Generic-Giant-Spider
Guest
I got some design documents here from 1996 that went into great detail about the Jester class with a ton of features I was never able to add.
Any chance we could read some of these ideas?
takes out tracing paper
I got some design documents here from 1996 that went into great detail about the Jester class with a ton of features I was never able to add.
so these retarded npcs like Argosyre attack me, i kill them and then everyone is angry with me... none can be reasoned with even at 100 diplomacy. good AI bro
can't seem to find the discussion. i searched for argosyre.so these retarded npcs like Argosyre attack me, i kill them and then everyone is angry with me... none can be reasoned with even at 100 diplomacy. good AI bro
I guess even the AI knows you're an asshole.
If you search for his name, you will find that this particular instance has been discussed and explained before.
can't seem to find the discussion. i searched for argosyre.
I'm approaching the semi-"point of no return" in Crowl, since the only area I have left in the beginning of the game is Samhain. Question:
If I choose to kill Argosyre (yes I spoiled it, though it was obvious he was a sketchy dude anyway), I understand the whole town basically turns on me except the innkeeper whose asks you to save her sister--is it possible to restore relations back to friendly/neutral with the remaining townspeople? Do they restore on their own or do I have to scatter gold coins amongst the peasantry?
Give it some time and the animosity will fade - except for a few specially marked NPCs who never forgive.
Did Cleve himself write something about this?
This is what Cleve had to say on the matter
Do you think it is pretentious to say that Village of Crowl is based on real life? People always seem to have some horrible compromise they are willing to accept but it is forbidden to talk about because if they thought about it some more they'd realize they should not accept it. How much honest talk do you think the public could handle about the drones they pay for in the middle east floating around over remote areas killing unarmed women and children all day? Is it really any worse than feeding the occasional tourist to a demon to keep him belowground like they do in Crowl? I actually thought that the Village of Crowl is the least fantastic part of Grimoire for this reason. Technically, the only troublemakers in Crowl are the Heralds, who interfere with the natural order of things there.
The Vanguard is there to locate the "Owl Artifact" and they simply try to fit in with the locals. If the locals have had this custom of placating the demon for centuries then they do not think it is their business to interfere as long as the locals cooperate with them. If they cared about the Village they would probably start by taking the fire breathing bugs and singing murder hobos off the streets.
GandGolf
I read your post expressing concern about the negative reception that happens in Crowl at a certain point.
It's not that big a deal in terms of anything that needs to be changed. We're talking about a handful of characters, and at least one who stays friendly. The NPC interactions have a built in mechanic to negotiate, bribe and talk down anyone from a hostile disposition. Furthermore, by the time players reach this point, you will be almost finished with Crowl anyway. Of course, you can always return to Crowl, Grimoire being an open world and all. They say time has a way of healing emotional wounds.
As far as this in context of the story:
While Argosyre was a charlatan, and evil priest who sucked the life out of Crowl, he pretended to be a caretaker. The villagers are ignorant of the conspiracy with the Horror. So when they first learn about his death, naturally the NPCs are upset. Again, it's nothing that can't be remedied in game.
No, there should be an ability to tell everybody what he'd told me! I can't even tell the inn owner about his role in the disappearance of her sister.
They all act like I slaughtered a peaceful NPC, not defended myself from a raving lunatic. And I can't even explain myself!
You can. See that "negotiate" button and "diplomacy" skill? That's how you explain yourself.
Raghilda didn't care about Argosyre btw, and Trimestes was only mildly in the red. Only Gorlo, Krone and Smithers are really mad, and Gorlo can simply be bribed into neutrality. The other two, however, are still mad and can't be negotiated below red-5 despite already having green-10 from bribing. Probably needs better diplomacy skill.
ok, so they're all in on it, even raghilda...can't seem to find the discussion. i searched for argosyre.
If you search for it not just in this thread, you will find:
I'm approaching the semi-"point of no return" in Crowl, since the only area I have left in the beginning of the game is Samhain. Question:
If I choose to kill Argosyre (yes I spoiled it, though it was obvious he was a sketchy dude anyway), I understand the whole town basically turns on me except the innkeeper whose asks you to save her sister--is it possible to restore relations back to friendly/neutral with the remaining townspeople? Do they restore on their own or do I have to scatter gold coins amongst the peasantry?
Give it some time and the animosity will fade - except for a few specially marked NPCs who never forgive.Did Cleve himself write something about this?
This is what Cleve had to say on the matter
Do you think it is pretentious to say that Village of Crowl is based on real life? People always seem to have some horrible compromise they are willing to accept but it is forbidden to talk about because if they thought about it some more they'd realize they should not accept it. How much honest talk do you think the public could handle about the drones they pay for in the middle east floating around over remote areas killing unarmed women and children all day? Is it really any worse than feeding the occasional tourist to a demon to keep him belowground like they do in Crowl? I actually thought that the Village of Crowl is the least fantastic part of Grimoire for this reason. Technically, the only troublemakers in Crowl are the Heralds, who interfere with the natural order of things there.
The Vanguard is there to locate the "Owl Artifact" and they simply try to fit in with the locals. If the locals have had this custom of placating the demon for centuries then they do not think it is their business to interfere as long as the locals cooperate with them. If they cared about the Village they would probably start by taking the fire breathing bugs and singing murder hobos off the streets.
GandGolf
I read your post expressing concern about the negative reception that happens in Crowl at a certain point.
It's not that big a deal in terms of anything that needs to be changed. We're talking about a handful of characters, and at least one who stays friendly. The NPC interactions have a built in mechanic to negotiate, bribe and talk down anyone from a hostile disposition. Furthermore, by the time players reach this point, you will be almost finished with Crowl anyway. Of course, you can always return to Crowl, Grimoire being an open world and all. They say time has a way of healing emotional wounds.
As far as this in context of the story:
While Argosyre was a charlatan, and evil priest who sucked the life out of Crowl, he pretended to be a caretaker. The villagers are ignorant of the conspiracy with the Horror. So when they first learn about his death, naturally the NPCs are upset. Again, it's nothing that can't be remedied in game.
No, there should be an ability to tell everybody what he'd told me! I can't even tell the inn owner about his role in the disappearance of her sister.
They all act like I slaughtered a peaceful NPC, not defended myself from a raving lunatic. And I can't even explain myself!
You can. See that "negotiate" button and "diplomacy" skill? That's how you explain yourself.
Raghilda didn't care about Argosyre btw, and Trimestes was only mildly in the red. Only Gorlo, Krone and Smithers are really mad, and Gorlo can simply be bribed into neutrality. The other two, however, are still mad and can't be negotiated below red-5 despite already having green-10 from bribing. Probably needs better diplomacy skill.
i was able to bribe the dwarf merchant in crowl into liking me again, but if there is no other way of explainig to him that i was attacked and argosyre made human sacrifices to some demon, the whole interaction with npcs is kinda poor.
not quite.i was able to bribe the dwarf merchant in crowl into liking me again, but if there is no other way of explainig to him that i was attacked and argosyre made human sacrifices to some demon, the whole interaction with npcs is kinda poor.
Imagine, people believing a lifelong priest of their parish over a bunch of murderhobos who came out of nowhere and accused him of demon worship. Unfathomable.
Literally just walk out.Has the bug with the tabernacle of music ever been fixed?
Fucking what. I finished this game. I have more than 300 hours in it. All bugs, sans a small txt with the abnormal ACME vending machines, that I have found I told to Cleve and they were fixed.Has the bug with the tabernacle of music ever been fixed?
You can finish Grimoire without any class changing, but it somewhat helps. I started my game in the release version, gone through several patches and finished it in 2.X-something. Not only game worked with my old saves (thanks, Cleve, I really understand how hard that sort of compability is), it properly re-calculated needed XP for the next level when I hit it.How many times in a playthrough do you typically change classes?
For fuck's sake, Reapa, that wiki was made for the fucking release version, when even crafting was useless and half-implemented and you had a very limited inventory space. Man, I just took a plain old standard party.and this is from the wiki, assuming it's copied from the manual:
I was always curious of this. So you can 100% beat the game in the same class as you started? Are there any drawbacks that I'm not aware of?You can finish Grimoire without any class changing, but it somewhat helps.
Yep, these alien catchers were a pain in the ass, but I beat them and mapped everything.I was always curious of this. So you can 100% beat the game in the same class as you started?
Dunno, my party was surely subpar, I could make it a lot stronger with some save/loading and the proper party creation, but it was doable and very fun walkthrough. Will play again some time for sure. After all, I replay, for example, Wiz7 every 5-7 years.Are there any drawbacks that I'm not aware of?
After all, I replay, for example, Wiz7 every 5-7 years.
Yep, I love Wiz7 to bits. It has so perfect balance of combat, exploration, story, atmosphere and the purple prose that is just feels right. Indeed, truly magical game. I always can close my eyes and recall the haunting sound of wind passing through the Nyctalinth's empty streets or just a feel of accomplisment when you find a hidden chest or a new area.There is something magical about Wizardry 7 that is hard to describe.
BTW, stealth and music are rising now, it was just a growing pains. Can't remember about throwing.Fowyr said:New players? Fuck new players. Reasoning like yours gave us Fallout 3 and other abominations. I was sold when I held game in my grasp and saw that it's Wizardry. It's buggy, sometimes cumbersome, but fucking brilliant Wizardry. Fuck you all with your balance, fuck your "muh UI", fuck your "muh Armorplate is not visible in the charsheet"! Nothing of it matters! Because it's fucking Wizardry. It's the only game that could scratch my Wizardry 6/7 itch since fucking Wizardry 7!
My sage can't raise Music even for +1 in new version. Is it bad? Yes, it's bad, but it's a fucking Wizardry.
I can't raise throwing by flinging 50 daggers in general direction of bugs and moths? Fuck throwing. Most of throwable things are broken anyway. And it's a fucking Wizardry.
Stealth is not raising? Ok, but I already have two characters with Stealth 100 from version 1.0
Nothing fucking matters. Nothing. Because this mad megalomaniac Cleve brought the old magic back. He made fucking Wizardry!
Just look at exploding insects. Look at magic screen. Look at dungeons. Read purple prose. Disarm trap on the chest. Solve puzzle.
Yea, it's Wizardry. And I'm happy.
Most of the loot were just a throwing weapons or halberd or two. Similar to wiz6/wiz7, but even less amount of the combat loot. Treasure chests, on the other hand, are tightly packed.Ok, a quick question if i may.
Do enemies not drop loot?