Grand Strategy Imperator: Rome - the new grand strategy from Paradox

[Agame]

The game is deep for people that get drowned in a puddle. It is no wonder that a bunch of creatively bankrupted programmers will see it as deep. The biggest problem for paradox is that they lack actually creative people with a vision. Most if not all of their people are programmers that know only numbers and stat stacking. Johan did a good job when he had to translate other people's creativity(EU boardgame) in to a PC game. Now that they have to create new games,they are shit at it and all their dlcs are some bullshit mechanic that uses the same numbers mechanics that are prevalent in all of their games. Fuck,just make me a lead of those cucks for a year and will make the best grand strategy ever made!!!

Yes! You nailed it. Johan is a programmer, (maybe even a great programmer, I have no idea?) but he is creatively bankrupt, and I:R is the perfect example of a game created by someone with NO vision. Its a long running joke that paradox games are spread-sheet simulators, but CK, Vic, even HOI all have unique aspects that make them greater than the sum of their parts, and they are compelling and interesting to play.

And thats why we have this disconnect between Johan and a large part of the player base. He may genuinely think he did a good job with I:R and cannot understand the kickback from the community. But he is physically incapable of making something that has that creative spark to make it special. Look at the fixes they have planned to give the game more flavor, +% bonuses to different countries to make them unique... This game is doomed.

 

[Catacombs]

Its a long running joke that paradox games are spread-sheet simulators

Ever heard of Aurora 4x?

 

[Raghar]

The game is deep for people that get drowned in a puddle. It is no wonder that a bunch of creatively bankrupted programmers will see it as deep. The biggest problem for paradox is that they lack actually creative people with a vision. Most if not all of their people are programmers that know only numbers and stat stacking.

But, in garage games era these self-educated were also programmers and they were able to design new and interesting systems. In fact when designer was also a programmer it was massive advantage because he could do realistic design, and in worst case program these designs himself.

But of course not every programmer was a product of school education.

 

[LESS T_T]

Looks like pre-order and initial sales were not that bad. Playtracker's wild estimation is about 314K copies. (Stellaris, then fastest selling PDS game, has sold over 500K copies over two months) This was anticipated as the next grand strategy game from Paradox after all.

But now, it's sitting at page 5 of Steam's global top seller list. (Below Tropico 6 and Pathfinder: Kingmaker, both without discount.) Not expected for a new Paradox game to be honest.

I guess, aside from the negative word-of-mouth, Steam's visibility system is also doing its work. From Gunpoint developer's blog post:

Info: your user review rating doesn’t affect visibility, unless it’s ‘mostly negative’ or worse
This is straight from Valve, confirmed twice. User review % has no effect on when or where the Steam store promotes your game, unless it’s ‘mostly negative’ or worse. That’s not to say it won’t affect sales, of course: if I see something’s ‘mixed’ I at least scroll down to find out why. Steam also surfaces your user review rating in many places other than your store page, so while it won’t affect when it gets shown, it might affect how many people click through.

For one, I can't find Imperator: Rome in related game sections of other PDS games and Rome strategy games.

 

[fantadomat]

The game is deep for people that get drowned in a puddle. It is no wonder that a bunch of creatively bankrupted programmers will see it as deep. The biggest problem for paradox is that they lack actually creative people with a vision. Most if not all of their people are programmers that know only numbers and stat stacking.

But, in garage games era these self-educated were also programmers and they were able to design new and interesting systems. In fact when designer was also a programmer it was massive advantage because he could do realistic design, and in worst case program these designs himself.

But of course not every programmer was a product of school education.

Most of those games were based on board games,and most of those were based on a medieval history and old legends. I would hardly call it original or creative.

 

[titus]

Its a long running joke that paradox games are spread-sheet simulators

Ever heard of Aurora 4x?

Yeah but with Aurora 4x you know what you get yourself into. You embrace the spreadsheet.

 

[Catacombs]

Its a long running joke that paradox games are spread-sheet simulators

Ever heard of Aurora 4x?

Yeah but with Aurora 4x you know what you get yourself into. You embrace the spreadsheet.

I work with spreadsheets all day. So I guess I'm LARPing?

 

[titus]

I work with spreadsheets all day. So I guess I'm LARPing?

That's being called loving your job.

 

[Raghar]

Last Paradox games have not enough spreatsheets.

 

[Catacombs]

I work with spreadsheets all day. So I guess I'm LARPing?

That's being called loving your job.

Well...I do enjoy my work.

 

[Goliath]

Everybody can currently easily get every achievement in Imperator

 

[Tigranes]

Achievements are retardo cancer shit and caring about them either way is stupid

So is posting random youtube videos and nothing else and calling it a day

Guess not much else to beat about this dead horse until about 8 DLCs later, though

 

[Fedora Master]

Everyone is holding their breaths for the first big patch but from all we've seen from Paradox they won't be able to take the game in a good direction anyway. They refuse to see the core issues with the mana system.

 

[Catacombs]

Everybody can currently easily get every achievement in Imperator

Arumba's CK2 videos are awesome.

 

[Zeriel]

Everybody can currently easily get every achievement in Imperator

You can also get every achievement on every game on Steam using tools, this really doesn't matter at all like Tigranes said.

 

[Martyr]

the achievements can't be that hard to achieve "correctly", can they?
I mean I literally learned how to play Imperator in about 5 minutes. checked the tutorial to see if there are some hidden mechanics that I didn't know of, but nope. seems like a rather simple game to me. or at least simple compared to earlier Paradox games like Crusader Kings. playing Crusader Kings 1 and 2 for the first time was rather intimidating and learning how to play them took time, even if you were familiar with Hearts of Iron and Europa Universalis. Imperator Rome seems like the most casual game of the bunch.

 

[vonAchdorf]

Like in the old EU: Rome, there's not much more than map painting to the game.

 

[Agame]

"Don't you guys like painting maps!?"

 

[Life of the Party]

Achievements are retardo cancer shit and caring about them either way is stupid

Achievements, multiplayer and LE EPIC MEMES XD is where we're at right now.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

He fails to understand 2 very key issues for why the game isnt just panned by hardcore fans but everybody in a really extreme way.
First, that people arent asking for a full-dlc level content, but that people will compare the product on offer with other products on the shelf in some way, and failure to anticipate that is their failure and not the customers being crazy and irrational. It doesnt help that EU Rome isnt exactly a glowing beacon in the pdox portfolio historically.

And this is why paratards deserve everything they get. They should be asking for that. Otherwise what is the point of making sequels or new games?

 

[Average Manatee]

The game lacks even very basic EU4 shit. It's like EU:Rome was cryogenically unfrozen and mana was injected, EU4 never happened. AI diplomatic stances (friendly/hostile/etc)? Not there. Marking provinces of interest (so the AI gives you what you want and you can see whether taking x will piss off an ally)? Gone. AI Trust indicator? Gone. All of this shit is almost certainly in the game, they've existed but been mostly hidden in all of the Victoria/EU games up until EU4 where the devs exposed and let you strategize around them. Now they are back hidden, like Johan hasn't paid any attention to the last half decade of EU4 development. I suppose we should be thankful that you can change control of occupied provinces to begin with, that's DLC in EU4.

 

[fantadomat]

"Don't you guys like painting maps!?"

The map painting is not the problem,the way you do it is. Lets not pretend that people play those game so they could dev push a fucking city in to orbit without expanding. Everyone plays paradox games for the war and conquest,only old people and retards play tall,and that is because they can't keep up.

 

[Tigranes]

He fails to understand 2 very key issues for why the game isnt just panned by hardcore fans but everybody in a really extreme way.
First, that people arent asking for a full-dlc level content, but that people will compare the product on offer with other products on the shelf in some way, and failure to anticipate that is their failure and not the customers being crazy and irrational. It doesnt help that EU Rome isnt exactly a glowing beacon in the pdox portfolio historically.

And this is why paratards deserve everything they get. They should be asking for that. Otherwise what is the point of making sequels or new games?

Eh. I don't think a new paradox game has to have as much content as a full-DLC CK2. That's a lot of pure content in terms of the map, the events, and so on. I don't think that's necessary for the sequel to be worth the money, either.

What you do expect is for paradox to learn from the process of refining their mechanics over such DLC lifecycles that their consumers supported with $, and to come out with games that are more smartly made, and not basically a regression of their design.

Part of the answer seems to be that Johan really believes that this regressive mana infestation is 'improved' design.

 

[Hoggypare]

Eh. I don't think a new paradox game has to have as much content as a full-DLC CK2. That's a lot of pure content in terms of the map, the events, and so on. I don't think that's necessary for the sequel to be worth the money, either.

What you do expect is for paradox to learn from the process of refining their mechanics over such DLC lifecycles that their consumers supported with $, and to come out with games that are more smartly made, and not basically a regression of their design.

Part of the answer seems to be that Johan really believes that this regressive mana infestation is 'improved' design.

It would be also nice if they were different and at least making an attempt at depicting specific time period. CK2 does that with family/character based gameplay, Victoria II did so superbly with focus on socio-economical matters. For all the shit HoI4 gets, its production and supply system is great and very representative of the era that is WW2.
From what I've seen with imperator, it is just 'the paradox game'. Because of all the abstractions, mana, etc. there seems to be nothing there that actually tries to portray antiquity. People would be fine with less feature-heavy games if there were tailored for the period.
What Paradox seems to not understand (which is exemplified by Johann stating how he sees all similiar government-type nations being the same as 'good thing'), is that people don't play their games for great gameplay (which in most games is serviceable at best), balance, etc. but for history roleplaying. We seem to get less and less of it, with historical events gone from titles like EU and now a their new game stripped of all character and uniqueness of the period.

 

[fantadomat]

He fails to understand 2 very key issues for why the game isnt just panned by hardcore fans but everybody in a really extreme way.
First, that people arent asking for a full-dlc level content, but that people will compare the product on offer with other products on the shelf in some way, and failure to anticipate that is their failure and not the customers being crazy and irrational. It doesnt help that EU Rome isnt exactly a glowing beacon in the pdox portfolio historically.

And this is why paratards deserve everything they get. They should be asking for that. Otherwise what is the point of making sequels or new games?

Eh. I don't think a new paradox game has to have as much content as a full-DLC CK2. That's a lot of pure content in terms of the map, the events, and so on. I don't think that's necessary for the sequel to be worth the money, either.

What you do expect is for paradox to learn from the process of refining their mechanics over such DLC lifecycles that their consumers supported with $, and to come out with games that are more smartly made, and not basically a regression of their design.

Part of the answer seems to be that Johan really believes that this regressive mana infestation is 'improved' design.

I want them to have all the mechanical improvement(non flavour like estates) appropriate for this game that were made until now. It is not some amazingly hard work to copy a bunch of code on to another game. The game is a total regress compared both to ck and eu4 1.0 releases. For fuck sake they could even attach units to docked boats,this game cant. A mission three would have been a must if there was a competent project lead,fuck some of the nations have missions but you have no idea what they are or what triggers them.

 

[Life of the Party]

Spoiler

Hi everyone and welcome back to another development diary! This time we look into some of the political changes for the free Pompey update that will be out in June.

Electable Age in Republics

Different republics will have different age-requirements for who can be elected to become ruler. Rome for example, require its rulers to be at least 35 years old.

Co-Ruler/Dual-Rulers

In the Pompey patch (v1.1), Aristocratic Republics will have Consuls & Co-Consuls. When elected, the one with highest support becomes Consul, and the one with the second highest number of votes becomes Co-Consul. This often means that they come from two different parties.

When it comes to power generation, the stats of the Consul with the highest attribute will be used, giving a nice benefit to the country.

The loyalty of those of the same party as the Co-Consul gets a positive impact if he is loyal, and negative impact if he is disloyal. We simulate the friction between the two consuls by the loyalty of the co-consul. Also, if the Co-Consul gets low loyalty, the power costs increase by up to 25%.

The Co-Consus gain popularity by the same factor as the first consul gains popularity, and the ruler popularity that other characters look at is the average of both Consuls.

Any ruling trait that a Co-Consul has will also be added to the country.

A major drawback for Aristocratic Republics is the fact that impact of ruler corruption could be doubled, as both Consuls corruption is added together for the country.

Consorts

In some types of monarchies, the consorts have some sort of supportive abilities. In such a monarchy, the consorts works like a co-ruler for how you gain power each month, ie the highest score of an attribute of the ruler and his/her consort is the one considered, so the capabilities of who you marry to your ruler is important.

Consorts also get a loyalty-hit over time, if they are not the parent of the primary heir of the current ruler, and if they become disloyal, they will increase the power-costs by up to 25%, scaled by how disloyal they are.

Government Abilities

In the Pompey patch we have added some extra abilities for each of the three government forms, where you can strengthen yourself.

Republics

Each party has a specific action connected to it, where the cost is halved if that party is in power, and also increase the populist popularity.

• Civic Party - Pay Civic Power for cheaper building costs.
• Military Party - Pay Military Power for more discipline .
• Mercantile Party - Pay Oratory Power for cheaper trade routes.
• Religious Party - Pay Religious Power for cheaper conversions.
• Populist Party - Only if populists are in power, pay money for reduction in corruption and populist support,

Monarchies

• War Council - You can Summon a War Council once every ten years, where your important courtiers will propose different places where you should start wars, giving you claims on adjacent areas.
• Demands Oath of Allegiance - Spend lots of oratory and religious power to increase the support for your Primary Heir over time.
• Hold Games - Spends money of both the country and the ruler to increase his or her popularity.
• Patronize the Arts - Spend Civic Power to gain Primary Culture Happiness and Civilization Increase over time.

Tribes

• War Council - Same as for monarchies
• Assemble Raiding Parties - Spend Oratory and Military Power to get a boost in Enslavement Efficiency.
• Encourage Tribal Migration - Makes you lose 5 tribesmen pops, for a tick down in centralization.

(And there is more new things for tribes, mentioned in a later development diary.)

Power Base & Civil Wars

In Pompey each character in your realm can have a potential power base. This is both an abstract gauge of how influential they are in a country as well as a meter for how many troops they could raise in a civil war. The total power base in a country will range up to around 300 and it is scaled within that country.

Power base is primarily derived from:

• Loyal Troops
• Owned Holdings
• Titles
• How much of the country’s population that is ruled by a character who is a Governor or ruler.
• Ruler Popularity (for the ruler)
• Character Wealth

It can also be modified by interactions, events and other script content...

For purposes of Civil Wars the game will no longer count Loyal Cohorts but instead the Power Base of all disloyal characters.

The threshold for civil war is 33%, with positive stability increasing it, and negative decreasing it.

Character Interactions

We will go deeper in a later developer diary about the new abilities we will be adding, we can now mention that we are rebalancing the costs quite heavily for them, removing the power costs, and using the new abilities to impact Aggressive Expansion, Tyranny or Stability from it. Recruiting a character from another nation wlll increase your AE, while bribing will be done with the rulers own personal money.

Next week we’ll talk about playing tall, changes to barbarians, trade & slave distribution, while going into more detail about heritages.