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Hearts of Iron IV - The Ultimate WWII Strategy Game

Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,028
This is HoI4's way of actually simulating things such as making different variants and different models that share the same chassis. Sure, if you're going to switch between models (from Panzer to Panther, for example) then the loss of efficiency is realistic as production lines have to switch to new components.

It's your job to calculate whether you want more slightly modernized tanks or less bleeding edge tanks that will outperform the older ones. You can only "get fucked" by this system if you don't understand it or want to have cake and eat it too.

Maybe actually read and understand what I've posted before vomiting this shit.
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
4,614
Maybe actually read and understand what I've posted before vomiting this shit.
You're the one talking shit about "producing just two division types (infantry and armor) and two plane types (interceptor and CAS)". Newsflash: marines are popular unit to produce for certain nations. You want anti-air units if you can't field too many planes (as minor powers) or late in the game. Infantry and armor? Try infantry and ARTILLERY. Or infantry, artillery and heavy armor. I am not exactly up-to-date on this, but even so it is telling how dumb your argument is when even I can point out how detached from reality your claims (about not using half of the in-game units) are.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Maybe actually read and understand what I've posted before vomiting this shit.
You're the one talking shit about "producing just two division types (infantry and armor) and two plane types (interceptor and CAS)". Newsflash: marines are popular unit to produce for certain nations. You want anti-air units if you can't field too many planes (as minor powers) or late in the game. Infantry and armor? Try infantry and ARTILLERY. Or infantry, artillery and heavy armor. I am not exactly up-to-date on this, but even so it is telling how dumb your argument is when even I can point out how detached from reality your claims (about not using half of the in-game units) are.

Obviously you include artillery and AA in your divisions. Try actually playing the game and trying to understand it?

No one uses marines or special forces in general because its a waste of research time to focus on specialization that affects 0.1% of your army rather than rush your main infantry/armor/artillery/plane techs harder, which is a symptom of both the awful research and awful production systems.
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
4,614
Obviously you include artillery and AA in your divisions. Try actually playing the game and trying to understand it?
:nocountryforshitposters:

This is supposed to be a strategy game. I want to prepare marines for naval invasions and river crossings, heavy armor to bust forts, mountaineers for bad terrain, light tanks and mediums to exploit gaps, strats to bomb logistics, tacs/CAS to bomb troops, and engineers/AT to hold the line against enemy tanks. Instead in HoI4 you produce just two division types (infantry and armor) and two plane types (interceptor and CAS) and play like an 80 IQ retard who just butts his head into everything with more units to win.
It's not my fault that you failed to mention artillery and anti-air when talking about producing divisions, while whining about almost literally every other unit in the game.

No one uses marines or special forces in general because [...]
OK. I am done with you trying to sell your own bullshit as truth. You were trying to pull that with multiplayer being allegedly the reason for HoI4's popularity and taking numbers for the popularity of modding out of your ass before and I let that slide, but I am not going to give you a free pass this time.

There is a BIG difference between "no one uses" and something not being THE most popular type of unit. Yes, infantry will be obviously the most popular (and have 5,048 entries) but to say that "no one uses marines in general" when they have 1,382 entries suggests you have no idea what you're talking about. Again. Sure, marines are not "Space Marines" anymore (as they were at some point), but for a naval nations they remain important units to use for naval invasions and one of constant topics in discussions about division compositions.
 

Malakal

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
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Messages
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Maybe actually read and understand what I've posted before vomiting this shit.
You're the one talking shit about "producing just two division types (infantry and armor) and two plane types (interceptor and CAS)". Newsflash: marines are popular unit to produce for certain nations. You want anti-air units if you can't field too many planes (as minor powers) or late in the game. Infantry and armor? Try infantry and ARTILLERY. Or infantry, artillery and heavy armor. I am not exactly up-to-date on this, but even so it is telling how dumb your argument is when even I can point out how detached from reality your claims (about not using half of the in-game units) are.

Obviously you include artillery and AA in your divisions. Try actually playing the game and trying to understand it?

No one uses marines or special forces in general because its a waste of research time to focus on specialization that affects 0.1% of your army rather than rush your main infantry/armor/artillery/plane techs harder, which is a symptom of both the awful research and awful production systems.

Obviously not because if you intend to have air superiority you do not need AA in your divisions. Same if you don't expect to fight tanks you don't need AT and definitely not in every single division.

EVERYONE in HoI4 uses marines because they are extremely useful for most nations, either to island hop or to Sealion or to crack fortress Europe or just because of river crossing and swamp bonuses. Mountaineers are bit more niche but definitely useful in many areas. Paratroopers overall are great.

Something tells me you have not played HoI4 in SP or MP. In MP especially having an edge over your opponent by either specialized troops or some gimmick (like super high armor that enemy can't pierce) is a great way to win.
 
Joined
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Messages
14,028
It's not my fault that you failed to mention artillery and anti-air when talking about producing divisions, while whining about almost literally every other unit in the game.
An infantry division with AA and Artillery is an infantry division. Not my fault you're autistic.

You were trying to pull that with multiplayer being allegedly the reason for HoI4's popularity and taking numbers for the popularity of modding out of your ass
It's the truth. Don't know why you have your panties in a twist over it.

There is a BIG difference between "no one uses" and something not being THE most popular type of unit.
k, fine. "no one competent uses". Happy now?

Obviously not because if you intend to have air superiority you do not need AA in your divisions. Same if you don't expect to fight tanks you don't need AT and definitely not in every single division.
I'm assuming we're talking about MP vs. a competent opponent where you never can just "intend to have air superiority". If you do then you've pretty much won. AT is indeed pretty fucking useless in hoi4 (another poor balancing decision).

EVERYONE in HoI4 uses marines because they are extremely useful for most nations, either to island hop or to Sealion or to crack fortress Europe or just because of river crossing and swamp bonuses. Mountaineers are bit more niche but definitely useful in many areas. Paratroopers overall are great.
Marines are a waste of time to produce since you can simply land and attack from land which is more effective. You can't even produce enough of them in the first place to mount a decent invasion unless you research advanced techs that you don't want to research Mountaineers are... incredibly niche. Paratroopers are useless unless you have air dominance in which case you've already won (granted they have like 3 separate exploits attached to them but any MP game will kick you for using them).
 

None

Scholar
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
1,383
You can't fucking order planes to bomb units unless they are in combat. You can't tell planes not to bomb certain units.
This is my main gripe with the game, the level of abstraction is all over the place and seems rather arbitrary. Combat is at the division level in provinces, but you're actually fighting over states. Air wings are composed of individual planes capable of bombing units at the province level (if in combat...), but all orders are given at the regional level. Individual pieces of equipment are produced by assigning individual factories and consume individual resources, but we aren't allowed to trade for resources in units lower than 8. The production side of the game is the most granular it has ever been in the series, but we aren't allowed to stockpile resources other than fuel? No money either?

As I said, the game really is all over the place and what you can and can't do seems entirely arbitrary at times, which is why I think the design/removal of certain things was done to avoid having to code or script the AI for it.
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
4,614
It's the truth. Don't know why you have your panties in a twist over it.
It's not. It's bullshit. In both cases. You were flat out wrong when it came to the multiplayer and gave wrong numbers in the case of modding. Then you tried to save face by saying "but surely it came up from 64% to 95% in three years!". Not that it really mattered for the argument itself, but it showed what kind of man you are. And yes, I do detest people like you. The fact you're still trying to maintain your other obvious blunders means we're done here. A difference of opinion is understandable, but shamelessly trying to sound like you are right when you're clearly proven wrong - many times over - is flat out retarded and makes any discussion with you pointless.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,028
It's the truth. Don't know why you have your panties in a twist over it.
It's not. It's bullshit. In both cases. You were flat out wrong when it came to the multiplayer and gave wrong numbers in the case of modding. Then you tried to save face by saying "but surely it came up from 64% to 95% in three years!". Not that it really mattered for the argument itself, but it showed what kind of man you are. And yes, I do detest people like you. The fact you're still trying to maintain your other obvious blunders means we're done here. A difference of opinion is understandable, but shamelessly trying to sound like you are right when you're clearly proven wrong - many times over - is flat out retarded and makes any discussion with you pointless.
Is English your second language or something? Obviously no one has fucking numbers on the exact % of people that play with mods or multiplayer. Even Paradox's numbers are an inaccurate estimate. This is implied in the conversation and any numbers given are a figure of speech.
 

None

Scholar
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
1,383
Let us all be fair here, the best Hearts of Iron is Darkest Hour.
Which is coincidentally the only one (arguably) not made by Paradox. I can guarantee that no other Paradox title will ever be used for wargames at military colleges in the same way DH was used. And development is still ongoing, even after all these years!
 

Malakal

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
10,227
Location
Poland
Let us all be fair here, the best Hearts of Iron is Darkest Hour.
Which is coincidentally the only one (arguably) not made by Paradox. I can guarantee that no other Paradox title will ever be used for wargames at military colleges in the same way DH was used. And development is still ongoing, even after all these years!
Wait, they use DH for wargames at military colleges? Awesome.

I would seriously doubt that, it cant be used for tactical level games and lack of supply system eliminates it for strategic level...
 

None

Scholar
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
1,383
Let us all be fair here, the best Hearts of Iron is Darkest Hour.
Which is coincidentally the only one (arguably) not made by Paradox. I can guarantee that no other Paradox title will ever be used for wargames at military colleges in the same way DH was used. And development is still ongoing, even after all these years!
Wait, they use DH for wargames at military colleges? Awesome.

I would seriously doubt that, it cant be used for tactical level games and lack of supply system eliminates it for strategic level...
It was done in 2014. Same guy who ran it is now the director of wargaming at the college. There was a full AAR but unfortunately a lot of the links are dead. A few images are preserved in other articles.
 

Mark.L.Joy

Prophet
Joined
Sep 11, 2016
Messages
1,265
Interactive map of ww2 sunken ships, an impressive work of autism.
https://mapsterman.maps.arcgis.com/apps/dashboards/fe88b5e18c6443c7afaf6e32f8432687
PwobQFs.png
 

CthuluIsSpy

Arcane
Joined
Dec 26, 2014
Messages
7,853
Location
On the internet, writing shit posts.
I played some HOI4 because of the free week thing, and I think the new patch broke it.
I played a bit of it before the patch dropped and combat and logistics didn't seem too bad, but now it's just unbearable.
You hemorrhage so many supplies now that if you start as Italy you're basically fucked because it takes so long to recover and of course Paradox decides to give you a bunch of missions like "pull 750k soldiers out of your arse" or "make Ethopia compliant. Oh, what's that, the Focus that increases compliance doesn't work and your idiot soldiers threw all of their rifles away so you have to make more? Lol, sucks to be you" or "build 750 planes. Oh, you're still building rifles because of our shitty upkeep mechanic? Lol"

Combat is shit. Combat width doesn't matter. The number of units you have doesn't matter. The divisions you have doesn't matter. Why? Because defense bonuses are so fucking high that most battles become a stalemate and the progress meter goes from 99 to 50 then to 99 again and then you lose.
 

Nirvash

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 20, 2017
Messages
1,055
Ethopia is a broken mess, you MUST toss in ALL the italian army and end it before 60 days, or you better just bail out from africa. (and then sack mussolini)

Also funny how the new air builder can shit "cheap wood planes" going mach 1.
 

CthuluIsSpy

Arcane
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On the internet, writing shit posts.
Yeah, it feels a lot more difficult now. Apparently it's more annoying with the actual DLC because then you can't actually finish the war due to the Emperor fucking off to England.
I did manage to get a good thing going now with Italy First Italy. I failed most of the missions because they were bullshit but I got a decent army going and I grabbed most of the Balkans and Greece. But now I'm worried about expanding because world tension is at 100% and if I try to annex Switzerland or Turkey the gits might call in the Allies to help. As if they didn't have their hands full with the axis already.

The Spanish Civil War is also a bit of a clusterfuck, with the Soviets and Republicans just pulling divisions out of their arses while the Fascists are limited to 3 volunteers each. You basically have to micro the entire war and if you get involved in other war you can kiss Nationalist Spain goodbye because they can't do shit on their own.
I suspect Paradox might be a little biased. Covering Hitler's face in shadow out of some misguided sense of censorship (and making him look more ominous in the process, ironically) as if we don't know what the silly moustache man looks like doesn't help matters.
 
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CthuluIsSpy

Arcane
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Dec 26, 2014
Messages
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On the internet, writing shit posts.
Covering Hitler's face in shadow out of some misguided sense of censorship (and making him look more ominous in the process, ironically)
They're foreshadowing his return for the sequel

OF course, he will be stronger than ever, wielding ancient Thulean magicks and German Super Science
Not gonna lie, a Weird World 2 DLC for HoI4 would be pretty awesome.
So of course Paradox aren't going to do it, as they are allergic to fun.
 

CthuluIsSpy

Arcane
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Dec 26, 2014
Messages
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On the internet, writing shit posts.
So I discovered that there is in fact a special forces part of the Infantry tech tree that was hidden because there's a huge black gap between the transport section and the Special Forces section.
I thought it just ended at transport. So for 25 hours of gameplay I didn't know you can get marines, paratroopers and upgrade your mountaineers.
Well done Paradox, 10/10 UI design.


59FC0028B3624568E0B8FF97726FEAB37375F0EF



Also, despite unlocking Camelry divisions for Italy, you cannot recruit camelry battalions.
Which means no divisions of camels supported by tanks and rockets.
My disappointment is immeasurable, and my day is ruined.
 
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CthuluIsSpy

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So I was minding my own business, building up my army to do a sneaky attack on the allies while they're distracted with the axis. I even started a civil war in Mexico just to distract the Americans.
Then the Germans attacked me.
So now Fascist Italy, Hungary, Macedonia, Italian Yougoslavia, Italian Serbia and Junta Mexico are helping the allies and the USSR fight Germany, Mexico (who are still democratic), Slovakia and Fascist Romania.

I think I get why people like this game, that's fucking hilarious.
 
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Nirvash

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 20, 2017
Messages
1,055
So I was minding my own business, building up my army to do a sneaky attack on the allies while they're distracted with the axis. I even started a civil war in Mexico just to distract the Americans.
Then the Germans attacked me.
So now Fascist Italy, Hungary, Macedonia, Italian Yougoslavia, Italian Serbia and Junta Mexico are helping the allies and the USSR fight Germany, Mexico (who are still democratic), Slovakia and Fascist Romania.

I think I get why people like this game, that's fucking hilarious.
They attacked you or your yugo puppet? Nazi germany path got a late conquer yugo goal.
 

CthuluIsSpy

Arcane
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Messages
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Location
On the internet, writing shit posts.
So I was minding my own business, building up my army to do a sneaky attack on the allies while they're distracted with the axis. I even started a civil war in Mexico just to distract the Americans.
Then the Germans attacked me.
So now Fascist Italy, Hungary, Macedonia, Italian Yougoslavia, Italian Serbia and Junta Mexico are helping the allies and the USSR fight Germany, Mexico (who are still democratic), Slovakia and Fascist Romania.

I think I get why people like this game, that's fucking hilarious.
They attacked you or your yugo puppet? Nazi germany path got a late conquer yugo goal.
Yougo puppet. That would explain it then.
So if you don't have a puppet they won't attack? Or will they just have a claim casus belli?

That basically means that war between Italy and Germany is inevitable then, because taking Yougoslavia is part of Italy's focus tree and is before the Iron Pact focus.
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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There is a BIG difference between "no one uses" and something not being THE most popular type of unit. Yes, infantry will be obviously the most popular (and have 5,048 entries) but to say that "no one uses marines in general" when they have 1,382 entries suggests you have no idea what you're talking about. Again. Sure, marines are not "Space Marines" anymore (as they were at some point), but for a naval nations they remain important units to use for naval invasions and one of constant topics in discussions about division compositions.

I have a question to ask, kind of related to this. With he last patches, is the game at a state where there is no longer clear minmaxing of divisions in terms of types and number of brigades? I remember taking the "The Revolution Triumphant" achievement (Puppet Germany as USSR) and it was with some pretty simple templates.

Now I've bought "No Step Back" when it was discounted around the release of the new expansion, and I wonder if the division composition part of the game would be more interesting.
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
4,614
I have a question to ask, kind of related to this. With he last patches, is the game at a state where there is no longer clear minmaxing of divisions in terms of types and number of brigades? I remember taking the "The Revolution Triumphant" achievement (Puppet Germany as USSR) and it was with some pretty simple templates.

Now I've bought "No Step Back" when it was discounted around the release of the new expansion, and I wonder if the division composition part of the game would be more interesting.
In all honesty I am not the best person to ask, as I stopped playing HoI4 after a few DLCs, but I do know a guy who is a hardcore enthusiast of the game and he said that "No Step Back" DLC allows for more freedom in making your own division compositions as you're less limited by width.
 
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