Interview Info about Torment's Tides and Combat at VG247

[CWagner]

PB sounds fine even though I'd prefer TB. And thanks to everyone explaining WTF PB is.

 

[l3loodAngel]

Interesting that Colin doesn't mention the option of turn-based combat at all...

Probably they don't expect it to win in the voting. Guess it will be down between RTwP and phase-based. Hopefully the Codex will make a difference...

I suspect they'll choose PB as a compromise.

PB is the same TB, but with a different name as I understand.

 

[Infinitron]

Interesting that Colin doesn't mention the option of turn-based combat at all...

Probably they don't expect it to win in the voting. Guess it will be down between RTwP and phase-based. Hopefully the Codex will make a difference...

I suspect they'll choose PB as a compromise.

PB is the same TB, but with a different name as I understand.

No. Read the thread.

 

[Globbi]

If alignment is represented by color, there is a maximum of three alignment axes possible.

https://www.google.com/search?q=rgb cube&hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1C1AVSX_enUS421US421&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=bRs9UZvnKujC0AHY4IHIBw&ved=0CDAQsAQ&biw=1214&bih=635

It's cute that you are trying to be smart but you don't seem to understand how axes work. 3 axes would mean 9 possible "alignments". That is only when considering extreme cases, if we take middle points of each axis too then we would have many more cases. Just like good vs evil is 1 axis (that could be pictured as "brightness axis" between black and white) and can represent: good, neutral and evil. D&D tried to have 2 axes with good-evil and lawful-chaotic but it always ended up being treated as 1.

Having colors represent something has nothing to do with number of axes. You can have millions of different hues representing different axes and you would move on them by changing either brightness or saturation (or both, making 2 axes from each of those hues). The only thing you answered in your post is how many axes are needed to represent colors.

Tides in current form apparently have 5 one-sided axes (with no negative values) but only extreme cases are taken into account. I love both the possible outcomes and the graphical representation by colors. It is possible to make projection of those 5 numbers on 3-dimentional space, thus getting 3 numbers and not losing any information, but there is no reason to do so.
_________________________________________________________________

To address turns vs phases, you guys have to understand that they can mean the exact same thing or completely different. Turns can be made simultaneously or not. They point mainly on regulated flow of time in discrete points. Phases are more general term. You can have turns inside phases or phases inside turns.

Instead of focusing on what games used turn based or phase based system we should try to understand what is the planned system in T:TON.

As I understand the planned system is phase based but time flow is continuous inside those phases - so this would be like autopause every few seconds in IE games (sounds awful, but those games were not designed to have good gameplay with autopause every turn). Closest example of game designed for this of s Frozen Synapse, where you have phases that are time frames (and those phases are called turns anyway, which is completely fine and does not change anything) and during them you can do anything that would fit in those time frames.

 

[Infinitron]

Full interview has been posted on VG247: http://www.vg247.com/2013/03/11/torment-tides-of-numenera-what-does-one-life-matter/

Updated OP.

EDIT: Notice that they've rephrased their words slightly. Now, instead of "phase-based combat" they're saying "phase-based turns". And there's also a mysterious "third mechanic".

Whether this combat system relies on phase-based turns, a ‘pause’ system or a third mechanic, the decision will rest with the gamers. InXile is allowing its Kickstarter backers to vote on what form Torment’s battle mechanic will take. It’s a refreshingly diplomatic answer to a difficult question.

 

[Lancehead]

It’s a refreshingly diplomatic answer to a difficult question.

It's an unnecessarily diplomatic answer to a question that shouldn't difficult.

 

[Kalin]

Hopefully they will add an on/off switch in the options menu for that handholding text colouring.

 

[Infinitron]

Hopefully they will add an on/off switch in the options menu for that handholding text colouring.

What text colouring?

Are you referring to the colours of the Tides? The fact that the Tides have colours doesn't mean dialogue choices related to them will have colours too.

It's more like how the Virtues in Ultima had associated colors. It had nothing to do with text.

 

[hiver]

Damn, some of those questions were things that I wrote up earlier today.

Sounds good though. Seems I was right in suspecting the Tides are basically a more complex (or nuanced) alignment system, though I really want to hear more details on precise combat mechanics (and non-combat mechanics for that matter). Torment, all good writing aside, had pretty poor combat and non-existent non-combat skills, and I'm curious to see if either will be significantly expanded on, or if the goal is to make an RPG where C&C is more just a matter of what story path you pick rather than what your character abilities you have. I know that I would love to see some more creative ideas though - like failing a combat encounter leading to a different quest outcome, or not being able to pick a path you agree with morally because your skills aren't up to the task.

Some other RPGs have done that in the past, such as saving NPCs before they are killed. But Torment, with its "unique" death mechanics, could do something completely different in this respect. Not only could you have the story change if you lose a fight (say, a town is overrun by insane cultists), but you could actually have the death state/maze that the devs have hinted at actually change based on how well you do. Maybe if you die at the hands of a certain enemy, that enemy will become an antagonist in your death-realm, for example.

Just saying, with the pedigree of Torment as well as the opportunity to be completely batshit crazy with setting, characters, and even fundamental RPG concepts like failure and win states, there is tons of room for exploring ideas that we have not seen before. The worst thing Torment can do more than anything is play it safe, or "just" do what the original game did.

Well, nothing else for it but to do a interview for gamebanshee and slily ask them these things.

Pretty good ideas and it would be great to have features like these.
Im not really sure is the whole non-death mini game when you "die" necessary. It reminds me of Prey too much, at this stage, and that one got really boring after a while. Additionally while Prey had some excuse of why is such a thing possible, PST had a very, very, very good reason for it.

I cant see what in being bio engineered and vat grown or cloned body makes you incapable of dying.
Would like to hear if there is any explanation for that.

 

[Kem0sabe]

TB is the only way damn it! but it's even better if i can avoid all combat.

 

[Kalin]

Hopefully they will add an on/off switch in the options menu for that handholding text colouring.

What text colouring?

Are you referring to the colours of the Tides? The fact that the Tides have colours doesn't mean dialogue choices related to them will have colours too.

It's more like how the Virtues in Ultima had associated colors. It had nothing to do with text.

Teaches me to skip through the text, somehow tought they would actually colour dialogue choices.

 

[MurkyShadow]

I vote for Bard's Tale style combat:

Spoiler

 

[Kirtai]

I cant see what in being bio engineered and vat grown or cloned body makes you incapable of dying.
Would like to hear if there is any explanation for that.

Brother None mentioned that you don't spend all your time in your "own" body, which opens up a range of possibilities for death of the body not meaning death of the self.

 

[hiver]

I cant see what in being bio engineered and vat grown or cloned body makes you incapable of dying.
Would like to hear if there is any explanation for that.

Brother None mentioned that you don't spend all your time in your "own" body, which opens up a range of possibilities for death of the body not meaning death of the self.

Thats actually a good idea. That would make it connected with the whole plot narrative in a plausible way.



As for combat... while i can visualize how RtWP or Turn Based could or should look in execution... i have no idea how a Phase Based combat could actually go.
I mean - i know what it is and i have seen some implementations of it - which i hated, because most of those were blobbers which i hate, being all first person and positioning of team members being non fucking existent.
Frozen Synapse looked much better to me but... i hear it has its own ups and downs, which i havent tested myself so i can only rely on outside commentary about it.

So i cant really form any sort of opinion of PB, especially of Torment possible implementation of it until i see some sort of gameplay with it visualized in some manner.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Phase based would be fine. Brother None please rig the vote!

*updated my Brother None tag*

 

[MasPingon]

I'm really concerned about all the fuss with PC 'gender'. Reading all the comments on InXile site there is a whole bunch of people who would gladly trivialize Torment theme with political correctness, gay sex, hair types and talking shit about equality between sex types. I wonder how devs will get out of this, cause if they want to please everyone I'm afraid Torment will no longer be a game about searching for universal truths and values, but some freaky interactive Harlequin

 

[hiver]

Ill take care of it.

 

[undecaf]

As for combat... while i can visualize how RtWP or Turn Based could or should look in execution... i have no idea how a Phase Based combat could actually go.
I mean - i know what it is and i have seen some implementations of it - which i hated, because most of those were blobbers which i hate, being all first person and positioning of team members being non fucking existent.
Frozen Synapse looked much better to me but... i hear it has its own ups and downs, which i havent tested myself so i can only rely on outside commentary about it.

So i cant really form any sort of opinion of PB, especially of Torment possible implementation of it until i see some sort of gameplay with it visualized in some manner.

I'd imagine their phasebased would be something fairly simple -- like, two or three basic actions ("move", "attack", "evade", "spell", or something) per phase per character. I think of something similiar to how combat worked in the WL2 video but with pre planned moves. And I'd probably be fine with that. Probably.

I don't think they'd go for something as "random" and complex as Frozen Synapse (given their "agnosticism" about what kind of combat system they will eventually use -- and their intention to make combat fun ).

Alas, I think RTwP will be voted winner for the decline (the only one I'd consider such so far).

Would nice to know some details about what's the "phasebased" like that they're thinking about.

 

[sea]

I'm really concerned about all the fuss with PC 'gender'. Reading all the comments on InXile site there is a whole bunch of people who would gladly trivialize Torment theme with political correctness, gay sex, hair types and talking shit about equality between sex types. I wonder how devs will get out of this, cause if they want to please everyone I'm afraid Torment will no longer be a game about searching for universal truths and values, but some freaky interactive Harlequin

I think the idea is just that people want to be able to role-play "themselves." I'm not sure choice of gender has much connection to stuff like romance. Rather it's more just a way of feeling more connected with the world and seeing how characters in it might treat you differently. Nothing wrong with being able to play a female character if you want to, especially if the game acknowledges it.

 

[Brayko]

I think InXile knows better not to turn into Bioware.

 

[Kirtai]

I suspect they're positioning themselves as distinctly different from Bioware to capture a different part of the market. Becoming bioware-lite would cost them a ton of customers and goodwill and put them in direct competition with Bioware on their turf.

 

[MicoSelva]

I prefer phase-based (or, even better, turn-based) to RTWP, but I can live with the latter too. This game won't be about combat, but if they manage to make a comparable narrative AND better combat than PST, we would get a real champ here.
We'll see about that, though.

 

[Brayko]

Yeah that would be a nice touch, combat that's largely avoidable but at the same time tempting because it's so damned fun.

 

[Visbhume]

I'm really concerned about all the fuss with PC 'gender'. Reading all the comments on InXile site there is a whole bunch of people who would gladly trivialize Torment theme with political correctness, gay sex, hair types and talking shit about equality between sex types. I wonder how devs will get out of this, cause if they want to please everyone I'm afraid Torment will no longer be a game about searching for universal truths and values, but some freaky interactive Harlequin

It is clear, at least to me, that sempiternal posthuman demigods who are used to switching bodies like we change jackets and prowl a far future in which every conceivable permutation of experience has been tried thousands of times must be staunchly heterosexual and stalwart defenders of traditional gender roles.

 

[Infinitron]

I'm really concerned about all the fuss with PC 'gender'. Reading all the comments on InXile site there is a whole bunch of people who would gladly trivialize Torment theme with political correctness, gay sex, hair types and talking shit about equality between sex types. I wonder how devs will get out of this, cause if they want to please everyone I'm afraid Torment will no longer be a game about searching for universal truths and values, but some freaky interactive Harlequin

It is clear, at least to me, that sempiternal posthuman demigods who are used to switching bodies like we change jackets and prowl a far future in which every conceivable permutation of experience has been tried thousands of times must be staunchly heterosexual and stalwart defenders of traditional gender roles.

burn that strawman bro