TBS HoMM3 fan add-on Horn Of The Abyss now available in English

[Zboj Lamignat]

I've been playing this a lot recently and was wondering what people think about the balance changes introduced, since this mod definitely moved out of "cool new content" into more of a "modders know better" territory.

When it comes to factions, conflux and necro were the two most affected, for obvious reasons.

I'm strongly biased since necro was always my favorite faction, but I'm not enjoying everything connected with necromancy getting slashed in half. I've completed a map with Thant (my fav hero, fite me), didn't get much lack with skill upgrades, had just one amplifier and no artifacts. Felt like it did very little most of the time, even with no skellie upgrade until super late into the game and using Thant's res to achieve 0 casualties creeping. Thing is, necro's l2 and 3 are super poo-poo so you really need those skellingtons to get going. Gib skellingtons plz.

What they did with conflux was p spot on, on the other hand. Fire birbs needed to be put in check and it was done rather elegantly. You still get extra growth and still can do all the crazy crap they allow for if you wish, but it's not as ridiculous and effortless anymore. Putting extra cost on l6 is also not the worst idea in the world.

I wonder why, of all the lower end factions, they decided to mostly boost Tower. Inferno got a bit of a bone thrown their direction, but not nearly enough to salvage them. And Dungeon got slightly nerfed, if anything, lol.

I'm definitely not a huge fan of skill changes, though.

Banning resistance. It's not like I'm gonna miss it, but it's a weird decision. Always thought this skill is very meh and also uniquely bad in that not only is it one of those that need a lucky roll to trigger, but it also only does something when fighting another hero and is pointless for creeping (with some extremely rare exceptions).

I didn't really use the new skill, interference, but it seems like something that's only useful when fighting another hero and only really when they are focused on direct damage spells. In other words - almost never. Sorcery is also widely considered one of the worst skills in the game, so introducing a new skill that pretty much just directly counters it seems like a pretty bizarre choice. And sorcery actually does something for you regardless of circumstances.

Intelligence got severely nerfed. This skill was always in a weird spot. The effect is good, but it always had problems with breaking the mold of top tier skills that you always want to take. And it's not something you'd want on your secondaries, either. Well, I guess you could make an argument that it was just too good at what it wanted to do and allowed disregarding knowledge to a big extent.

Mysticism buff is an obvious thing, but it doesn't really salvage that skill, with the exception of heroes that start with it. This skill could/should imo be fused with intelligence, particularly when they decided to strongly nerf the latter. Skill slot economy is super tight as is.

Logistics got nerfed. Anything giving extra strategic movement was nerfed. I see the rationale, but ain't sure what is this supposed to change on a grander scale other than big maps with no portal being all the more annoying. You'll still always want this.

Estates yield got doubled. Guess it's now a more decent skill for secondaries as it no longer needs more than one week to give you one day of capitol money. I still don't really feel excited about it outside of bumrushing on impossible difficulty and there are still multiple skills I'd rather have on secondaries most of the time.

Oh, I guess scouting got boosted, too. Not that anyone cares.

Latest news on the forums seems to suggest new update with Factory is going to be released this year. I won't put my money on it, though.

 

[Lacrymas]

HoMM3 suffers from (Mass) Haste/Slow being the best spells in the game too, not only from faction imbalance.

 

[Endemic]

Tower is overly expensive for what you get (upgrades use far too many rare resources) and creatures are slow overall.

You tried maining Galthran instead? Buffing your skeleton horde is underrated.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

HotA bans Galthran. I was also never a fan of the more cheesy heroes tbh, and he is one of them.

And Tower is too expensive for sure (bordering unplayable on higher difficulties, as you are prone to get completely fecked by resource screw), but I'd definitely help Inferno over it.

 

[Endemic]

Devils and some creature structures could be cheaper, yeah. Efreet rush and/or Demon farming seem to be the main strengths, not sure buffing the lower tier creatures would be that helpful.

 

[Quatlo]

Being able to ground target with magogs is the biggest gamechanger for me, you just kill your own imps and turn them into devils. Much much better since you dont need to rely on creeps to do it reliably in the amounts you want.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Manual targetting for aoe attacks is yuge. I wasn't sure whether it was added by HD or HoA tho.

 

[index.php]

https://heroes3wog.net/horn-of-the-abyss-factory-campaign-complete/

Horn of the Abyss v1.7 – The Factory campaign is completely finished​

Author: Liso1 November 8, 2023

Friends and not-so-friends, I bring you a bit of long-awaited news. More precisely not just news, but summaries from the development and a few facts about the campaign.

07.11.2023 – Horn of the Abyss v1.7​

• Completely finished gameplay part of the Factory campaign: All 8 maps are ready, tested and linked together by transitioning heroes, artifacts, etc.
• New single-player maps have been added to the game and almost all old maps have been updated where required
• Right now we’re in the process of recording the voiceovers for the campaign videos. Yes, the traditional howl-over during the before and after missions will return, with plans to voice the already released dockside campaigns as well
• Simultaneously with the voiceover, texts are being written to accompany players on the campaign maps
• Work on bug fixes and code optimization is ongoing

And while I’m talking about the Campaign, I’ll tell you a little bit about it:​

You already know that it has 8 missions, almost all maps are medium, large and very large in size, play for a long time, which will definitely appeal to fans of bringing together large armies in epic battles.

The campaign will offer dozens of hours of gameplay, but I will warn you! The campaign will be challenging, designed for the experienced player. If you found the dockside campaigns challenging, you should definitely not choose the “high” difficulty levels: We went further and in addition to the standard AI enhancement and reduced starting resources, a player playing on the higher difficulty levels will encounter additional challenges and will be limited in some of the features available when playing on lower difficulty levels.

So you should not feel obliged to play only on the “impossible” level. If there are difficulties, feel free to place a horse or rook (or maybe a pawn) – there will be plenty of large-scale battles, cunning opponents, and opportunities to solve mission objectives in several ways at any difficulty level!

It’s no exaggeration to say that this will be the most detailed campaign in the history of the game, the least we can do in memory of Docent.
Of course, the team has further stories to tell when the time comes, but we probably won’t dare to encroach on the Factory’s ascendant campaign. -by Donko from HotA Team


Source: https://forum.df2.ru/index.php?s=c8f0df8fd93d5ccc517d3cd5a317371e&showtopic=37363&st=4000

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

I want to believe.

 

[ciox]

HoMM3 suffers from (Mass) Haste/Slow being the best spells in the game too, not only from faction imbalance.

I wonder if they could make it so spells like that have about an Inferno-sized cast area instead of the full playfield, and if that would be balanced.

 

[Lacrymas]

HoMM3 suffers from (Mass) Haste/Slow being the best spells in the game too, not only from faction imbalance.

I wonder if they could make it so spells like that have about an Inferno-sized cast area instead of the full playfield, and if that would be balanced.

Not really because it only tackles the symptom, rather than the cause. Haste/Slow being so overpowered has to do with retaliations being after the attack, so you are incentivized to attack first in every possible scenario, thus Haste/Slow being the best spells in the game.

 

[ciox]

HoMM3 suffers from (Mass) Haste/Slow being the best spells in the game too, not only from faction imbalance.

I wonder if they could make it so spells like that have about an Inferno-sized cast area instead of the full playfield, and if that would be balanced.

Not really because it only tackles the symptom, rather than the cause. Haste/Slow being so overpowered has to do with retaliations being after the attack, so you are incentivized to attack first in every possible scenario, thus Haste/Slow being the best spells in the game.

H4 bros, we are so back.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

New version is out, factory is in. Happy new year bros.

 

[ciox]

https://heroes.thelazy.net/index.php/Factory#Creatures

Creature lineup looks great and also fiting.

 

[Black]

The wait is over.

https://h3hota.com/en/download

https://heroes3wog.net/horn-of-the-abyss-v1-7-with-factory-was-released-full-changelog/

 

[Dr1f7]

I've been playing this a lot recently and was wondering what people think about the balance changes introduced, since this mod definitely moved out of "cool new content" into more of a "modders know better" territory.

When it comes to factions, conflux and necro were the two most affected, for obvious reasons.

I'm strongly biased since necro was always my favorite faction, but I'm not enjoying everything connected with necromancy getting slashed in half. I've completed a map with Thant (my fav hero, fite me), didn't get much lack with skill upgrades, had just one amplifier and no artifacts. Felt like it did very little most of the time, even with no skellie upgrade until super late into the game and using Thant's res to achieve 0 casualties creeping. Thing is, necro's l2 and 3 are super poo-poo so you really need those skellingtons to get going. Gib skellingtons plz.

yeah i get it necro is my fav too I hate when my fav faction gets nerfed for "balance" by some metagaming dweeb virgin cuck loser shitsack goober the modder can suck my shit and sshove a whole optimized factory up his ass

 

[Parabalus]

Campaign seems pretty good.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

in two-hero combat, the attacker is forbidden to retreat in the first round of combat after casting a spell

Suicide nukers BTFO.

 

[luj1]

The wait is over.

https://h3hota.com/en/download

https://heroes3wog.net/horn-of-the-abyss-v1-7-with-factory-was-released-full-changelog/

Is this the same Factory that was cut from the game? Doesn't look like it

 

[Lacrymas]

Is this the same Factory that was cut from the game? Doesn't look like it

The Heavenly Forge was replaced with the Conflux, this is something else entirely.

 

[luj1]

Looks like shit tbh

Im yet to see a faction which fits in with OG factions

 

[whydoibother]

The wait is over.

https://h3hota.com/en/download

https://heroes3wog.net/horn-of-the-abyss-v1-7-with-factory-was-released-full-changelog/

Wow, it only took 10 years!!

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

OK, initial impressions time.

Factory has a lot of really weird and shit (also weirdly shit) heroes. Guy that gets diplomacy bonus when surrendering, lots of creature specialists in the magic class instead of might, scouting and first aid specialists (that also cannot replace the tent by default), land mine specialist that starts with learning, guy that starts with artillery and ballistics. Even the potentially good heroes tend to be ruined in some way (offense specialist starts with scouting).

There's one obvious standout, though. They do get an armorer specialist that also starts with offense, which instantly makes him one of the best mains in the game. People who buy into the Solmyr meme can probably also enjoy the one that has lightning bolt special (and starts with sorcery). Other than that, there's also one very decent secondary (+350 gold that starts with scholar). Finally maybe the guy who specializes in t4 (very good units) and has tactics.

Overall rating: poo poo. You'll either play random like a man and then weep in the corner or pick the armorer specialist every time like a sperg.

Unit-wise, T1 is the standout one. Second t1 shooter in the game (and the first one when not upgraded). They are expensive, but hit very hard after the upgrade. Considering the nerfs to some of the biggest competitors (skellies, sprites), I think this is actually a decent candidate for the title of best t1 in the game, with the caveat that they don't scale all that great for big hero battles.

T2 has whatever stats, but can res mechanical units and has a breath attack, although it's difficult to utilize with low speed. AI also seems to like targeting them and they are prone to die a lot in autoresolve.

T3 is the defender of the roster and is a shit-tier unit. Other than a body to block stuff with there's nothing there, not even a special that would somehow amplify the defensive role, like dwarves, golems or dendroids have.

T4 is the second (and final) standout. Fast unit with no retaliation and deterministic damage? Yes, please. AI likes targeting them and they can be resurrected by T2. These are also absolute bitch to fight as neutral stacks as their "explode on death" special actually deals a very high damage that will decimate low level units.

T5 has a weird special that's seems to mostly sit in theorycrafting corner and is close to impossible to properly use in practice. They are pretty fast, teleporting units with respectable stats, though, so no complaints here.

T6 is a freakishly weird unit. Similarly to halfings, second shooter in their tier. They are incredibly fragile (45 hp!) and have a bizzare special that just doesn't work by design, because human player will never target them with ranged units and AI is actually programmed to never do it, either. They can do some work, but I really don't think t6 that has 45hp when upgraded is sustainable.

And the big thing about the roster is that it has two t7, which are not mutually exclusive. The flying one reminds me of the necro dragons in that they have bad stats, but fly and are fast which makes them actually more usable than the theoretically stronger slow t7 in many situations. They also have an interesting special ability that together with their speed and flying allows for some unorthodox, aggressive opening moves. The AI is programmed to not attack them when they use it, though. Would be far too op otherwise.

The robot t7 is a slow brawler that's very tanky when upgraded and has a theoretical access to res from t2 by default. They have a special melee aoe attack that's, you guessed it, rather difficult to utilize in practice. I'm not a fan of slow t7 and this one lack the special oomph that hydras have when they actually engage. The upgraded version is very respectable stat-wise at least, which can not be said about the flying one.

The final bummer is the cost. Factory is very expensive not only in gold, but similar to in-adjusted stronghold in that it costs an idiotic amount of crystals (and ore) to get their roster going. So it joins the group of factions that are not only not the greatest performers in general, but also scale poorly on higher difficulty levels.

Final verdict: seems like an average to low faction that has to rely on the early game where they have great t1 and can rush strong t4 supported by t2. No early game flyer, tho. Their units have lots of weird, over-designed special abilities that just don't work in practice and even if they do, the unit itself is too weak (flying t7). Finally, unimpressive hero roster and high costs across the board. They do get +crystal silo and bank is an interesting building for boosting early game builds, but I don't see it as being enough.

 

[whydoibother]

I expected it to be overpowered and patched down in strength. You make it sound like the opposite is true.
Bad hero traits that are thematically sensible, but mechanically weak, is also a weird choice for a niche mod that only hardcore players will try. Is this expected to be used with Wake of Gods or some other mod that balances Scout, etc? Does it even work with WoG?

Also I want to shill Song of Conquest, its 50% off right now.

 

[Lagole Gon]

Modders making their faction underpowered but interesting and thematic is a chad move, if you ask me.