Is Dark Souls overrated?

[Mozg]

They're very competent action games with some cool Metroidish exploration stuff and well-curated difficulty (compare them to Dragon's Dogma, which I think is mechanically superior in a lot of ways but which requires you to constantly go out of your way to manage balance for yourself). I'm not a big fan of 3d action games without any metroidvania and/or RPG stuff so I'm not that big a connoisseur of DmC/Bayonetta type shit to compare it to those. Of course compared to Oblivion or Skyrim they're the risen Christ.

 

[Cadmus]

Posting in a retard thread.

OMG I CAM LIETARL WRITE ESAY WHY DARK SOUL SUX

- u need to remember thinx, lol japanese animes

 

[catfood]

 

[Grampy_Bone]

I actually think the multiplayer aspect is the most ingenious part of the series, and predicted we'd see more hybrid single player/multiplayer experiences in the future.

I know some people claim that invasions ruin the game, or refuse to play online because of them, but I always find them exciting and tense. The way that covenants interact with invasions and co-op is also really interesting.

I like when people informally declare a certain zone for duels. I like when players bow and attempt to play honorably. I like when players exploit honorable opponents and attack when they aren't ready. It's an experience you can't get anywhere else.

 

[Irenaeus III]

Mods, please move this thread about this shitty weeaboo action game to General Gaming. TYIA

 

[Mozg]

^^^ I only liked multi in DS2. At a sub-tryhard level it's not crippled by typical latency shit in a game where you aren't allowed to reject people with 300 ping connections, and there are lots of good, well-populated ways to play multi.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Also this

 

[tormund]

Also this

Gayness is a formidable weapon.

 

[burn_classic_rpgs_in_hell]

Dark Souls Combat is very flawed IMO, and that's for the following reasons:

1. The auto-lock system: Let's say you play with an XBox360 controller. So, clicking the right stick will enable the auto lock mode, which basically guarantees that you always look at your enemy. In that way, when your enemy moves, you are auto-corrected to look him again. The problem is that there is no way to move to the left independently from the enemy. So, if you try to move to the left to avoid the attack of an(auto-locked) enemy, you will stop facing him and the auto lock will force you to turn to the right to face him again (Consequence=you failed to avoid the attack).

Also, as I said before to set on/off the auto-lock requires to click the right stick which is a very uncomfortable "button" for often use. Even worse the unlock feature isn't instant, as it should.
Holding LT to lock and releasing for instant auto-lock whould be much more comfortable but yeah, no room for parry button then. (Also holding both LB + LT for auto-lock + block doesn't sound very comfortable either). A manual targeting system whould be ideal.

2. The Stamina system: In Dark Souls, when you roll, attack, or successfuly block an an enemy attack with a shield, you consume stamina. That system probably exists to prevents the players from either mashing the RB attack (if you consume all of your stamina attacking=you can't roll or block enemy attacks until stamina replenished) or to play safely sitting all the time behind a shield. The problem here is that the stamina bar is too short and using the shield consumes a lot of your stamina, leading to the constant need to getting away from the fight to refill your stamina. So you block two enemy attacks with your shield, you attack to him one or two times and then you backroll and wait for stamina to be replenished, then repeat the process 2 or 3 times to kill a regular enemy, it's rather tedious.

Suggestion: Implementing 2 seperate bars, one for for attack/roll and one for shield's endurance whould probably make the trick. It would also require the player to be aware of 3 bars (health,stamina,shield) and if you count the mana bar, we have now 4 different bars in the interface, which maybe looks kinda complex. But since you don't need to watch them all simulataneous (you can't use a sword, a magic staff and a shield all together), I don't think its a big deal.

3. Hit Detection (and the visual presentation of "being hit"): Some Poster already refered to the big hitboxes problem. There is also an issue especially related to the hit box of your character while rolling, sometimes you lose health while the enemy weapon don't touches you, or the opposite. The worst case was the battle with one certain boss from Dark Sous 2, namely

Spoiler

Dragonrider

whose vertical attack did me damage while I have rolled like 1 or even 2 meters away, it was that ridiculously bad!

It looked like this(image):

Spoiler

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Dark Souls Combat is very flawed IMO, and that's for the following reasons:

*snip*

1. Yes and no. The lock-on mechanic is meant to be a tool that you are supposed to know when to use and when not to. However the game does a poor job of teaching you this technique, leading most players to go lock-on all the time.

2. Totally disagree. Forcing the player to balance offense and defense is a great mechanic. Stamina drains quickly to encourage tactical use, but also refills quickly so you're not too punished. I agree that shield mechanics are not entirely explained to the player. Shields with better stability ratings consume less stamina when blocking. Using a greatshield or upgrading your shield can greatly reduce the stamina loss from blocking. Obviously this all factors into the stat system and balancing your weight load and character build. Shield builds need more stamina and load to handle heavier shields. Also, some enemies are specifically designed to foil shield builds by dealing huge stamina damage, forcing you to improvise or change tactics.

3. Agree, hitboxes in DS2 were borked.

 

[Akratus]

Also this

 

[Cadmus]

1. The auto-lock system: Let's say you play with an XBox360 controller. So, clicking the right stick will enable the auto lock mode, which basically guarantees that you always look at your enemy. In that way, when your enemy moves, you are auto-corrected to look him again. The problem is that there is no way to move to the left independently from the enemy. So, if you try to move to the left to avoid the attack of an(auto-locked) enemy, you will stop facing him and the auto lock will force you to turn to the right to face him again (Consequence=you failed to avoid the attack).

Inconsequential bullshit nitpicking plus it doesn't make the combat flawed, what the fuck. I can't even remember what you're trying to describe here. Besides, I played with KB and M so maybe don't control your games with a retarded children's toy, lolol. You don't need to use the lock-on too much, later into the game I was too lazy to press the button and did just fine.

2. The Stamina system: In Dark Souls, when you roll, attack, or successfuly block an an enemy attack with a shield, you consume stamina. That system probably exists to prevents the players from either mashing the RB attack (if you consume all of your stamina attacking=you can't roll or block enemy attacks until stamina replenished) or to play safely sitting all the time behind a shield. The problem here is that the stamina bar is too short and using the shield consumes a lot of your stamina, leading to the constant need to getting away from the fight to refill your stamina. So you block two enemy attacks with your shield, you attack to him one or two times and then you backroll and wait for stamina to be replenished, then repeat the process 2 or 3 times to kill a regular enemy, it's rather tedious.

C&C meng, if you play with a shield your attack power is lower thus the fights are more tedious. It looks like you'd prefer to be able to spam attacks more often because "lol the enemies respawn and I don't wanna fight them all the time". That's why you have the option to not use the shield and two-hit any random enemy. I played DS for the first time without any shield and just lunge-attacked everything and there was no tedium. The game lets you choose your play-style.

3. Hit Detection (and the visual presentation of "being hit"): Some Poster already refered to the big hitboxes problem. There is also an issue especially related to the hit box of your character while rolling, sometimes you lose health while the enemy weapon don't touches you, or the opposite. The worst case was the battle with one certain boss from Dark Sous 2, namely

Duh, the hitboxes aren't very good just like in practically any other game. Doesn't mean the combat is "very flawed" it just means sometimes you die to a shit hitbox. These arguments sound like something from a retarded 13 year old reddit poster.

 

[sullynathan]

You can develop your own tactics, strategies, movesets and all that shit. There's a reason why the more difficult bosses in the series are the ones with the greater amounts of moves that can catch you off-guard, so by this point the difficulty isn't an illusion.

Ok, now we are getting somewhere. Can you give examples of these bosses and explain why you think we can create our own tactics regarding them?

First, how far did you get in dark souls?

 

[Lacrymas]

First, how far did you get in dark souls?

I killed Sif and got bored.

 

[sullynathan]

First, how far did you get in dark souls?

I killed Sif and got bored.

You didn't fight artorias or any of the dlc bosses or even play scholar of the first sin, the best part of the series?

 

[belowmecoldhands]

Some players enjoy twitch and tension--action games. The kind where you can't fuk up without feeling the burn. I know I"ve enjoyed htem. So I understand, I think. I'm thinking of platformers and shooters in general with lots of patterns to figure out and timing-based actions and death being something you want to avoid. I know it's somewhat repetitive and not innovative since it's been around for decades, but you know sometimes things don't have to change to still be fun and that's ok.

(I think I enjoy strategy/management/builder/explore games more though.)

I think gamers have preferences. We're not all the same. I've seen it over and over and over again. Based on my own experience, I know it's easy to write about what I like. I know it when I see it, at least. I don't like to be told what I like--it's too pretentious--or told to like something I don't. But anyway, the problem is I also write opinions about things I don't like. And this is where a lot of arguments occur on the codex. In fact, this is the root of many arguments in many forums over different matters. When we write about what we don't like, we're mostly asking it to be something we do. It usually doesn't qualify as fact--and neither do the things we favor. So if I write about how much I don't like caramel ice cream and give explanations for it, I'm probably talking up my arse. I can try to use facts to support it, but in the end it's like cherry picking and it's unlikely to change anyone. Once in a while, we ARE right and science and innovation will change gaming, but I think it's uncommon. I also think these changes usually aren't universal. Gaming has many niches, so what applies in one will not apply in another.

So I might actually enjoy a timing-based action in a platformer but somebody else will hate it. Similarly I might enjoy exploring a map in the same manner as Zelda, but someone else will hate it. I might have a very uncommon preference and the vast majority of people will hate it. This doesn't mean everyting should be excused. It really depends on who you're making your game for? If you can establish the audience and what they want and reproduce it then do it if it makes you happy.

 

[Lacrymas]

You didn't fight artorias or any of the dlc bosses or even play scholar of the first sin, the best part of the series?

No, obviously, I think I mentioned this in my first two posts. You can explain why you think they are the best part though, and how you can create your own tactics instead of memorizing the pattern.

 

[Cadmus]

You didn't fight artorias or any of the dlc bosses or even play scholar of the first sin, the best part of the series?

No, obviously, I think I mentioned this in my first two posts. You can explain why you think they are the best part though, and how you can create your own tactics instead of memorizing the pattern.

Quick, somebody link that quote of VD's post about the retardation of non-euclidean geometry. I described how I created my tactics a few posts above but you're too much of a fucking retard to play a game without wanting it to be something else.

 

[Night Goat]

There are very few things that are both popular and good, but Dark Souls is one of them.

 

[Lacrymas]

Quick, somebody link that quote of VD's post about the retardation of non-euclidean geometry. I described how I created my tactics a few posts above but you're too much of a fucking retard to play a game without wanting it to be something else.

You "lunge-attacked everything"? Well, that solves all my problems with this game, it also means DS is not overrated and is the best game ever made. Silly me, it's been so obvious all along.

 

[Cadmus]

Quick, somebody link that quote of VD's post about the retardation of non-euclidean geometry. I described how I created my tactics a few posts above but you're too much of a fucking retard to play a game without wanting it to be something else.

You "lunge-attacked everything"? Well, that solves all my problems with this game, it also means DS is not overrated and is the best game ever made. Silly me, it's been so obvious all along.

It's not my problem you have brain damaged and are too fucked in the head to complain about having to remember an attack animation because you actually want to ride a bike with a mounted machine gun and kill space zombies otherwise the game is too boring and deterministic if you can't. Are you by any chance also perplexed how somebody could enjoy Age of Decadence even though it's a boring CYOA where you only guess what the GM wanted you to do and are too railroaded and prevented from role-playing your own xir goat fucker who only fucks bisexual goats?

Skyrim is for you, you can create your own tactics there.

 

[sullynathan]

You didn't fight artorias or any of the dlc bosses or even play scholar of the first sin, the best part of the series?

No, obviously, I think I mentioned this in my first two posts. You can explain why you think they are the best part though, and how you can create your own tactics instead of memorizing the pattern.

it would be easier to just watch the various ways people have beat the best bosses in the game.

he's butthurt. DS isn't all that hard.

 

[Declinator]

So Lacrymas, are there any games in the genre that satisfy you and/or don't rely on pattern memorization?

 

[Excidium II]

Yes

 

[tormund]

Dark Souls hit detection/hitboxes being considered too big or buggy comes as a news for me. I won't pretend that I played a lot of Nippon action games or action JRPGs, but compared to third person melee action games I played on PC like Rune or Severance, DS hitboxes felt like they were as if not more precise. Not to mention that they are far more precise to those from TES and Gothic games, where it feels like character has one of those personal shields from Dune movie around him.