Incline Hollow Knight

[Doktor Best]

Metroid Dread is annoying with too many cinematic action crap, time wasting loading sequences, and half-baked stealth.
Axiom Verge 1 is mediocre in almost every way.
The Messenger I can recommend at least for one playthrough.
Environmental Station Alpha is a "hidden gem" if you can stomach the pixel graphics, with La-Mulana-esque optional secrets.

I second Environmental Station Alpha.

 

[cvv]

Oh cvv theres also Bloodstained. It’s a very mixed bag, with the difficulty curve being most notably completely fucked, but it has some decent parts, and if you’re starved for more Metroidvanias it will pass the time. I wouldn’t pay more than $15 for it though.

Yeah, I looked at it just today, apparently it's a new game from the dude who came up with the whole genre. Sadly it's anime...not as disgusting as Genshin Impact and shit like that but still....for me vibe is important too. Maybe when I have nothing left to play but for now I have loads.

Also playing Blasphemous now and having a blast. The gameplay is not as slick and precise as HK or Ori but the vibe and aesthetics is through the roof. Tough bosses too. P. challenging in general, traps and spikes are instakills. Loving it so far.

 

[Jrpgfan]

Imagine not playing a Metroid(as in Super Metroid, a japanese game)Vania(as in Castlevania, a japanese game) because it has "anime graphics" lol.

And imagine playing Blasphemous instead because of that lmao.

"This game has animu grafix so ima play this shitty game here instead cuz the dude has a cool hat and there's western art and mature shit so I can look mature and shit because it's important to look mature and based when playing videogames if I dont look mature I cant enjoy playing video gaems"

 

[cvv]

"This game has animu grafix so ima play this shitty game here instead cuz the dude has a cool hat and there's western art and mature shit so I can look mature and shit because it's important to look mature and based when playing videogames if I dont look mature I cant enjoy playing video gaems"

I'm sensing some deep seated problem here.

Is fine, you can enjoy whatever you like and I will too.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

"This game has animu grafix so ima play this shitty game here instead cuz the dude has a cool hat and there's western art and mature shit so I can look mature and shit because it's important to look mature and based when playing videogames if I dont look mature I cant enjoy playing video gaems"

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Oh cvv theres also Bloodstained. It’s a very mixed bag, with the difficulty curve being most notably completely fucked, but it has some decent parts, and if you’re starved for more Metroidvanias it will pass the time. I wouldn’t pay more than $15 for it though.

Yeah, I looked at it just today, apparently it's a new game from the dude who came up with the whole genre. Sadly it's anime...not as disgusting as Genshin Impact and shit like that but still....for me vibe is important too. Maybe when I have nothing left to play but for now I have loads.

Also playing Blasphemous now and having a blast. The gameplay is not as slick and precise as HK or Ori but the vibe and aesthetics is through the roof. Tough bosses too. P. challenging in general, traps and spikes are instakills. Loving it so far.

If the screenshots turn you off of Bloodstained I would just stay clear of it. The weeb is very strong with it, and the story is absolute dog-shit tier anime trash.

 

[Sarathiour]

Blasphemous is a 10/10 in terms of art, atmosphere, and presentation, but doesn't hold up in terms of gameplay. There are (very) good bits, but they're hidden behind chunks of mediocre content. If excellent art is enough for you to enjoy a game, definitely give it a try.

What would be your beef with blasphemous gameplay ?

 

[Momock]

What would be your beef with blasphemous gameplay ?

It's trash? Everything feels off, it's clunky, hitboxes are a mess, moving around the stages with that slow-ass wall-stabing retardation is a pain, etc... and it was even worse before the patches. Also there's almost no evolution of character and traversal with new significant skills, the map is boring long corridors with samey visuals and very little secrets or interesting environmental/platforming challenges.

 

[Sarathiour]

I indeed ran into some collision and hitbox bug issue.

 

[NJClaw]

Blasphemous is a 10/10 in terms of art, atmosphere, and presentation, but doesn't hold up in terms of gameplay. There are (very) good bits, but they're hidden behind chunks of mediocre content. If excellent art is enough for you to enjoy a game, definitely give it a try.

What would be your beef with blasphemous gameplay ?

I'll quote myself:

Except for the secret areas under the elevators, what is there to explore? You have many branching paths, but each path on its own is just a linear corridor with nothing to do except walking (where, at best, you have to face a very bland and simple platforming or combat challenge). You have four items that unlock new forms of movement or new areas/secrets, but usually these areas/secrets are just a single screen with an item in it. You get the "blood platforms" item very early in the game, and you have no reason at all to ever take it off, so that barely counts. The "growing roots" item could be cool in theory, but 90% of the times the root is just there to let you gain a single item and nothing else. The "poison" item can be used like two times, and, again, it only lets you take an item, it doesn't really unlock new gameplay challenges. The "abyss" item is the only cool example and I have no real complaints, but it's just ONE single redeeming aspect of the exploration in this game.

Combat is almost never engaging or challenging. You have three kinds of enemies: (1) require you to just spam attacks until they die, (2) require you to wait for their attack and block or evade and then spam your attack until they die, and (3) require you to attack, evade, and repeat. There's no challenge involved, and you almost never have to adapt your playstyle to the enemies/environment. Simply spamming the attack button gets you through more than half of the game. The optional arenas could be fun, but combat is so easy in this game that they are always over in a matter of seconds. Some bosses have fun mechanics, but most of the time the combat routine doesn't really change from what you have already experienced against regular enemies, because you can spam attacks and, if you remember to heal when your health is low, they can't really kill you before you kill them (there are a couple of notable exceptions to this, but that's what they are: exceptions in an otherwise boring combat system).

On the other hand, the art, atmosphere, and narration are 10/10 and completely redeem the entire game.

This is true but same would go for Super Metroid. Not all Metroidvanias have to be super complicated in that department.

I'm not saying that they HAVE TO be super complicated in that department. All things considered, I enjoyed the game and I don't regret buying and playing it. Still, I think that adding elements to make exploration more engaging would improve the game. Even simple dangers and platforming challenges would suffice: the area where you have to jump around while avoiding the giant bell is fun, the pseudo-secret area where you have to jump between platforms while facing enemies in a very tight space is fun, the chalice that requires you to kill three different enemies around the world map is fun. I just think that there are too few interesting gameplay moments like these.

Dude. What are your fucking standards in regards to 2d combat!?
You can dash and block which already makes the game more complex than 95% of similar games.
What similar game has much more engaging combat that doesnt fall into one of your three listed options?
Hell, you even summed up every real time combat ever.

"Game is bad. All you do is jump and kill."

Come on, don't twist my words. The problem is not that all you do is jump and kill, but that you jump and kill always in the same way for the entire game. Your enemy can be a woman that uses a giant statue as a weapon, a strange creature hidden under a giant copper bell, a priest with a giant chandelier, a painting that comes to life, or a bas-relief that attacks you when you come near it, but you always face them with the same exact tactic.

Enemy variety is a perfect example of my criticism of the game: excellent with regard to the visual design, abysmal with regard to the gameplay they offer.

A similar game that handles both combat and exploration better, in my opinion, is Hollow Knight. Obviously not all games can be Hollow Knight, but the gap doesn't need to be this evident.

However, rereading my words, I was simply butthurt because I expected more from the game. If I had played it without unreasonably high expectations, I probably wouldn't have complained this much.

 

[cvv]

Except for the secret areas under the elevators, what is there to explore? You have many branching paths, but each path on its own is just a linear corridor with nothing to do except walking (where, at best, you have to face a very bland and simple platforming or combat challenge). You have four items that unlock new forms of movement or new areas/secrets, but usually these areas/secrets are just a single screen with an item in it.

Yeah, I kindda agree with all this.

Combat is almost never engaging or challenging. You have three kinds of enemies: (1) require you to just spam attacks until they die, (2) require you to wait for their attack and block or evade and then spam your attack until they die, and (3) require you to attack, evade, and repeat. There's no challenge involved

Not on board with this. P. much anything can be reduced to pathetic shittyness with an analysis like this. It's like that recent comment in one of the Souls threads: "All you need to do in Souls games is press the dodge and attack buttons at the right time. Such plain, wow boring." While technically true it doesn't exactly paint the full picture.

And as for the challenge comment....well you've recently shared you've beaten most Elden Ring bosess first or second try. Meaning difficulty is subjective. I find Blasphemous reasonably challenging, more than HK in a few places. At least there aren't any instakills in HK and bosses aren't HP sponges.

Look it'd be stupid to claim Blasphemous is just as good as Hollow Knight or Ori 2. But there aren't just two kinds of games - excellent and bad. There's a lot of space between those extremes. And Blasphemous is definitely on the "good" half of the scale. It's not the first game I'd recommend to a metroidvania noobie but it's definitely something worth playing if you've run out of the handful of the S-tier entries and you're still in the mood of more metroidvania goodness.

 

[Sarathiour]

On NG+ you can take vow in blasphemous that are going to alter the gameplay.

For difficulty, HK start as pretty easy and get increasingly high the whole game, until then end when it can get really challenging, with extra spicy contempt for those willing.

Blasphemous start being moderately more difficult than HK early, but plateau for most of the game afterward. There is of course a few difficulty spike here and there.

Nothing else to add, I mostly agree with cvv

 

[cvv]

For difficulty, HK start as pretty easy and get increasingly high the whole game, until then end when it can get really challenging, with extra spicy contempt for those willing.

That was not my experience. HK was a bit difficult for me at the beginning, got stuck on Hornet, Soul Master and Crystal Guardian for quite some time, but the first nail upgrade made a big difference and by the third upgrade most fights become quite comfortable. The 4th upgrade felt out of place, as if meant for more hardcore DLCs (which I haven't played).

 

[NJClaw]

Look it'd be stupid to claim Blasphemous is just as good as Hollow Knight or Ori 2. But there aren't just two kinds of games - excellent and bad. There's a lot of space between those extremes. And Blasphemous is definitely on the "good" half of the scale. It's not the first game I'd recommend to a metroidvania noobie but it's definitely something worth playing if you've run out of the handful of the S-tier entries and you're still in the mood of more metroidvania goodness.

This is exactly how I feel about the game. If my words seem too negative, it's only because I played it expecting something much closer to HK.

I get how the "all you do is block, dodge, and attack" can sound dumb, but I couldn't find a better way to summarize my complaints. My problems with the combat in Blasphemous all stem from the fact that, putting aside the enemies' astounding visual design, fighting enemies almost never felt exciting or interesting. The only encounters that I remember as truly unique are the ghosts in the library, the jumping section with flying exploding heads, and the enemies in the walls while you get up the mountain. Everything else felt too bland and samey. With a comparable amount of player's moves and options, combat in HK is much more fun, because each enemy has a distinct, unique behavior, which most of the times complements very well the platforming challenges of the area it inhabits. With this I don't mean that Blasphemous is trash, I just find its combat mediocre. I still enjoyed my time with it and would recommend it.

 

[Sarathiour]

each enemy has a distinct, unique behavior, which most of the times complements very well the platforming challenges of the area it inhabits

I think you hit the nail on the head. What make HK encounter more diversified is that enemy will often synergize with the environnement. Most of deepnest enemy would barely pose a threat if you encountered them in say, city of tear, but they take advantage of low fied of vision, noise and "swarm" aspect to effectively ambush you.

 

[Elwro]

HK also has very good sound design, working especially well in dark areas (and / or if you don't have the lantern). I found a few secrets only due to aural clues.

 

[Visperas]

each enemy has a distinct, unique behavior, which most of the times complements very well the platforming challenges of the area it inhabits

I think you hit the nail on the head. What make HK encounter more diversified is that enemy will often synergize with the environnement. Most of deepnest enemy would barely pose a threat if you encountered them in say, city of tear, but they take advantage of low fiel of vision, noise and "swarm" aspect to effectively ambush you.

100% this. It took me a while to figure out why Hollow Knight was so good and one of the reasons is definitely the variety of enemies, how smart their placement is and the fact that it makes sense for them to be there.

 

[---]

Happy birthday, HK

 

[cvv]

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

Hollow Knight is a good game, but Blasphemous is better. Blasphemous is more of a direct version of what Super Metroid did, while Hollow Knight is more of a Symphony of the Night type game.
Bloodstained isn't very good, I'd say.

Imo:

Blasphemous > HK >>>>>> Bloodstained

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Oh look! A wild alt!

 

[Grauken]

Hollow Knight is a good game, but Blasphemous is better. Blasphemous is more of a direct version of what Super Metroid did, while Hollow Knight is more of a Symphony of the Night type game.
Bloodstained isn't very good, I'd say.

Imo:

Blasphemous > HK >>>>>> Bloodstained

Blasphemous looks amazing but otherwise it's just not a good metroidvania, not even close to games like Hollow Knight or even Super Metroid

 

[Dadd]

One could say Blasphemous is a "hollow" game

 

[cvv]

I haven't played any of the old console metroidvanias, only a bunch of the new ones on PC.

Out of all those only Hollow Knight and Ori 2 were S tier.

Blasphemous is a good game, something like A- or B+ tier.

 

[Elwro]

Blasphemous is OK. Definitely a game with soul. But for me it scratches a different itch.