Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Improving Skyrim / Recommended Mods thread (Mostly about Requiem)

Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
If I wouldn't like it at all, I would have stopped using it already.
I might try to rebalance it a bit to my liking using the included MCM settings, though.

Also I'm anyway too lazy to go looking for a compilation of mods that suit my personal tastes better, fine-tune the selection and get it up running stably. :M
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
If you catch a huge 2h hmmr from an overhead swing squarely in the face you should be dead.
Skyrim has no location damage. A hammer to the head should kill you. An hammer to the right side of your torso that misses your organs shouldn't. Problem is Requiem assumes every arrow/hammer/etc hits your head. That's just stupid. In a game without location damage, there needs to be a range of damage based on skill, weapon type and effort put into the attack. Gives it some variety instead of instagib every freakn time someone nudges you too hard.
5. Pacing
More care should be put into keeping the pacing of quests plausible regarding difficulty. It's apparent in the main quest, but also in guild quests and side quests. With Requiem de-levelling Skyrim anyway, it should be possible to ensure that early Companion quests don't send you against master vampires or similar things.
The guild questlines are very short, so if you start any guild at low level and try to play it straight through, you'll likely get in over your head before too long.

That's mostly Bethesda's fault. The half assed writing just isn't compatible with the higher difficulty in Requiem: Saying "Go here and do X now before the world ends or we all die or whatever!!!1" to a level 10 player will undoubtedly get them killed in Requiem. If it were a bit more like Morrowind with it's skill requirements for promotion, it'd be workable though. As it stands, there is nothing to prevent the game from assigning urgent (as far as the writing is concerned) quests that are impossible at the player's level. That's bad because it takes the player out of the game and forces them to go grind vs Morrowind's "You aren't ready for promotion, go do more stuff and get better and then we'll talk about what to do next." which accomplishes the same thing without breaking immersion by making you take several months to train in the middle of your "save the world right freak'n now" quest.

In other words: it's fixable, but the requiem dude would need to gate content behind skill checks, or at least give the player a choice by warning them beforehand. Kinda difficult to do in a game with full voice acting and lip syncing.
 
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
1,876,743
Location
Glass Fields, Ruins of Old Iran
git gud instead, scrubs

If Requiem's MCM options don't help you, SkyTweak lets you...tweak a bunch of variables. I set mine to 100% damage taken and received, and dual casting using 200% mana for 200% power.

In other words: it's fixable, but the requiem dude would need to gate content behind skill checks, or at least give the player a choice by warning them beforehand. Kinda difficult to do in a game with full voice acting and lip syncing.

The game uses stages to progress quests, I guess he could just halt progression until you have achieved a certain level of power(checking raw stats or the bullshit statistics like fame, renown and the like). So the Whiterun tower isn't attacked as soon as you retrieve the stone plate, for example. But sacrificing freedom for story isn't a great idea.
 
Last edited:

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
The game uses stages to progress quests, I guess he could just halt progression until you have achieved a certain level of power(checking raw stats or the bullshit statistics like fame, renown and the like). So the Whiterun tower isn't attacked as soon as you retrieve the stone plate, for example. But sacrificing freedom for story isn't a great idea.
What freedom? The player won't be able to go there anyway because they'll die. And most quest dungeons are either locked off until you have the quest, or else have locked off areas. So the only freedom is to go there and realize you can't actually go there.

Your example is actually perfect. It'd be invisible to the player. The player would just wander around in the world, do quests and level naturally instead of thinking, "Oh, I can't go to Whiterun or whatever yet because I'm only level 4. I need to fight some mudcrabs. Teh imershun.".
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
1,876,743
Location
Glass Fields, Ruins of Old Iran
using requiem says git gud AHAHAHAHAHAHA , get fucked.

You laugh on the outside, but I know that you cry on the inside, scrub.

What freedom? The player won't be able to go there anyway because they'll die.

Freedom to go there and die if he wants to.

:troll:

But really, it's important that you're able to be in over your head sometimes. You can :dance: and come back later or drill your way through with the power of cheese. Yeah, it would be ideal if the game didn't have many DO IT NOOOOOOOOOW quests forcing you to do this often, but it is what it is. I don't think it's worth creating content gates in a (mostly) open world game for the sake of NPC dialogue.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
But really, it's important that you're able to be in over your head sometimes. You can :dance: and come back later or drill your way through with the power of cheese.
Then why doesn't the player have the "freedom" to go and fight Alduin from the start? My point is that content gates are already there. Might as well add a few that make sense and keep the game from feeling broken with requiem. There will always be other powerful enemies/dungeons that player can run from aren't story/quest line specific. It'd also solve the problem of level 15 fighters becoming the head of the mages' guild, but that's another matter.

But then again, I suppose it wouldn't be a mod by spergs for spergs if it didn't feature asinine design decisions that demand grinding and/or cheese.:M
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
You'd still have to grind to get gold to pay the trainers, dunce. And you can only train a certain amount per level IIRC.

edit: I'm talking design theory here, not looking for strategies for a mod I no longer use on a game I no longer have installed. You can just admit what I'm saying is a better idea than what requiem has and shut up now.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

baturinsky

Arcane
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
5,623
Location
Russia
3140945_b2999b79c52f6f8268996964813e26ae.jpg

Rustam Tashbaev (on right) deported to USA for "Maidan-3" organisation.
Other "Maidan-3" participants were captured by people in balaklavas, their current whereabouts unknown.
http://www.tvc.ru/news/show/id/70121
EDIT: Sorry, wrong thread
 
Last edited:

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
Adding more content gates is never a good idea, no matter the circumstance. Git out of here and come back when you have a gud idea that doesn't smell suspiciously like level scaling.
It's the exact fucking opposite of level scaling. Level scaling is all about letting the player go anywhere at any point without it being difficult. This is about not letting the player experience certain quests. It's also a feature from Morrowind Bethesda removed because level scaling made it pointless and because it was too hardcore for the milkfed console crowd who want to go anywhere and do anything without thought to the character they've built. It's not ideal - ideal would be a completely non-linear game with good writing - but it's the best way to compensate for Bethesda's shit quest design.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
1,876,743
Location
Glass Fields, Ruins of Old Iran
It's slightly better than level scaling because at least it's not as glaringly obvious that the world revolves around the PC, but they're both methods supposed to keep the player from meeting foes that will easily cave his face in early on. Instead of deciding for me when I'm able to safely enter the Cave of Silent Rapes, let me peek my head inside and I'll decide if I want to turn back or Leeroy Jenkins my way through.


I believe that's a photo of the Thalmor embassy, but I don't recognize the ENB. Crazy graphics.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
It's slightly better than level scaling because at least it's not as glaringly obvious that the world revolves around the PC, but they're both methods supposed to keep the player from meeting foes that will easily cave his face in early on.
Nope. I'm all for letting the player die for not looking ahead. I just want certain quests gated until the player has a snowball's chance without massive grinding and or cheese because said quests are given with a lot of urgency and not with a Cassius Cosades style "hmm, you might want to wander around and level up first". It just doesn't work well in a non-level-scaled environment like Requiem to have the player be able to receive the top guild quests at level 6. There are plenty of dungeons and side quests that don't have urgency and I'm all in favor of some of them being high level quests a n00b should run from.

Also, I just hate that a low level player can make it so far up the ranks of these guilds without any skill requirements. It's pure decline. FFS requiem bills itself as a hardcore rpg experience and there's no guild progression skillchecks, wtf?
 

Gnidrologist

CONDUCTOR
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
20,934
Location
is cold
>grinding

"He doesn't know about trainers!"

"By the Madgod, what a dweeb!"
I don't know if that is changed in requiem, but you can train only 5 skill points per level so grinding it is. Especially once your level gets higher and it takes more and more total skill points to reach the next level.
 

whatevername

Arcane
Joined
Sep 2, 2013
Messages
666
Location
666
Nope. I'm all for letting the player die for not looking ahead. I just want certain quests gated until the player has a snowball's chance without massive grinding and or cheese because said quests are given with a lot of urgency and not with a Cassius Cosades style "hmm, you might want to wander around and level up first". It just doesn't work well in a non-level-scaled environment like Requiem to have the player be able to receive the top guild quests at level 6. There are plenty of dungeons and side quests that don't have urgency and I'm all in favor of some of them being high level quests a n00b should run from.

Also, I just hate that a low level player can make it so far up the ranks of these guilds without any skill requirements. It's pure decline. FFS requiem bills itself as a hardcore rpg experience and there's no guild progression skillchecks, wtf?
Go ahead and add level checks for the quests, it's so easy a caveman can do it.
 

Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
Given the shortness of the guild quest-lines and the fact that Requiem de-levels Skyrim anyway, wouldn't it be easier and better to just make sure that the very early guild-quests only end up in locations/chests/with enemies that are suitable for the lower end of the level-range?
In principle I don't see anything wrong with content gating based on skills, if done right - it's the equivalent of the quest giver saying that this is no work for a wimp who's still wet behind the ears, but esp. in Requiem it can be a bit difficult to predict what enemy will be easy or hard just based on one or two skills.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
Edit: fine, then add level checks too. Requiem doesn't have a lot of fluff skills like Morrowind did. It's pretty unlikely that someone will have 100 alchemy and 0 everything else, so even just checking one skill and the player level should be enough. It may not garuntee an easy fight in requiem, but it's better than nothing.
I'm not the one who wants a dumbed down Requiem.
I think you don't know the meaning of dumbed down. Letting all players progress to the top of all guilds regardless of skills is dumbed down. Letting a fighter with almost no magic specilization be the arch mage of the mages guild is dumbed down.

Geez. I bet that if in the future Bethesda RPGs would chew your food for you and read you bedtime stories, you'd be thinking that's hardcore too.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
Nah. I'm sick of lvl>9000 RPG heroes that can tank Chicxulub class asteroid impacts with their bare dicks because HP. If you catch a huge 2h hmmr from an overhead swing squarely in the face you should be dead.
Requiem does that without robbing you of the feeling of power connected to leveling up.

I'm not advocating for unkillable heroes, I'm talking about doing more sensible damage here. Losing half my health in one hit, sure, why not - it's still an oh shit moment, but at least one I might still turn around if I do it right.
Well, being one-shotted lets you know you did it wrong.
I'm not a fan of wailing on HP walls and not being one-shotted would in some cases be drastic change - for example for a ranged character (both player and NPC) a need to shoot every target at least twice will likely mean getting killed.

Being one-shotted so often is bullshit difficulty territory, imo.
Only if you can't avoid it.

Potions are still very valuable as they reduce damage and help avoid secondary effects. Try facing a vampire with cryomantic spells with and without resistances if you don't know what I mean. Also, try getting protective gear.
I don't see anything wrong with an anyway expensive potion that can give you a temporary boost that will give you an actual survival chance against a strong magic user - but for this you need at least 50%, maybe 75% and more from this potion. Everything below that is not going to help - just do the math.[/quote]Depends. Against continuous damage every little bit helps and this is the kind of damage that's the most difficult to dodge when trying to close the distance. Same with secondary effects, like getting iced over.
Protective gear is obviously very valuable, I don't deny it, but it's also rather common.

Dont use requiem have some decency and compile yourself a nice list of mods that does everything you want
Why?
Also , dont write like a retard , unless you cant help it .

If you catch a huge 2h hmmr from an overhead swing squarely in the face you should be dead.
Skyrim has no location damage.
Overhead swing which is the typical power attack leaves little ambiguity regarding hit location, though.
In other words: it's fixable, but the requiem dude would need to gate content behind skill checks, or at least give the player a choice by warning them beforehand. Kinda difficult to do in a game with full voice acting and lip syncing.

The game uses stages to progress quests, I guess he could just halt progression until you have achieved a certain level of power(checking raw stats or the bullshit statistics like fame, renown and the like). So the Whiterun tower isn't attacked as soon as you retrieve the stone plate, for example.

The problem here is that some quests in quest chains are tightly coupled with dialogue/setpieces. For example when you deliver the stone the conversation with Farnegar is written as being interrupted by the news of the attack. You can't really separate those two quests in a graceful manner, neither can you delay player being sent to BFB. The only semi graceful way would be adding a note from a "Friend" (Delphine) dropped somewhere or delivered by a courier urging player to delay the quest in order to not get killed, but it would need some good stated reasons. Alternatively maybe something could be done to delay your Whiterun entry (either the first one or the one with the stone).

Guild questlines should be more malleable.

I am deeply butthurt about only being able to buy half a level per level.
:M
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
Because an overhead swing has to hit the head. Could never graze the front of the chest or hit the shoulder. Could never be blunted or deflected by a helmet either. And the best part is they are usually lethal even when blocked.

I wonder why there is any other kind of attack when an overhead swing is clearly the best. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that the militaries of the world should never have wasted time with bombs, guns and bullets when all they had to do was teach their soldiers to overhead swing.
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
Because an overhead swing has to hit the head. Could never graze the front of the chest or hit the shoulder. Could never be blunted or deflected by a helmet either.
Given how much of a PITA trying to implement locational damage as a mod is, simply going for the worst case scenario is much saner.

And the best part is they are usually lethal even when blocked.
Wut.
I wonder why there is any other kind of attack when an overhead swing is clearly the best.
Because an overhead swing is an awfully nice way to get killed.
:M

Overall I rate your post :retarded: out of :hmmm: .

It's slightly better than level scaling because at least it's not as glaringly obvious that the world revolves around the PC, but they're both methods supposed to keep the player from meeting foes that will easily cave his face in early on.
Nope. I'm all for letting the player die for not looking ahead. I just want certain quests gated until the player has a snowball's chance without massive grinding and or cheese because said quests are given with a lot of urgency and not with a Cassius Cosades style "hmm, you might want to wander around and level up first". It just doesn't work well in a non-level-scaled environment like Requiem to have the player be able to receive the top guild quests at level 6. There are plenty of dungeons and side quests that don't have urgency and I'm all in favor of some of them being high level quests a n00b should run from.
Have a :bro: for this one, though.

FFS requiem bills itself as a hardcore rpg experience and there's no guild progression skillchecks, wtf?
Requiem is a mod, and mainly mechanical one at that. It has to work with what's given. If the original script doesn't contain a way to tell player "no, you suck", then there is no reasonable way of limiting player's progression if they do suck. It's still better than LS.

Given the shortness of the guild quest-lines

The shortness of questlines is the main problem here. Even if you did that you'd run out of low level content way before you'd level up substantially.

Guild questlines, at least should possible to fix by replacing single radiant quests with blocks of them and sticking some wherever two quests don't follow directly from one another, but the MQ is pretty much fucked.
 

Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
Well, being one-shotted lets you know you did it wrong.
I'm not a fan of wailing on HP walls and not being one-shotted would in some cases be drastic change - for example for a ranged character (both player and NPC) a need to shoot every target at least twice will likely mean getting killed.
Well, maybe you are just doing it wrong then? :smug:


Against continuous damage every little bit helps and this is the kind of damage that's the most difficult to dodge when trying to close the distance. Same with secondary effects, like getting iced over.
Protective gear is obviously very valuable, I don't deny it, but it's also rather common.

The problem is the insanely high damage of mid and high-level magic spells. Spells that drain ~125 health per second or can do well beyond >300 damage in one hit (and are essentially unavoidable once the enemy has spotted you) are not significantly affected by a potion that gives 15-20% magic resist. The effect is simply too low.
Low level spells OTOH are often low enough in damage that they are survivable even without resistances.
For resistances to make a difference, you usually want >50%, often at least 75%. Good luck reaching that without a base resistance from items.
With Requiem, it's all or nothing. (Exceptions apply)

It comes down to magic being comparatively overpowered in Requiem, though. Melee damage scales much more reasonably for the most part.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom