Has there ever been a BIG open world RPG that was also QUALITY?

[Desiderius]

Jagged Alliance 2, divided into sectors but otherwise it has no barriers. Much more static compared to Space Rangers 2, has minimal amount of quests.

It has economy/management/time management. you need to deal with money and injury issues to progress.

So does an angry sun with Lilura’s face on it start swooping down on you if you take too much time?

 

[DeepOcean]

If you decide to concentrate content, you end up with a small size play space that feels like a playground, many games have overmaps to imply a huge region that actually is just an illusion to create the feeling of movement on the world. Making a truly open world game means alot of wasted space and copious amounts of copy paste, there is no other way, unless you use procedural content.

I'm curious about how a modern take at DaggerFall would fare these days.

 

[Desiderius]

If you decide to concentrate content, you end up with a small size play space that feels like a playground, many games have overmaps to imply a huge region that actually is just an illusion to create the feeling of movement on the world. Making a truly open world game means alot of wasted space and copious amounts of copy paste, there is no other way, unless you use procedural content.

I'm curious about how a modern take at DaggerFall would fare these days.

Crowdsource content, pay good editors.

 

[alyvain]

I'm curious about how a modern take at DaggerFall would fare these days.

No Man's Illiac Bay

 

[vonAchdorf]

Darklands? I thought that was decent if you want open world with memorable stuff.

 

[Twizman]

Dragon Warrior III.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Faery Tale Adventure II: Halls of the Dead from 1997 had to be rushed to completion due to the bankruptcy of its developer, The Dreamer's Guild, but nonetheless contains a sizable but not overly large Open World with varied environments.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

The only way to get a truly 'open world' game that isn't shit would be a combination of both procedurally generated content and hand-placed content mixed together. Too much procedural content is boring and uninteresting, too much hand-placed content requires heavy asset recycling and often repetitive designs.
Morrowind actually had the capability of generating cells on the fly but I don't think any gamebryo games have ever actually used that feature. Morrowind only used it for the ocean.

I'm curious about how a modern take at DaggerFall would fare these days.

No Man's Illiac Bay

More like Dwarf Fortress adventure mode.

 

[Zlaja]

Morrowind's loot is hardly "hand placed" any more than Skyrim's leveled loot is "hand placed"

Are you serious? There's plenty of hand placed loot in Morrowind. It's very different then Skyrim where everything is leveled.

Also, it's weird complaining about how boring Morrowind is after completing 150 quests in the game. The main thing Morrowind has going for it is it's setting and once you've seen every part of the map you're pretty much done and should move on (the main quest narrative is also pretty good). There's really no point in sticking around just to complete every single sidequest. Not even if you really like the game.

The only way to get a truly 'open world' game that isn't shit would be a combination of both procedurally generated content and hand-placed content mixed together

It can also still suck ass. Skyrim has both and it's still the most boring game ever. Endless generated sidequests for the plebs!

 

[Invictus]

Hell right of the bat I can name

Gothic
yup sorry but saying open world and not including Gothic is heresy; it is the very definition of an open world game regardless of your concept of it not beign “big enough”... every single location, dungeon and encounters allow you the freedom to play as you want to play the game, and if your skill with the game systems is good enough (or you cheat a bit) you can have access to some of the “gated” areas thanks to your ingenuity

Darklands
Along with Wizardry 7 it is my favorite RPG of all time with it sandbox open world where you decided how you proceed in the gameworld and ultimately your involvement in it’s fate
Want to concentrate on making money by buying and selling, killing robber barons, hunting witches etc you were free to do so if you could handle it and knew how to work the systems in your favor

wizardry 7
One of the most developed fantasy gameworld ever, with a wide open world with interesting civilizations and cultures and no real “set” path or hand holding on how to proceed. Brutally hard and unforgiving on some aspects but also very rich and rewarding
I especially love the “get better as you use” system for almost all skills

World of Xeen
Might and Magic games are virtually synonymous with exploration (in part because the npc were almost none existent and the combat a bit bland and straightforward) bit this game combined made one of the biggest open worlds ever which you were free to explore at your leisure jumping from Darkside to Xeen or sticking to the game’s narrative

I could name Daggerfall or make a stronger argument to defend New Vegas or Morrowind but that is pretty much it

Oh and btw the only great open world I can really name from the modern games that really managed to get the exploration, questing, memorable npc and dialogues would be Witcher 3... but given its itemized systems and scaled gameworld I found it enjoyable but ultimately unchallenging compared to a game like Gothic... which I tend to think is the perfect balance of gameworld, mechanics and even questing; it is admittedly a shorter gameworld compared to others but ultimately more focused and enjoyable than most so called open world games
I rather have an enjoyable, hand built 25 hour game than the current blotted 100+ monster that lose my interest before even the halfway point because of their lack of ultimately meaningful choices and depth

 

[Ludwig von Eisenthal]

I'd say Ultima VII has the perfect balance between a massive open world and meaningful exploration. There is just so much secret stuff to discover in this world, so many minute details and things to do and find.
The only games that come close to that perfection for me are the first two Gothics. Their worlds were not as big as in Ultima VII but they were very believable and filled with interesting content and beautiful places.

I really have to look at Tamriel Rebuilt, I only played the original vanilla Morrowind back in 2002 (but I thoroughly loved it). TR sounds marvelous.
And looking at these beautiful screenshots from Faery Tale Adventure II I just have to give that another try. Last time I tried it I failed because of its somewhat obscure controls. I really like the clean pixelart it has though.

 

[Piotrovitz]

The only games that come close to that perfection for me are the first two Gothics. Their worlds were not as big as in Ultima VII but they were very believable and filled with interesting content and beautiful places.

Kinda agree on the G2, though good open worlds would include at least few major settlements, and beside small as shit Khorinis, you basically have no other towns.

G1 is not only is smaller, but the landscape is kinda crude, bland and desolated - couple of trees, a hill here and there, etc., all in the same bland colors.

IMO FNV does good job in open world explorations - lots of settlements, random caves you can find some hand placed cool shit (i.e ratslayer), survivalists shacks, abandoned vaults that each has it's own history and distinct feel. Overall the world map is not that big, but it's the quality over quantity, man.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Faery Tale Adventure II: Halls of the Dead from 1997 had to be rushed to completion due to the bankruptcy of its developer, The Dreamer's Guild, but nonetheless contains a sizable but not overly large Open World with varied environments.

The game is pretty, i give you that but it's a real pain to play, i tried but gave up after a couple of random encounters outside the village.

 

[Cat Dude]

Open world rpg is like Boruto anime; so much filler and lacks direction.

 

[Piotrovitz]

The game is pretty, i give you that but it's a real pain to play, i tried but gave up after a couple of random encounters outside the village.

Is it buggy/has outdated UI/shitty gameplay?

Those screenshots look beautiful.

 

[Ludwig von Eisenthal]

The game is pretty, i give you that but it's a real pain to play, i tried but gave up after a couple of random encounters outside the village.

Is it buggy/has outdated UI/shitty gameplay?

Those screenshots look beautiful.

Controls are terrible, at least that was my problem with the game.

 

[Darth Canoli]

I played it last year and not for long so it's not quite fresh in my mind, i think it's a mix of shitty UI & gameplay.

 

[Piotrovitz]

 

[somewhatgiggly]

Faery Tale Adventure II: Halls of the Dead from 1997 had to be rushed to completion due to the bankruptcy of its developer, The Dreamer's Guild, but nonetheless contains a sizable but not overly large Open World with varied environments.

AUGH FUCK

this fucking art style gets me hot

I dunno what it is. Ultima sort of had it too. (Oh it's on Abandonia).

 

[Open Path]

Originally I wanted to write yet another big rant on why Morrowind is one of the most overrated RPGs of all time.

As usual, your butthurt/attention whore thread is extremely unfocused, abuse of fake data and criticise Morrowind just for the wrong reasons.

Morrowind hasn't "bad quality" world, in fact is just the opposite: Morrowind worldbuilding, art design, item/world object diversity, uniqueness, interactivity, internal consistency, credibility, originality, regional diversity, exploration-specific design, atttention to detail, etc, are among the best examples in any game.

Other few games are better in encounter or interior design, uniqueness or content diversity "average" -but for sure, not raw amount-, world/actors/enemy reactivity and some other contexts but still not a single game in crpg history has a world that can compete against Morrowind in a general perspective. Neither in quantity nor "quality".

To answer only some of your fallacies:

- New Vegas world is actually much bigger than Morrowind's, but emptier also, with 3, 4 or even 10 times in some cases less content than Morrowind: Less settlements, interiors, friendly o enemy npcs, creature types/placements, regional diversity, factions, architecture variation, unique items, weapons, armors and other inventory items diversity to buy or find in loot, etc, and of course less mechanics and tools also to interact with that world. Despite the difference in content density by wich Morrowind includes many more "irrelevant" locations, enemies and loot, MW gameworld includes much, much more diversity and uniqueness than New Vegas -and most games-, much more subtleness, attention to detail and internal consistence. More quality indeed.

- The difference in content density or the abundance of irrelevant or secondary locations in MW is explained in first place by an obvious factor that you ignored: Morrowind and New Vegas are built at very different scales in very different contexts. The New Vegas World is a barely scaled real world representation of a small desert area -1 of 17 Nevada counties- in post-apocalyptic times, while Morrowind is a extremely scaled representation, 1:30000 or 1:50000 or more of an huge country-island with an old History and recent colonization boom, hundreds of times bigger and more densely populated than NV context.

- This high density, "the number problem" and the re-use of some features that was already partially mentioned make some players lose the perception of true diversity, level of detail and uniqueness in Morrowind. There are dozens of "irrelevant" eggmines or minor tombs with dozens of the same re-used details or hundreds of barrels and boxes with the same scrap loot, but that's a poor representation of Morrowind content. There are dozens of interiors typologies, hundreds of weapons, scrolls, armor parts or books, thousands of different enemies -counting unique ones-, or to cite to examples of stuff that make even "irrelevant places" truly unique, there are over 500 lightsources, 28 variants of Hlaalu style houses, over 100 dunmer banners, etc. There are interior assets re-used many times and this is even more noticeable for some exterior statics -that "sea menhir" the most common object in the game...- but there are also hundreds of models used only a couple of times or even only one, including the most common places as for example some rare cave walls, tomb parts or even several unique exterior rocks.

- Not every location in Morrowind is linked with quests, but that's great. Subordinate every location to "narrative" or "questing" is a shitty design that reduce player agency, kills exploration and make gameworlds a railroaded experience in which all is built around the pre-fixed narrative designed by developers. Freedom and options > "Narrative".

- Morrowind "loot" is not simply the scrap that you obsessively collect from shitty barrels, there are thousands of handplaced items both inside and outside containers + far more diversity in "generic" items than any other game + more unique items than most games. How many games, open world or not has Morrowind inventory/item diversity?

-Morrowind dialogue is not limited to "wikipedia" lines. There are hundreds of natural, decently written or even good lines, but usual retards continue to link Morrowind dialogue with the 5-6 generic topics instead the good parts.

-Morrowind isn't designed to complete more than 60-80 faction quests -that's 2-3 factions max- with the same character build. There are mechanical limitations in rank promotion/quest giving that make impossible to complete more than those few factions without obsessively abusing the mechanics, extreme grinding and other mmoish decadent vices as you need to level up the most irrelevant skills for your character to access to many quests. There are world consistence and "roleplay" reasons also, which not everyone here care about, but only the mechanic ones are enough to discourage a sane player to "complete more than 150 quests" with the same character.

- The "truly unique" dungeons -unique in your secondary, figurative sense of memorable- are many, many more than 5-6. There are more than 50 dungeons in Morrowind with really unusual layouts or unique items, enemies or npcs. However even in the most generic examples, as many tombs and caves, the items or enemies diversity is much bigger than most games. Usual retards complaint about how they found the same corridors, ash pits and urn types in all 45 tombs they visited, but curiously forget about the different 25 different generic monsters, 100 unique enemies, 300 different generic items and 50 unique ones in those tombs. They forget also about the misterious corpse, the deep pit layout, the underwater hall, the three levels with holes, the "rest of an old battle", the failed expedition, the totally different walls or objects, the cross references to other places, etc that individualize many of those tombs.

Butthurt prejudices are blinding you.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

I'd rather have a choice between 4 mediocre areas/dungeons/quests/etc. than be forced into 1 good one sometimes. It's a tradeoff. If you don't value that freedom aspect at all, you're playing the wrong genre.

You say as if you were not gonna do all 4 mediocre dungeons/quests and all that choice was just to chose the order of doing them, which in reality would be about guessing which dungeon is the easiest one and going there first. Be more honest with yourself.

Quality rules.

 

[Drowed]

Faery Tale Adventure II: Halls of the Dead from 1997 had to be rushed to completion due to the bankruptcy of its developer, The Dreamer's Guild, but nonetheless contains a sizable but not overly large Open World with varied environments.

Holy shit, this game looks fucking great. How come I never heard of it? It's sad to know it was rushed, can you tell how much that affected the end result? Is the game still fun, is it worth playing? Because it looks amazing. Such a pity!


EDIT:

Controls are terrible, at least that was my problem with the game.

I played it last year and not for long so it's not quite fresh in my mind, i think it's a mix of shitty UI & gameplay.

 

[JarlFrank]

Making a truly open world game means alot of wasted space and copious amounts of copy paste, there is no other way, unless you use procedural content.

Procedural content is literally automated copypaste on the fly.

 

[Sigourn]

Are you serious? There's plenty of hand placed loot in Morrowind. It's very different then Skyrim where everything is leveled.

I am serious. Don't make the mistake that just because you can find an OP artifact on the very first ancestral tomb you are likely to come across (Mentor's Ring in Samarys Ancestral Tomb) most locations are like it. In fact, they aren't. What I often do after clearing a given eggmine/cave/ancestral tomb/daedric ruin is to look up its article on UESP.

It's actually very disappointing. What's more, many chests have leveled loot: save before opening, open them, and if you reload you will find the contents are different, ranging anywhere from "common pants" to an amulet worth 250 gold. This is the Morrowind experience in a nutshell. I would know, I have over 300 hours (my estimate is at least double than that) into the game, so I have a very good idea of how often do I come across unique loot and not just the same leveled chests and containers.

Also, it's weird complaining about how boring Morrowind is after completing 150 quests in the game. The main thing Morrowind has going for it is it's setting and once you've seen every part of the map you're pretty much done and should move on (the main quest narrative is also pretty good). There's really no point in sticking around just to complete every single sidequest. Not even if you really like the game.

I do agree that even the most tasty meal can make you sick after eating it every day of the week. But the problem with Morrowind is that for every tasty meal you get, you five shitty ones. That's the big problem. This is not me saying "I'm tired of Morrowind", this is me saying "I'm tired of being fed shitty content in Morrowind". It's a big difference.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Making a truly open world game means alot of wasted space and copious amounts of copy paste, there is no other way, unless you use procedural content.

Procedural content is literally automated copypaste on the fly.

Procedural content is worse than just copy pasted content. A human doing boring copy pasting job may get a genuinely good idea during a work and use it to make a copy paste content a little more enjoyable. Artificial intelligence can't do that.