Heroes of Might & Magic 7

[Zeriel]

HoMM 7 continue the shitty overdesigned art style of HoMM 6 (Lord Edgy makes me cry.), the grimdark story trailer and knowing how developers are these days, shitty WoW fantasy drivel pushed on your face on a heavily scripted campaign is pretty much confirmed. Predict will be better than HoMM 6 and compete with HoMM 5 for the best russian shovelware version of HoMM 3 after you buy Ubisoft's season pass.

Yeah, that's basically what I'm expecting. Some things a little worse than 5, some things a little better, graphics of course a lot better. Limbic basically knows what they are doing and seems to make good designs within the limitations of what Ubisoft dictates, so I'm expecting a not-totally-shit game, which is about the best you can hope for. Friendly reminder that Heroes 2 and 3 are products of their time and we're probably never going to feel the same way about a game again. When was the last time you were excited about a turn-based strategy game in the last decade? I can't remember, even the original Kings Bounty reboot which was great doesn't come close.

 

[hoverdog]

HoMM 7 continue the shitty overdesigned art style of HoMM 6 (Lord Edgy makes me cry.), the grimdark story trailer and knowing how developers are these days, shitty WoW fantasy drivel pushed on your face on a heavily scripted campaign is pretty much confirmed. Predict will be better than HoMM 6 and compete with HoMM 5 for the best russian shovelware version of HoMM 3 after you buy Ubisoft's season pass.

Yeah, that's basically what I'm expecting. Some things a little worse than 5, some things a little better, graphics of course a lot better. Limbic basically knows what they are doing and seems to make good designs within the limitations of what Ubisoft dictates, so I'm expecting a not-totally-shit game, which is about the best you can hope for. Friendly reminder that Heroes 2 and 3 are products of their time and we're probably never going to feel the same way about a game again. When was the last time you were excited about a turn-based strategy game in the last decade? I can't remember, even the original Kings Bounty reboot which was great doesn't come close.

I was excited for Elemental

 

[Zeriel]

HoMM 7 continue the shitty overdesigned art style of HoMM 6 (Lord Edgy makes me cry.), the grimdark story trailer and knowing how developers are these days, shitty WoW fantasy drivel pushed on your face on a heavily scripted campaign is pretty much confirmed. Predict will be better than HoMM 6 and compete with HoMM 5 for the best russian shovelware version of HoMM 3 after you buy Ubisoft's season pass.

Yeah, that's basically what I'm expecting. Some things a little worse than 5, some things a little better, graphics of course a lot better. Limbic basically knows what they are doing and seems to make good designs within the limitations of what Ubisoft dictates, so I'm expecting a not-totally-shit game, which is about the best you can hope for. Friendly reminder that Heroes 2 and 3 are products of their time and we're probably never going to feel the same way about a game again. When was the last time you were excited about a turn-based strategy game in the last decade? I can't remember, even the original Kings Bounty reboot which was great doesn't come close.

I was excited for Elemental

You poor, misguided fool. I hope you at least had the consolation of hard opiates.

 

[SCO]

Shadow magic was the last. Bought box immediately when first saw the back cover, unreviewed.

 

[Zeriel]

Yeah, that lines up with my belief that 3D pretty much destroyed the golden era of strategy gaming. I wonder why no middle-size studio is okay with doing 2D in this day and age, it can't be that expensive.

 

[DeepOcean]

I kinda lost hope of the HoMM series getting better than HoMM 3 since HoMM 5 was released. The whole heavy scripting on the campaign maps to tell that fantasy garbage that passed for story on HoMM 5 was terrible and a big cold shower to me. HoMM never had a decent story but at least on HoMM 1 to 3, it wasn't something intrusive and more of an excuse for the mission you were to play but on HoMM 5... if there was a game made better by skipping all the story bits, it was that game.

The only thing that saved HoMM 5 for me was the huge number of possibilities (especially after Tribes of the East) + skirmish mode with the scenarios and the random map generator. I have no hopes for greatness on HoMM 7, will just ignore the campaign that I have no doubt will stink hard as it did on HoMM 5 and play skirmish mode again, it will be just HoMM 5 with better graphics.

 

[Archibald]

TBH I'm surprised so many of you think so highly of those dumbed down sequels with laughable AI.

Appeal of the HoMM series (and mostly whole genre) has always been playing hotseat/lan with friends. All campaigns and scenarios were challenging not because AI was "good", but because it had unfair advantages (whole point behind difficulty setting in HoMM3 is to handicap yourself).

 

[Jaedar]

So I watched the beta stream (http://www.twitch.tv/ubisoft/v/5286022).

In all, the game seems ok. Skill wheel seems like it could be good, mages guild specializations, town screens look pretty good in motion.

I really only have 2 major concerns, both related to combat. Primarily, it is the flanking. It seems like an absolutely terrible feature, since you can incredibly easily just circle around the enemy for each attack(hilariously, flanks used to have no retaliation. The fact that anyone on the dev team thought this might work is a rather scathing indictment). The other is movement speeds and map size. It seems that just about every unit will easily cross the entire battlefield in 2-3 turns.

 

[MilesBeyond]

TBH I'm surprised so many of you think so highly of those dumbed down sequels with laughable AI.

Implying that HoMM 3 and 2 (and 1) didn't have laughable AI? I mean, granted, 4 has maybe the worst AI of any TBS game that's not made by Firaxis, but it's not like its predecessors were pioneers in this area.


In any case, this:

Predict will be better than HoMM 6 and compete with HoMM 5 for the best russian shovelware version of HoMM 3 after you buy Ubisoft's season pass.

pretty much sums up my feelings at this point.


Also, the problem I had with Heroes 4 is that it always ended up feeling like a weird combination of HoMM and AoW. It was fun on the rare instance that I felt like playing both games at the same time, but more often than not it would just leave me with a craving for AoW.

 

[Archibald]

I think that HoMM4 AI is about as good (bad?) as in other parts, its just that in HoMM4 there are lots of new mechanics and possibilities that it fails to account for.

 

[Cadmus]

behead the Homam4 haters!

 

[MilesBeyond]

I think that HoMM4 AI is about as good (bad?) as in other parts, its just that in HoMM4 there are lots of new mechanics and possibilities that it fails to account for.

You're not entirely wrong, but there's definitely a sense in which even relative to past games H4 AI was a step down. The most egregious example is probably its bizarre tendency to sometimes ignore nearby mines for no discernible reason - even if these mines were unguarded.


EDIT: You know, I suppose I should probably clarify. I don't think H4 is a bad game. I just think that it's not a good enough game to be able to compete with many of the excellent other TBS games out there for my time (speaking of beheading, my favourite TBS game right now is probably AoW 3. I submit my heretic self for the judgment of the Codex. Seriously, though. I've been playing AoW non-stop for over fifteen years now, and the third installment is maybe my favourite)

 

[Naraya]

I don't think I'm able to enjoy any TBS with full 3D isometric view. The best mode for me is the beautiful, detailed, baroque 2D just like HoM&M 1-3 had. HoM&M 4 was also acceptable, graphic and gameplaywise. Everything after that just doesn't appeal to me personally, therefore I also won't be playing this installment of the franchise.

Which by the way is perfectly fine - I recently discovered WoG plus I'm having a blast with HoM&M 2 Gold again

 

[agris]

HoMM4 was fun and is very underrated. Its chief problem was that it had as many misguided ideas as it had really good ones.

HoMM5 was a great Heroes game that was unfortunately brought down by terrible campaign design and glitchy multiplayer.

HoMM6 was an abomination.

I am certain HoMM7 will be a worthy successor to HoMM6.

Isn't this the same dev team (or at least team leaders) who made MMX?

 

[Infinitron]

Isn't this the same dev team (or at least team leaders) who made MMX?

Yes. In case you're not aware, for Roxor, before PoE, there was MMX, if you catch my meaning.

 

[agris]

I see. Disappointment runs deep in that one.

 

[ClaviculaZ]

In fact, HOMM 5: TotE was very strong with regard to gameplay and replay value. I can understand the hate for it due to its art direction, questionable atmosphere and horrible campaign, but anyone who really values gameplay and strategic possibilites over those aspects has to give the game the credit it deserves.
HOMM 7 definitely appears to turn out better than the atrocious sixth exponent of the series, even though the general cheesiness seems to be included as well. I have my doubts that it will achieve the quality of 5.

 

[Archibald]

True that, HoMM5 with all its expansions is solid game.

 

[Zeriel]

Problem with Homm5 is that it is a pretty hard game to enjoy in singleplayer. Horribly slow AI turns if you don't install a certain mod, an AI that doesn't actually know how to play the game, et cetera. The fundamental mechanics are really good, but that's not quite enough to make it a functioning singleplayer game. MP it is ace, though.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

HoMM4 was fun and is very underrated. Its chief problem was that it had as many misguided ideas as it had really good ones.

Honestly, IV is overrated if anything. That game was a complete, utter abortion on release. Later on they might've fixed the gamestopping issues, but it never got an expansion like TotE that actually improved it.

TotE (always worth stressing, since vanilla V was actually rather bad) is a good game. All the "it's III, just with bad graphics!" claims aren't exactly true, but contrary to IV and VI, the new ideas that it introduced were mostly genuinely good. The only one I really disliked is the town level thing that really kills the variety in player build-ups, especially on higher difficulty levels.

Implying that HoMM 3 and 2 (and 1) didn't have laughable AI?

Well, they didn't. Unless you call every other AI in a fantasy TB strategy laughable then yeah, probably. True, in tactical battles it mostly plays not to win, but to cause as many casualties as possible through suicidal attacks, but what (vaguely) similar game doesn't do that? At least it's not that easy to exploit and doesn't do completely retarded things, like IV with its ranged stacks charging into melee.

 

[Zeriel]

HoMM4 was fun and is very underrated. Its chief problem was that it had as many misguided ideas as it had really good ones.

Honestly, IV is overrated if anything. That game was a complete, utter abortion on release. Later on they might've fixed the gamestopping issues, but it never got an expansion like TotE that actually improved it.

TotE (always worth stressing, since vanilla V was actually rather bad) is a good game. All the "it's III, just with bad graphics!" claims aren't exactly true, but contrary to IV and VI, the new ideas that it introduced were mostly genuinely good. The only one I really disliked is the town level thing that really kills the variety in player build-ups, especially on higher difficulty levels.

Implying that HoMM 3 and 2 (and 1) didn't have laughable AI?

Well, they didn't. Unless you call every other AI in a fantasy TB strategy laughable then yeah, probably. True, in tactical battles it mostly plays not to win, but to cause as many casualties as possible through suicidal attacks, but what (vaguely) similar game doesn't do that? At least it's not that easy to exploit and doesn't do completely retarded things, like IV with its ranged stacks charging into melee.

Yeah, when I say the AI in HOMM V is bad I mean the AI is so godawful it can't even put up the illusion of resisting the player. That's all we can ask for in singleplayer strategy games, and 2 and 3 did a decent job of that.

 

[zerotol]

That has always been the problem with AI in HOMM games and AI in general. Its hard to make a good AI without it cheating its ass off.

 

[MilesBeyond]

Problem with Homm5 is that it is a pretty hard game to enjoy in singleplayer. Horribly slow AI turns if you don't install a certain mod, an AI that doesn't actually know how to play the game, et cetera. The fundamental mechanics are really good, but that's not quite enough to make it a functioning singleplayer game. MP it is ace, though.

I thought TotE was a really solid Heroes game. Not as good as H3, but close, and it made a lot of cool changes and additions that I enjoyed (particularly the alternate upgrade system). Hell, even the campaign seemed to have gotten slightly more tolerable. But man, the length of those AI turns is what really turned me off of it and drove me back to H3.

Well, they didn't. Unless you call every other AI in a fantasy TB strategy laughable then yeah, probably. True, in tactical battles it mostly plays not to win, but to cause as many casualties as possible through suicidal attacks, but what (vaguely) similar game doesn't do that? At least it's not that easy to exploit and doesn't do completely retarded things, like IV with its ranged stacks charging into melee.

Oh for sure, they weren't as bad as later installments, but IMHO H3 is really the only game with tolerable AI. 2 had that stupid thing where it would almost always target whichever stack had the most HP, no matter what. This meant that it became trivially easy to win battles without taking a single casualty because the AI would only go after your level 6 units, which could be kept at full strength with only a little effort.


I mean, to be fair, even H4 and 5 aren't Civ-level bad when it comes to AI. I'm not really talking AI in comparison to other games, though. You're right that there aren't really many TBS games with AI better than some HoMM games.

 

[Wilian]

The worst part of HoMM V were the ridiculous turn loading times.

 

[MilesBeyond]

So the HoMM 7 Beta is officially open. Any brave souls want to try it out and tell the rest of us if its any good or not? It'll cost you sixty bucks but you'll probably get a brofist or two so it balances out.