doing a protest using.. MINECRAFT?

 

[lukaszek]

Wait are they really doing a protest using.. MINECRAFT?

look at that pic, they cant even build shit

 

[Elttharion]

► UNACCEPTABLE DELAYS IN ACHIEVING GENDER EQUALITY AND PARITY: the gender balance at Spiders remains well below the already low industry average, and women employee's averagewage is considerably lower than men's.

Generally speaking, and despite questions and alerts having been raised for several years byworkers and their representatives, almost no effort is made to encourage the recruitment,retention and inclusion of marginalized people. This applies equally to recruiting, coaching andadapting the work organization...

The overall average salaries of men and women workers in the company are almost identical ifwe include managers in the data. But within those with employee status (i.e. the majority ofworkers), we find that on 2023 figures women are paid an average of 14% less than men. Apurely unacceptable gap, which has doubled since 2021!

This sexist, hypocritical Spiders is not who we work for, and we're ashamed of it.

 

[Late Bloomer]

► UNACCEPTABLE DELAYS IN ACHIEVING GENDER EQUALITY AND PARITY: the gender balance at Spiders remains well below the already low industry average, and women employee's averagewage is considerably lower than men's.

Generally speaking, and despite questions and alerts having been raised for several years byworkers and their representatives, almost no effort is made to encourage the recruitment,retention and inclusion of marginalized people. This applies equally to recruiting, coaching andadapting the work organization...

The overall average salaries of men and women workers in the company are almost identical ifwe include managers in the data. But within those with employee status (i.e. the majority ofworkers), we find that on 2023 figures women are paid an average of 14% less than men. Apurely unacceptable gap, which has doubled since 2021!

This sexist, hypocritical Spiders is not who we work for, and we're ashamed of it.

Those all sound like favourable conditions to make a fun game. Too bad that isn't the case. I imagine a good deal of their "male" employees aren't male at all.

 

[Roguey]

► UNACCEPTABLE DELAYS IN ACHIEVING GENDER EQUALITY AND PARITY: the gender balance at Spiders remains well below the already low industry average, and women employee's averagewage is considerably lower than men's.

Generally speaking, and despite questions and alerts having been raised for several years byworkers and their representatives, almost no effort is made to encourage the recruitment,retention and inclusion of marginalized people. This applies equally to recruiting, coaching andadapting the work organization...

The overall average salaries of men and women workers in the company are almost identical ifwe include managers in the data. But within those with employee status (i.e. the majority ofworkers), we find that on 2023 figures women are paid an average of 14% less than men. Apurely unacceptable gap, which has doubled since 2021!

This sexist, hypocritical Spiders is not who we work for, and we're ashamed of it.

This is doubly stupid because the former and current CEO are both women.

 

[Raghar]

► UNACCEPTABLE DELAYS IN ACHIEVING GENDER EQUALITY AND PARITY: the gender balance at Spiders remains well below the already low industry average, and women employee's averagewage is considerably lower than men's.

Generally speaking, and despite questions and alerts having been raised for several years byworkers and their representatives, almost no effort is made to encourage the recruitment,retention and inclusion of marginalized people. This applies equally to recruiting, coaching andadapting the work organization...

The overall average salaries of men and women workers in the company are almost identical ifwe include managers in the data. But within those with employee status (i.e. the majority ofworkers), we find that on 2023 figures women are paid an average of 14% less than men. Apurely unacceptable gap, which has doubled since 2021!

This sexist, hypocritical Spiders is not who we work for, and we're ashamed of it.

WTF software engineers shouldn't be hired because they are females. They should be hired according to source code they made, and engineering tests done by employer. Then there is also problem if they would fit in the team.

I never heard about idea about wanting to have high ratio of females in 1990s. And frankly considering how games made by Spiders were crap, I think they should concentrate improving their skills and make at least under average software.

They kinda nearly had it with Greedfall. (And main problem of Mars:war logs was it was too short game < 19 hours. And yea, it was a junk, but at least tried with story and doing something new.)

 

[Bad Sector]

This is doubly stupid because the former and current CEO are both women.

I didn't knew Jehanne Rousseau isn't the CEO anymore. Apparently four months ago she was replaced by Anne Devouassoux who previously worked at some other Nacon owned gamedev (Kylotonn, making racing games).

 

[Raghar]

Her replacement is more aesthetical. But her previous game was "WRC 9".

Spiders are doing poor attempts at action RPGs, so she's like fish out of water.

 

[Abu Antar]

 

[NaturallyCarnivorousSheep]

I mean, lots of people in Codex were made at what Larian did with Baldur's Gate 3, but in the end no one cares about these fossils. Cause every 1 of these crybabies is replaced by 10 new fans. And that's all because BG3 is an amazing game.

While penetrating the mind of BG3 hater is difficult I think it being TB is that controversial.

Also yeah I expected greedfall shifting from action to RTwP to end up enraging normies.