Grimoire Thread

[kain611]

First post in......awhile....what did I miss? When is the inevitable sequel coming Cleve?

 

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

First post in......awhile....what did I miss? When is the inevitable sequel coming Cleve?

You don't even know what you don't know. You don't even know that I know that you don't know what I know about what you don't know.

Turns out ... I don't know either. When the sequel is coming.

 

[Lady Error]

First post in......awhile....what did I miss? When is the inevitable sequel coming Cleve?

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...t-generic-rpg-blobber-engine-complete.139528/

Not Grimoire 2, but a Wizardry-style RPG nevertheless.

 

[Fedora Master]

Tried the new patch. Still boring and too long/slow.

e: lol completely wrong thread I thought this was the Grim Dawn thread.

 

[Lady Error]

Looks like Grimoire is once again free on Steam. V4 incoming?

Grimoire has been on the GOG front page for a couple days... for $2.

 

[Arthandas]

for $2

Like I said - free.

During the previous sale Cleve said it's the second to last discount before the "V4 Mega Excellence Git Gud version", so I'm assuming it's almost done, probably just a year or two before release.

 

[Kliwer]

I have finally purchased this blessed baby of Incline. I'm getting ready for the first, virgin game.


It took me a long time to think about this purchase. Mainly because some of the gameplay features are not to my liking. Generally, I don't like the "phase" combat system. I also don't like RPG systems based on crazy multiclassing. I am also rejected by all these "animal" races (half-wolves, half-lizards etc.) with almost no lore about them.


Whatever. Since the game has been recognized by Codex as a blessing - let's give it a chance.


After a few hours spent on the manual with paper and pencil, I finally finished planning my team. I am asking for your comments and pointing out cardinal errors.


1. Barrower: Metalsmith->Berserker [class change around level 9-10]

2. Giant: Warrior->Berserker [class change around level 7-8]

3. Leonar: Ranger->Warrior->Pirate [first class change around 6-7 level; second class change as soon as possible]

4. Naga: Thief->Assassin [class change as soon as possible]


5. Wolfin: Cleric->Templar [class change after level 9]

6. Feyfolk: Bard->Sage->Necromancer [first class change after level 9; second class change as soon as possible]

7. Aeorb: Sage->Wizard [class change after level 9]

8. Barrower: Wizard->Thaumaturg [class change after level 9]

I will only develop attributes to the level necessary to change the class; the rest will be collected and spend only after the final class change.

Is there anything else I should know?


As I said - I don't really like multiclassing. I tried to limit myself to 2-3 classes per character.


Additional question: can this game be played comfortably with a team of single-class characters?

 

[Ludwig von Eisenthal]

I have finally purchased this blessed baby of Incline. I'm getting ready for the first, virgin game.


It took me a long time to think about this purchase. Mainly because some of the gameplay features are not to my liking. Generally, I don't like the "phase" combat system. I also don't like RPG systems based on crazy multiclassing. I am also rejected by all these "animal" races (half-wolves, half-lizards etc.) with almost no lore about them.


Whatever. Since the game has been recognized by Codex as a blessing - let's give it a chance.


After a few hours spent on the manual with paper and pencil, I finally finished planning my team. I am asking for your comments and pointing out cardinal errors.


1. Barrower: Metalsmith->Berserker [class change around level 9-10]

2. Giant: Warrior->Berserker [class change around level 7-8]

3. Leonar: Ranger->Warrior->Pirate [first class change around 6-7 level; second class change as soon as possible]

4. Naga: Thief->Assassin [class change as soon as possible]


5. Wolfin: Cleric->Templar [class change after level 9]

6. Feyfolk: Bard->Sage->Necromancer [first class change after level 9; second class change as soon as possible]

7. Aeorb: Sage->Wizard [class change after level 9]

8. Barrower: Wizard->Thaumaturg [class change after level 9]

I will only develop attributes to the level necessary to change the class; the rest will be collected and spend only after the final class change.

Is there anything else I should know?


As I said - I don't really like multiclassing. I tried to limit myself to 2-3 classes per character.


Additional question: can this game be played comfortably with a team of single-class characters?

I also don't like multiclassing - normally. But here I became a crazy multiclass-fanatic and couldn't rest before not every single one of my characters had at least five class changes. I think multiclassing is part of the soul of Grimoire. And even if you really don't like multiclassing you should try to get yourself a Jester. It's more than worth it.

 

[Lady Error]

Additional question: can this game be played comfortably with a team of single-class characters?

Yes. You can also recruit lots of NPC characters, including a Jester. You don't have to multiclass.

 

[Kliwer]

Judging by the traffic in the thread - I'm terribly late for the party . Whatever.


I'm not that far in the game yet. I am visiting the third larger location (Gardens of Midnight). Behind me there are two pretty cool dungeons (Shrine of Raptor, Aquavia) and one completely shitty (some cave with a ghost-boss). Overall, my impressions are positive, although the game also has a lot of obvious weaknesses. Some inevitable, some incomprehensible.

Exploration is fine; a bit like M&M but content is not so dense. The combat system is pointless and boring. In general, I like everything that resembles M&M in this game. And I don't like anything that resembles Wizardry (but that's a personal preference). In fact, the game could be briefly described as a mixture of these two styles of gameplay.


Random observations:

- I love the dialogue system. Having to type the right words yourself makes everything seem so mysterious. Game developers really should use this system more often.

- I have no problem with the fact that our logbook does not record all information automatically. And yet keeping notes on a piece of paper is tiring and unnecessary. The game should offer us some kind of journal/notebook inside the software itself. It would be nice to be able to manually note down "inside" the game, especially during dialogues. For example, it would be useful to have a diary that we can open at any time. Preferably with 5-10 bookmarks that we can manually name. I know I can open the game in a window mod and write in the notepad. But it's not the same. Overall, the lack of such a tool is my main complaint against this game.

- There are too many random fights, even on the "rare" setting.

- In fights, I would definitely prefer the classic turn-based system (action-> reaction) to the current "phase" system. This solution has always rejected me from the Wizardry series.

- Overall, I like the game's fantastic, fairy-tale atmosphere. The only thing that irritates me are these "animal" races. I hate when our gang looks like a fucking zoo. Half lizards, half wolves, half cats... It reminds me of those idiotic cartoons where animals play people...

I also don't like the fact that we can play evil races (drows, vampires). This clashes with the classic, adventure gameplay style.


- Overall, the game does not go beyond the classic dungeon-crawler style. For me, this has one negative consequence: our team is really nothing more than a table of numbers and parameters. If the parameter names were changed, we might as well steer a tank with eight customizable turrets. I know this is standard in this sub-genre. Nevertheless, many newer games try to break this "mechanical" impression. For example, in Wizardry 8 or M&M 10 our characters have some voices and taunts that allow us to treat them as individuals. This was missing here (though for understandable reasons).

I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I would prefer that we did not form the entire team at once. I'd rather find companions in the game world. They are supposed to be in the game - but they have some absurd parameters. In the first city, I wanted to add a fairy-thaumaturge to the team. But when I looked at her character sheet, I quit (more mana than the whole team combined; all skills 40/50+).


We'll see what happens next. The game reminds me of Wizards and Warriors in some ways. Good mechanics and structure of the location, nice dungeon designs, amazing atmosphere of adventure, no hand holding - but at the same time an unpleasant interface and numerous minor inconveniences. A very good game - and very irritating at the same time.

 

[Darth Roxor]

dude plays what is essentially Wizardry 9 and complains that it's too much like Wizardry

 

[Kliwer]

dude plays what is essentially Wizardry 9 and complains that it's too much like Wizardry

I know. I'm not actually a target of this product.

Still, I like the game. Certainly more than Wizardry 7 and 8. I haven't seen an RPG with such complex mechanics for a long time.

However - in my opinion - the game would gain tactical depth if the "phase" system was replaced with a "turn-based" system. But that's just a personal preference.

 

[Fluent]

Hey all. Playing this still and still loving it, but i have to say, I'm a bit saddened that I reloaded so much when hit with Armor Rot/Weapon Destruction. I feel like the game does want u to 'play through' those effects rather than reloading. I'm a bit upset at myself that I didn't stick to that plan. But what do u guys think? Did u all reload when hit with one of those afflictions? I mean, it's just really hard to lose a Bone Dagger or something to weapon destruction, or even your one source of chest armor. Thoughts on this? Thanks!

 

[Butter]

The armor rot/weapon destruction is mostly an early game thing. Later on when you have really good gear you'll barely run into it.

 

[Lady Error]

I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I would prefer that we did not form the entire team at once. I'd rather find companions in the game world. They are supposed to be in the game - but they have some absurd parameters. In the first city, I wanted to add a fairy-thaumaturge to the team. But when I looked at her character sheet, I quit (more mana than the whole team combined; all skills 40/50+).

You can actually play it that way if you want. Pick one or two characters you start with and the rest can be NPC's you meet along the way. As to their stats, Cleve said that NPC's are supposed to make it easier for newbies. Though there is also the fact that they cannot multiclass. Meaning that the initial advantage of the NPC's becomes less as the game progresses if your original characters multiclass.

 

[Ludwig von Eisenthal]

Hey all. Playing this still and still loving it, but i have to say, I'm a bit saddened that I reloaded so much when hit with Armor Rot/Weapon Destruction. I feel like the game does want u to 'play through' those effects rather than reloading. I'm a bit upset at myself that I didn't stick to that plan. But what do u guys think? Did u all reload when hit with one of those afflictions? I mean, it's just really hard to lose a Bone Dagger or something to weapon destruction, or even your one source of chest armor. Thoughts on this? Thanks!

I always reloaded, without hestiation, if one of these goddamn worms fucked my equipment over. And how I sweared like a raving lunatic every single time it happened... man, these were the days.

 

[Dorateen]

The strategy I preferred was trying to incapacitate the monster groups as a priority, either with the lyre of slumber or swaying lute or other spell combinations, and then try to take them out one at a time. Not always easy to do with phased based targeting and row configurations, but a fun challenge.

 

[marux]

How's the phonebook-sized manual coming cleve?

 

[Piotrovitz]

Just restarted it again after a couple of months of break - I just cannot get back to already started cRPG after such a long time.
Last time I got to Kublai Axis and couple of surrounding areas, which I guess is kinda mid-game.

As much as I love this game, with every new restart the flaws I've tried to ignore are more and more glaring.

Balance and difficulty curve are rather wacky - if you're rolling with balanced party (e.g 4-5 melees and 3-4 casters) you can steamroll almost everything.
The only exceptions so far were the fire beetles in Crowl that you encounter right off the bat, which can one shot your mages with fireball. and the weapon/armor-destroying mobs like ore worms and mad 49'ers. The only way out is savescumming and hoping you can whack them before they start to melt your inventory. Oh, and the insta-killing wasps in Eyrie.

Other fights, either with melees or casters, are cakewalk, thanks to finding lethal weapons left and right. Seriously, beside poorly equipped store in Crowl, I've seen more weapons with lethal property than regular ones. IMO instakill should be reserved only for rare artifacts, and the chances should be not dependent on the skill, but rather on weapon itself (e.g like in Wiz 8).

Party of 8 is an interesting idea that's giving you more tactical options, but the encounters are just not adapted to that - it seems that if you want a challenge, you should stick to 5-6 man party.

Also, random loot is boring as fuck - every time it's the same old stuff - cobalt gems, alchemy reagents, flannel shirts, throwing daggers etc

Okay, enough of bitching, I still love it and get instantly immersed, even though it's like my third or fourth restart.

Question on pirate class - while jester has some unique abilities, pirate seems to be a regular melee type, with high stat and exp requirements.
Is there any reason (e.g class specific items) that justifies having him as a final class, instead of, say, warrior?

 

[Butter]

Question on pirate class - while jester has some unique abilities, pirate seems to be a regular melee type, with high stat and exp requirements.
Is there any reason (e.g class specific items) that justifies having him as a final class, instead of, say, warrior?

I can't remember if there's any Pirate-specific gear, but the higher attributes are reason enough. A pirate is going to have a lot higher attributes than a warrior of equal level.

 

[Dorateen]

Pirates get backstab, which can inflict up to triple damage. That is three times warrior-type damage (with a weapon like Excalibur, for example) and persists throughout combat, once the pirate has successfully used stealth. I know not everyone likes the mechanic of hiding for one round, but it is fun to see the subsequent massive damage outputs. And there are end game enemies with high hit points who are otherwise difficult to hit.

 

[Lady Error]

Balance and difficulty curve are rather wacky - if you're rolling with balanced party (e.g 4-5 melees and 3-4 casters) you can steamroll almost everything.

Getting to Kublai means you just finished the starting area really, which is about 25% of the game. If you want a challenge, go to some of the more challenging areas. Plus, it is usually the boss fights that are the biggest challenge.

 

[Piotrovitz]

Pirates get backstab, which can inflict up to triple damage. That is three times warrior-type damage (with a weapon like Excalibur, for example) and persists throughout combat, once the pirate has successfully used stealth. I know not everyone likes the mechanic of hiding for one round, but it is fun to see the subsequent massive damage outputs. And there are end game enemies with high hit points who are otherwise difficult to hit.

What's the point of backstabbing and wasting whole turn to hide, other than adding extra flavor, when you can instakill mobs right away?
Plus, you need to invest both in hiding and backstabbing skills, while lethal blow is just one. Plus you can get backstabbing by dipping in thief class, so there's really no reason to go for a pirate as a final class, which has one of the highest xp requirements.

Lady Error - got it, it's encouraging that things are getting tougher as the game progresses. Right now I'm at the Samhain, and most of my mages have toxic cloud/hailstorm, which thrown on high level can decimate entire groups of mobs. Agree that bosses pose some challenge - for black lich I think I had to turn the difficulty down, because he was constantly spamming finger of death and healed himself while moving to backrow.

 

[Lady Error]

Lady Error - got it, it's encouraging that things are getting tougher as the game progresses. Right now I'm at the Samhain, and most of my mages have toxic cloud/hailstorm, which thrown on high level can decimate entire groups of mobs. Agree that bosses pose some challenge - for black lich I think I had to turn the difficulty down, because he was constantly spamming finger of death and healed himself while moving to backrow.

Samhain is a very early area. And how can you complain about lack of difficulty and at the same time turn the difficulty down in difficult fights?

 

[Lady Error]

For those who haven't already, consider voting for Wizardry 7 in this Codex poll:

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/the-codex’s-best-computer-rpgs-pre-diablo.141231/