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Is Dark Souls overrated?

Discussion in 'jRPG Weeaboo Discussion' started by MotherMachinae, Mar 28, 2016.

  1. CptMace Self-Ejected

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    Dude Dark Souls 1 was just as fucked. The spider boss thing is there to remind everybody how fucked the hitboxes are.

    T'is ok, I still liked it though.
     
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  2. Reapa Doom Preacher

    Reapa
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    what is this console filth discussion doing in grpg?
     
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  3. Villagkouras Cipher

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    How can a game that defines a genre and creates a new recognisable term (souls-like games) be overrated?

    The effect of Dark Souls in gaming industry is not a matter of taste anymore, it's a fact. Take for example Iron Maiden in metal. Did their sound was 100% original? Of course not, they combined elements of metal, classic rock and punk, adding their personal touch. But they did it so well, they defined the genre. One may hate them, like Dark Souls, but a fact is a fact.

    So, no. Dark Souls is not overrated. Only someone with an self-overrated ego can try to say that.
     
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  4. Kahr Guest

    Kahr
    DAik0 SuLs iS bS3teSd CrBg eV4h
     
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  5. Cowboy Moment Arcane

    Cowboy Moment
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    Hitboxes are about the same in all the games - mostly very good, occasionally weird and glitchy. It just became popular to specifically bitch about them in DS2, so now retards with no ability to form their own opinion keep repeating it. Point in case, the gif with Pursuer's stab attack can easily be reproduced in DS1 by fighting super Ornstein.

    "JRPG-like arcade game" :lol:, wow. I don't normally reply to retarded shit on the Codex, else I would never stop typing, but this was just too precious to pass up. Anything else you'd like to tell us about antiquated game design, bro? Does it also upset you that you can't save every turn in games with TB combat? I mean, it's such bullshit artificial difficulty to force you to redo the whole encounter, right?

    Dark Souls doesn't take its design tropes from arcade games (not directly anyway), nor from JRPGs (which are predominantly not real-time, and feature random encounters rather than checkpoints/respawns, not that I expect you to grasp the difference), but from the likes of Super Metroid or Symphony of the Night, and has respawns for the same reasons those games do (incidentally also the reasons why System Shock 2 has them) - and just like them, it lets you bypass enemies in most circumstances. Have you even played any actual arcade games in your life? Any JRPGs? Your "analysis" is about on the level of retards on GameFAQs proclaiming TB combat to be outdated and unnecessary.
     
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  6. CptMace Self-Ejected

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    I already complained about shit hitboxes long before Dark Souls II was even a known project, so kindly go fuck yourself.
    Although, since you want to talk about Dark Souls, let's do it. It's Demon Souls, but in a very, very bland version. You get a high fantasy cliché world in place of the chtulhu inspired dark fantasy of DeS. You get all the tropes, Minas Tirith Anor Londo the fortified white stone city, the fortress full of traps with pendulum giant axes, the magical forest with magical walking trees, the ghost city...
    Needless to add it, but I'll still do, they managed to have a shittiest framerate than in DeS as well.
    Now, still like these games, they're better than most other action games. That's no reason to talk about "mechanical excellence" and whatnot.
     
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  7. Xenich Cipher

    Xenich
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    Maybe it is because I grew up many years before you kids, but I don't see Dark Souls as anything more than a 3d arcade game with RPG elements tacked on. The basic concept of play is no different than games 30 years ago.
     
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  8. Grimlorn Arcane

    Grimlorn
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    I think it's an online problem personally. I played DS2 offline and never had those problems with the hitboxes. But stuff like that always happens in PVP, so my guess is there is also a similar delay as well with the PvE aspect due to the always online nature of the game but I'm not sure. Could be a patch thing as well as I played the game when it was patched several times and not at release.
     
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  9. Cowboy Moment Arcane

    Cowboy Moment
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    Ok? In general, I'd agree with the opinion that DeS has the best art design in the series (the one aspect where it overshadows its successors), but it's not because of "Cthulhu inspired dark fantasy" or whatever - the aesthetics overall are quite close, Dark Souls is about as dark fantasy as DeS, with the sole exception of Tower of Latria. Which is an awesome looking location, but the others are much more vanilla, and sometimes just really dull, like Stonefang Tunnel. Shrine of Storms also stands out, but there's nothing particularly Lovecraftian about it.

    As for "mechanical excellence", which action game would you describe that way? The core combat mechanics of Souls games (not the character systems and whatnot, those are usually a mess) tend to be well designed and fair. They're long games with lots of content, so occasionally you run into some bullshit, but not enough to justify any real complaints, imo. The occasional busted hitbox in a Souls game hasn't caused half the annoyance as, say, the platforming in Ninja Gaiden Black or the shmup segments and QTEs in Kamiya games.
     
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  10. CptMace Self-Ejected

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    I guess you're right regarding the mechanics. They're not that much annoying. They're kinda annoying though. Especially for people like me who played the games on the PS first, and had to endure the awful fps drop in Blighttown.
    Though I think DeS is more lovecraftian that you make it seem to be. The whole worlds 2 - 3 - 5 are filled with psychos in what seem to be locations taken straight from hell. They feel like a journey into madness.
    The castle doesn't feel as deranged, but there's still something very uncanny in its atmosphere and the whole plot surrounding it, the phalanx is quite a monstruous thing imo.
    The 4th world is basically a crypt for the most part, nothing exciting there.

    In comparision, Dark Souls is about a curse, and people lose their mind as well yes, but it just doesn't feel like a journey through a tormented mind. Just a cursed regular high fantasy land.
     
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  11. sullynathan Arcane

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    I never asked to be part of this thread
     
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  12. Lacrymas Arcane

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    Exactly, it just takes these concepts and design and pushes it to an extreme, showing exactly where the weak points are and where we should be working to improve/change. It raises questions, which is good.

    To everyone who is quoting me - you either didn't read my responses previously or take my words out of context. What I meant by JRPG-like is the design tropes it uses, like grinding for incremental increases of stats which are used only for bigger numbers; respawns that are allegorical to random encounters in JRPGs, they just aren't random, you know exactly when they will pop up, they aren't akin to Metroidvanias because the respawns there allowed you to get to places you previously couldn't, which is a well-thought-out system; I've covered why it's an arcade game many times; etc. etc.

    About pattern memorization - memorizing something is the most basic mental process we can do, animals can do it too, that's why it allows so many people to bash their heads on a boss a bajillion times until they get it right. What it requires of you is to decipher the pattern the developers prepared for you to memorize, instead of developing your own tactics and strategies. The gameplay accommodates the lowest common denominator and, having the illusion of difficulty, makes people feel good about themselves, ergo popularity.

    I implore you (general you) to read more carefully and not jump to conclusions from taking words out of context.
     
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  13. Riskbreaker Arcane Patron

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    My experience is my own, and my experience of DS2's hotboxes is what I stated it to be. I shall repeat it as much as I desire. My opinion of DS2 was formed before that of general public began to swing in any particular way: I slogged thru it for around 20 hours despite preordering it and starting to play it on release, whereas I spent around 200 hours on first game 's console version and around 100 on its PC port.
    I can provide you with a pic of my related Steam stats if you so desire.
     
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  14. Akratus Self-loathing fascist drunken misogynist asshole Patron

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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    I get what you're saying, and you're absolutely correct. Your intelligence is much too vast for such an unintelligent game.
     
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  15. Dev_Anj Learned

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    Could you explain what this means? I didn't get it even though I've played several Metroidvanias before. This isn't a sarcastic question, I'm genuinely curious.
     
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  16. tormund Arcane

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    Lacrymas
    Why are you so intent on "proving" that Souls games are bad or that their fanbase is stupid in the first place? I'm under impression that they aren't your "type" of games to begin with, which makes your efforts look even weirder.
     
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  17. Lacrymas Arcane

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    Yes, let's resort to ad hominem attacks, that's always a good idea. I already listed the many good points of DS, the most important of which is that it pushes the boundaries of this particular design "line" and it starts bursting at the seams. We need to figure out where to go from here.

    You can exploit them for double jumps for example, to get to places where you couldn't, or use them in combination with gadgets you get after you encounter them for the first time etc. They recontextualize themselves in relation to the advancement of your character. I might be conflating 2D platformers with Metroidvanias though.


    I already mentioned multiple times that I don't think they are bad, quite the contrary.
     
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  18. Cowboy Moment Arcane

    Cowboy Moment
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    Obviously, a 30+ hour open-ended ARPG has respawns for the same reason a 20-45 minute arcade game restarts you at a checkpoint when you die. It's all been figured out by his superior intellect. :lol:

    The guy has very definite opinions on arcade games, despite obviously never having played any, so it wouldn't surprise me if the same were true for Metroidvanias.
     
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  19. Lyric Suite Converting to Islam

    Lyric Suite
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    You forgot the most Japanese part of them all:

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Akratus Self-loathing fascist drunken misogynist asshole Patron

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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    It's funny how they explain that design choice. The concept artist drew her with those tits, and he was so proud of his creation Miyazaki didn't have the heart to refuse it.
     
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  21. sullynathan Arcane

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    You can develop your own tactics, strategies, movesets and all that shit. There's a reason why the more difficult bosses in the series are the ones with the greater amounts of moves that can catch you off-guard, so by this point the difficulty isn't an illusion.
     
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  22. Kahr Guest

    Kahr
    Jajaja, tetas, muy cómico.
     
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  23. Lacrymas Arcane

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    Ok, now we are getting somewhere. Can you give examples of these bosses and explain why you think we can create our own tactics regarding them?
     
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  24. tormund Arcane

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    Speaking of atmosphere, Dark Souls is only game to come close to my first experience with Diablo 1. It's almost like fully 3D Diablo 1, in terms of its bleak & creepy dark fantasy atmosphere and environments. Which is probably why I liked even the indoors and underground areas more than most people did.
     
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  25. Sigourn Futa Lover

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    But will it blend?
     
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