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Is Dark Souls overrated?

Discussion in 'jRPG Weeaboo Discussion' started by MotherMachinae, Mar 28, 2016.

  1. tormund Arcane

    tormund
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    Dark Souls hit detection/hitboxes being considered too big or buggy comes as a news for me. I won't pretend that I played a lot of Nippon action games or action JRPGs, but compared to third person melee action games I played on PC like Rune or Severance, DS hitboxes felt like they were as if not more precise. Not to mention that they are far more precise to those from TES and Gothic games, where it feels like character has one of those personal shields from Dune movie around him.
     
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  2. burn_classic_rpgs_in_hell Literate

    burn_classic_rpgs_in_hell
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    [​IMG]
     
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  3. tormund Arcane

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    Man, you really owned him with that picture. I can't see him ever coming back to this forum after that. You are so brutal and hardass, and yet witty at the same time. Mods, please lock this thread now, it can't go on after that.
     
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  4. sullynathan Arcane

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    It definitely has better hitboxes than your average western arpg, I don't think it has better hitboxes than a pure action game though like DMC or God of war.
     
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  5. Raghar Arcane

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    There are no mods on RPGcodex.
     
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  6. Cowboy Moment Arcane

    Cowboy Moment
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    Honestly, the whole "pattern memorization" thing confuses me a bit. Souls bosses are generally quite slow and telegraph their attacks in very obvious ways, so beating them mostly comes down to timing, resource management, familiarity with your weapon moveset, and occasionally a bit of specific strategy. Most of them don't really have a lot of patterns to memorize, though obviously you'll eventually get better at one if you just keep grinding it, but that's true of literally anything you can do. Like, what bossfights are there in the series that actually demand a lot of memorization? Bed of Chaos?
     
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  7. Excidium II Self-Ejected

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    lol you wish
     
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  8. Lyric Suite Converting to Islam

    Lyric Suite
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    It is your fingers who are memorizing the move set, so to speak. It is really the same concept behind learning to play an instrument, or something like that. It is related to the way shmups work, instead in this case you are learning how to move around enemies and their attacks instead of learning how to navigate through bullet patterns.
     
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  9. Cowboy Moment Arcane

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    Yeah, but that's just learning to play the game in general, not memorizing specific boss attack patterns. You can generally memorize shmups quite well because they tend to be mostly static, while Souls enemy AI has a significant random element, and learning how to fight a boss has a lot to do with what the worst case scenarios are, rather than specifically memorizing every attack and how to deal with it - they're usually not that complicated and can be improvised through.
     
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  10. Akratus Self-loathing fascist drunken misogynist asshole Patron

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    If you don't like memorizing enemy attacks what are you doing playing videogames?
     
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  11. Makabb Arcane Shitposter Bethestard

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    Dark Souls is one of the better action rpgs, it's good for what it is and is not overrated.

    I usualy cannot stand other Arpgs like gothic, risen etc. But DS must be bretty gud if i like it.
     
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  12. Lacrymas Arcane

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    That's just the technique though, there's a lot more to playing an instrument than just moving your fingers fast. The muscle memory is just your very first fundamental. The mind state you are in while playing an engaging video game is mostly the same as when you are playing an instrument btw, this is a thing I've noticed for a while now and it's fascinating.

    Most (if not all) of the bosses in DS just have a predetermined pattern they go through, which is impossible to be known on your first go, unless you looked up videos. You are just going through certain maneuvers in response to that pattern once you know it, that's all. I don't think that even constitutes a tactic, it's very passive on your part actually. A few people have commented that that is what the action genre is about, and I'm on two minds about that. The already mentioned Severence: Blade of Darkness isn't like that at all, it relies very heavily on your own personal "skill", the mobs kinda react to you rather than the other way around, though that may be a false impression on my part. The question this raises is "are we satisfied with the action genre being what it is or do we want something more?", some people would probably say they are satisfied, and that's fine, but is it worth festering in the same mindset and design decisions for eternity? DS can be used as a jump-off point to try to find a different solution to the "action game question" and that's what I've been saying. You all complain about how the gaming industry is just stagnating and you want something good - that can only be brought in by change of the status quo (obviously the current one isn't working), but when we start discussing something seriously the threads devolve into flame wars, ad hominem attacks and name-calling. DS is overrated because people proclaim it's one of the best games ever made, but that's not true. It's simply good for what it is, elevated by the fact that it raises questions about the genre. Even though I'm not particularly drawn to action games, I care because this doesn't apply only to its own genre, questions about RPG design are also raised with DS and the current stream of indie and AA RPGs (some of them are on the right track) and we should be ready to answer them. It's either that or this industry and medium continues to stagnate until there's nothing meaningful left. And if you (general you) say that you don't care about any of this, then why are you on a forum dedicated to discussing video games and video game-related topics?
     
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  13. sullynathan Arcane

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    That's because those games have bad combat, gothic will be better if it played like dark souls.
     
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  14. Lyric Suite Converting to Islam

    Lyric Suite
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    Well, you can just say that shmups are like a puzzle, where as Dark Souls is like music with lot's of room for improvisation. The point is that getting good at the game isn't just about having mad twitch skills, and the game is able to maintain a consistent degree of challenge because every time you encounter something different you have to learn new things. Being able to master one boss doesn't necessarily mean you are going to steam roll on the next and so forth.
     
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  15. Akratus Self-loathing fascist drunken misogynist asshole Patron

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    I wonder what games DO do it right according to Lacrymas.
     
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  16. sullynathan Arcane

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    answer would be 0
     
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  17. Sothpaw Learned

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    All the Souls games are great and anyone who says they don't like them are just butthurt that the game made them ragequit.
     
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  18. Lacrymas Arcane

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    I don't get the significance of this question. Would something change if I were to truly say "none" or give specific examples of games I think do "it" (I don't know what "it" refers to) right? Why is this even about me?
     
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  19. sullynathan Arcane

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    If you said none, then everyone (or at least most of us) will think your criticisms are invalid because you would paint the picture that the genre is not for you.
     
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  20. Lacrymas Arcane

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    Why would they be invalid? My personal feelings or preferences don't have anything to do with the arguments I posed, so even if it were none and you dismissed them because of that, it would still be a veiled ad hominem that would ignore them rather than invalidate them. I see this thread won't go anywhere since you are just fishing for reasons to ignore the raised points, sooo so much for that, maybe the next one.
     
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  21. sullynathan Arcane

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    I took your criticisms seriously, that's why I didn't reply to the ones that I thought were sound. You still seem like someone who doesn't like the genre so I am sensing a lot of bias there plus you brought up story making me believe you're an undercover storyfag.
     
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  22. Lacrymas Arcane

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    Ah, k. I brought up everything that people praise about the game and I explicitly said that the narrative is not my main gripe. I said there is no plot, and that's true, but I also mentioned that this isn't always a bad thing. The only weird thing, like I remarked previously, is the choice you have to make at the end (just the fact that there is a choice presented, not the specific choice you are given), it clashes with the overall "style" of storytelling and is meaningless, but that's a minor thing and not worth dwelling on (although we could, but that would be a discussion for another thread and it would involve talking about coherence in style and logical leading of plot elements).
     
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  23. Kutulu Arcane Patron

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    Souls is completly based around melee combat, if you are a caster, or so shit that you have to farm or block all the time
    you cannot into Souls. Show me a single a game with melee combat remotely as good as DS, you cant, because it does
    not exist.

    The reason ds gets mentioned everywhere is because, swinging swords is fun but its shitty single button repetetive shit
    in 90% of all games that offer it....

    Ds is just an action game yes, its the best melee action game there is.
     
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  24. Sothpaw Learned

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    Calling it just an action game is selling it short. The exploration is pretty top tier in the Souls games as well.
     
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  25. burn_classic_rpgs_in_hell Literate

    burn_classic_rpgs_in_hell
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    Dark Messiah of Might and Magic has an (almost?) excellent combat system.
     
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