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Game News Jagged Alliance 3 Released

POOPERSCOOPER

Prophet
Joined
Mar 6, 2003
Messages
2,761
Location
California
Seeing a lot of people comparing it to JA2, but I am not mad enough to expect that.

So how does it compare to Silent Storm?
I've only played brief amount but if you go to the JA3 thread in the tactical forum you will see numerous references of Silent Storm pop up. From what I played it feels pretty accurate on the combat side.
 

Strange Fellow

Peculiar
Patron
Joined
Jun 21, 2018
Messages
4,092
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
So how does it compare to Silent Storm?
It's very simliar, in that it's well made 3D tacticool goodness with environmental destruction, but it's also deeply, deeply unbalanced and suffers from a lot of boneheaded design decisions. Still, it's the first tacticool that bears the comparison since Sentinels came out.

So there are already dozens of mods on Nexus, any good ones that don't totally unbalance the game ?
I can highly recommend the pause mod, which should have been in the game in the first place.
 

Xzylvador

Arbiter
Patron
Joined
Sep 26, 2015
Messages
388
Location
The rich part of Europe
Divinity: Original Sin 2 Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
Never got an option to take Biff's diamond, which sucked.
I think you need to let him get enriched. Not sure since I saved his sorry ass. Should've just stayed back and watched the fireworks.
I saved his stupid ass too, with the idea of taking his diamond in payment; or shooting him if he didn't pay up. But this wasn't an option, the only option is "Happy to have risked my mercs for your stupid mistakes, have fun being a millionaire while I get nothing".
Grenade accuracy (even when fired from underslung launcher) being tied to explosives skill doesn't make sense. Actually, the whole explosives thing makes little sense. A cross-eyed merc with high explosives skills will launch grenades or rpg's more accurately and over double the distance than your best snipers.
In term of realistic, it actually make sense. There's people suck at gun (pistol or rifle) but magical with rocket launcher or grenade launcher. it something to do with delayed contact timing with rockets and grenades, recoil absorbtion, steady hands...
But the range and accuracy are simply dumb. There should be some chance to have a grenade bounce/roll before exploding; rpg's generally aren't aimed at people (certainly not with accuracy) and the range shouldn't be greater than what a sniper can hope for.

Another thing I wish for:
Maps should be bigger.
 

AndrewCC

Educated
Joined
Oct 25, 2018
Messages
87
Location
RO
I am someone who's played a lot of modded JA2 (the v1.13 mod) and a decent amount (1 or 2 playthroughs) of non-modded JA2.
JA3 is pretty on par with vanilla JA2, with allowances given to the 23 years between them, and doesn't hold a candle to JA2 v1.13.
I could not finish it because I don't like the ammo economy, and the XCOM scramble enemies get to do for free when combat starts just bugged me to no end.
I have hope mods will fix it.
 

cpmartins

Cipher
Joined
Jan 9, 2007
Messages
547
Location
Brasil
Seeing a lot of people comparing it to JA2, but I am not mad enough to expect that.

So how does it compare to Silent Storm?
I'm having as much fun with it as I did with all SS games and I really like the SS series, so take that as you will.
 

raeven

Educated
Joined
Aug 29, 2020
Messages
287
Never got an option to take Biff's diamond, which sucked.
I think you need to let him get enriched. Not sure since I saved his sorry ass. Should've just stayed back and watched the fireworks.
I saved his stupid ass too, with the idea of taking his diamond in payment; or shooting him if he didn't pay up. But this wasn't an option, the only option is "Happy to have risked my mercs for your stupid mistakes, have fun being a millionaire while I get nothing".
Grenade accuracy (even when fired from underslung launcher) being tied to explosives skill doesn't make sense. Actually, the whole explosives thing makes little sense. A cross-eyed merc with high explosives skills will launch grenades or rpg's more accurately and over double the distance than your best snipers.
In term of realistic, it actually make sense. There's people suck at gun (pistol or rifle) but magical with rocket launcher or grenade launcher. it something to do with delayed contact timing with rockets and grenades, recoil absorbtion, steady hands...
But the range and accuracy are simply dumb. There should be some chance to have a grenade bounce/roll before exploding; rpg's generally aren't aimed at people (certainly not with accuracy) and the range shouldn't be greater than what a sniper can hope for.

Another thing I wish for:
Maps should be bigger.

Keep playing. Some of the maps are huge.
 

Gregz

Arcane
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
8,677
Location
The Desert Wasteland
I am someone who's played a lot of modded JA2 (the v1.13 mod) and a decent amount (1 or 2 playthroughs) of non-modded JA2.
JA3 is pretty on par with vanilla JA2, with allowances given to the 23 years between them, and doesn't hold a candle to JA2 v1.13.
I could not finish it because I don't like the ammo economy, and the XCOM scramble enemies get to do for free when combat starts just bugged me to no end.
I have hope mods will fix it.

Thanks for the information. I wish there was a convenient way to keep abreast of mod development. Specifically, notifications as to when popular mods really take off, since that's what usually saves games like this. I guess I'll just delay playing JA3 for 6 months and check back then.
 

Levenmouth

Cipher
Joined
Oct 3, 2014
Messages
605
Location
Port Customs
Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
I am someone who's played a lot of modded JA2 (the v1.13 mod) and a decent amount (1 or 2 playthroughs) of non-modded JA2.
JA3 is pretty on par with vanilla JA2, with allowances given to the 23 years between them, and doesn't hold a candle to JA2 v1.13.
I could not finish it because I don't like the ammo economy, and the XCOM scramble enemies get to do for free when combat starts just bugged me to no end.
I have hope mods will fix it.
The scramble makes it really difficult to set up ambushes, but not difficult in a good way. Essentially you need to set all your guys to be on overwatch when the battle starts for them to engage the enemy as they scramble. That would be fine in itself, but the problem is when you have 6 mercs and all of them need to be set on overwatch on by one at the same time while the enemy is walking somewhere, it just becomes very difficult to manage. The fact that the overwatch animation prevents you from selecting other mercs while the merc is entering overwatch doesn't help either. You can't really StarCraft your way into it either.

It works for stationary enemies, it works for just quickly deploying a machine gun, but the issue is that if you set riflemen or whatever to overwatch an area, they can easily end up locked in overwatch just a few feet away from where the enemy is now and don't just miss the ambush, but the whole turn.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
Patron
Joined
Jan 12, 2004
Messages
11,640
Location
Black Goat Woods !@#*%&^
Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
The scramble makes it really difficult to set up ambushes, but not difficult in a good way. Essentially you need to set all your guys to be on overwatch when the battle starts for them to engage the enemy as they scramble. That would be fine in itself, but the problem is when you have 6 mercs and all of them need to be set on overwatch on by one at the same time while the enemy is walking somewhere, it just becomes very difficult to manage. The fact that the overwatch animation prevents you from selecting other mercs while the merc is entering overwatch doesn't help either.
Normally I endorse vanilla play whenever possible, but this mod makes things so much less annoying I have to recommend it.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
20,450
I am someone who's played a lot of modded JA2 (the v1.13 mod) and a decent amount (1 or 2 playthroughs) of non-modded JA2.
JA3 is pretty on par with vanilla JA2, with allowances given to the 23 years between them, and doesn't hold a candle to JA2 v1.13.
I could not finish it because I don't like the ammo economy, and the XCOM scramble enemies get to do for free when combat starts just bugged me to no end.
I have hope mods will fix it.
I hate this argument. Making things dumber and simpler and stupider because of passage of time is not OK.
It is just cope because you really wanted a new JA game and by now you are happy to get pear when you really wanted an apple because you know in other game series they got a stone statue instead of fruit (F2 to F3)
 

raeven

Educated
Joined
Aug 29, 2020
Messages
287
I am someone who's played a lot of modded JA2 (the v1.13 mod) and a decent amount (1 or 2 playthroughs) of non-modded JA2.
JA3 is pretty on par with vanilla JA2, with allowances given to the 23 years between them, and doesn't hold a candle to JA2 v1.13.
I could not finish it because I don't like the ammo economy, and the XCOM scramble enemies get to do for free when combat starts just bugged me to no end.
I have hope mods will fix it.
I hate this argument. Making things dumber and simpler and stupider because of passage of time is not OK.
It is just cope because you really wanted a new JA game and by now you are happy to get pear when you really wanted an apple because you know in other game series they got a stone statue instead of fruit (F2 to F3)

I just finished a playthrough of JA2 this year.

There is a lot to criticize about JA3. But one thing that it is not, is dumbed down compared to JA2. Not even close. If anything I would say it is far more complex.

JA2's strategic layer exists, but is basically completely vapid. It has the depth of tissue paper. Move mercs, build militia - that's it. JA3 has an actual strategy layer to the game with different types of operations that have different consequences.

Sniping is the only effective way to play the last third of JA2. In JA3, melee is perfectly viable, remaining stealthy is viable, shotguns are viable, explosives are viable, leveraging perk combinations is viable. Realistic? Not at all. But the variety and complexity of approaches is so much greater than JA2 that it is not even close.

JA2 has only a handful of quests, all of which lack actual dialogue trees and have only a few ways to play out. Quests in JA3 are far more complex, with branching dialogue trees that include interjections from the mercs you have, skill checks in dialogue and the world, and choices and consequences that are addressed at the endgame. None of which are present in JA2.

JA2 is one of my favorite games of all time. It is also far from perfect. I can understand a lot of the criticism of JA3. In many ways it feels closer in spirit to JA1 than to JA2. It makes sense to me that a lot of people would not like it and prefer a different style of game. I'm mixed about it myself, though generally positive.

But so help me, I'm not going to listen to someone who by their own admission refuses to play JA3 and who hasn't played JA2 in several years tell me that this game is simpler than its predecessor. I've been playing it's predecessor all year, and been playing JA3 now. This is just flat out wrong in so many objective dimensions that it's ludicrous.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
20,450
I am someone who's played a lot of modded JA2 (the v1.13 mod) and a decent amount (1 or 2 playthroughs) of non-modded JA2.
JA3 is pretty on par with vanilla JA2, with allowances given to the 23 years between them, and doesn't hold a candle to JA2 v1.13.
I could not finish it because I don't like the ammo economy, and the XCOM scramble enemies get to do for free when combat starts just bugged me to no end.
I have hope mods will fix it.
I hate this argument. Making things dumber and simpler and stupider because of passage of time is not OK.
It is just cope because you really wanted a new JA game and by now you are happy to get pear when you really wanted an apple because you know in other game series they got a stone statue instead of fruit (F2 to F3)

I just finished a playthrough of JA2 this year.

There is a lot to criticize about JA3. But one thing that it is not, is dumbed down compared to JA2. Not even close. If anything I would say it is far more complex.

JA2's strategic layer exists, but is basically completely vapid. It has the depth of tissue paper. Move mercs, build militia - that's it. JA3 has an actual strategy layer to the game with different types of operations that have different consequences.

Sniping is the only effective way to play the last third of JA2. In JA3, melee is perfectly viable, remaining stealthy is viable, shotguns are viable, explosives are viable, leveraging perk combinations is viable. Realistic? Not at all. But the variety and complexity of approaches is so much greater than JA2 that it is not even close.

JA2 has only a handful of quests, all of which lack actual dialogue trees and have only a few ways to play out. Quests in JA3 are far more complex, with branching dialogue trees that include interjections from the mercs you have, skill checks in dialogue and the world, and choices and consequences that are addressed at the endgame. None of which are present in JA2.

JA2 is one of my favorite games of all time. It is also far from perfect. I can understand a lot of the criticism of JA3. In many ways it feels closer in spirit to JA1 than to JA2. It makes sense to me that a lot of people would not like it and prefer a different style of game. I'm mixed about it myself, though generally positive.

But so help me, I'm not going to listen to someone who by their own admission refuses to play JA3 and who hasn't played JA2 in several years tell me that this game is simpler than its predecessor. I've been playing it's predecessor all year, and been playing JA3 now. This is just flat out wrong in so many objective dimensions that it's ludicrous.
So much cope lol.
What strategic depth?! It is same. You train, heal, repair , rest and defend controlled areas. (Or maybe all those options are only in 1.13 but I will get into that later). And in JA2 1.13 and vanilla you need supply routes from airfields so to bring in new stuff from Bobby.
Yes, JA3 has more RPG elements but how is that a good thing in a tactical team TB combat game? Are you on drugs? NuXcom put less of this shit in their games and Long War mods let you skip most of that shit. And first mods for Xcom 2 also speed up all cinematic shit.
Are you a storyfag as well?

And then combat, you admit it is gamefied trash and then put your fingers in ears and go lalalala like all other casual gamers here.
You are all same retards that defended Xcom 2012 and had 100 trash arguments that claimed it is just as good as UFO.
Just like then I cannot take any of you seriously now.

And now lets get back to 1.13.
This is The version of JA2, it has been around in mostly stable form since 2014. Other mods are made on top of 1.13, not vanilla. It kept JA2 alive for 20+ years.
Devs knew about it, they surely played it.
You cannot just ignore it and only compare JA3 to vanilla JA2. Even the aiming circle getting smaller was taken/influenced by 1.13.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
20,450
Yes, JA3 has more complex elements but they are not carbon copies of elements from that one game I like! Therefore they do not count and therefore the game is dumb and simple!
Best laugh of the day so far.
Thx for proving you are a retarded fanboy by completly missing what I said and writing your retarded shit.
Try again with real arguments, don't make a fool out of yourself.
 

raeven

Educated
Joined
Aug 29, 2020
Messages
287
What strategic depth?! It is same. You train, heal, repair , rest and defend controlled areas. (Or maybe all those options are only in 1.13 but I will get into that later). And in JA2 1.13 and vanilla you need supply routes from airfields so to bring in new stuff from Bobby.
You would know, if you'd played the game!
Yes, JA3 has more RPG elements but how is that a good thing in a tactical team TB combat game? Are you on drugs?
All the Jagged Alliance game are RPGs first. Always have been.
Are you a storyfag as well?
YES
And then combat, you admit it is gamefied trash and then put your fingers in ears and go lalalala like all other casual gamers here.
I said it wasn't realistic. I didn't say it was trash. I said it had far more variety and feasible approaches than JA2 ever did. Which it does.
This is The version of JA2
Which version? Which options? There are hundreds of features in 1.13 that aren't balanced against one another, and more keep getting developed with no stable version or sane set of default features in sight. I've played through 1.13 once, and I've played through vanilla several times. There is nothing 'definitive' about 1.13. Definitive is sort of against the entire design of the project.
You cannot just ignore it and only compare JA3 to vanilla JA2.
What else would you compare it to??? Why would you take a mod as the basis of inspiration? If you were to turn on all of the "features" (disease, drivable vehicles, ncth, spying system, food&water, LBE, etc etc etc etc) the game basically bears zero resemblance to vanilla JA2 whatsoever. Why would they base this game off a mod for an already niche game that is constantly adding new features and is basically a whole new game even between versions of itself?
Even the aiming circle getting smaller was taken/influenced by 1.13.
LMFAO that's in JA2 vanilla XD XD XD

But fine. Tell me that my enjoyment of the game is not real and just 'cope'. You're right, it's more likely that I am deluding myself into pretending I'm having fun, than actually having fun. How could I have missed it!
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
20,450
What strategic depth?! It is same. You train, heal, repair , rest and defend controlled areas. (Or maybe all those options are only in 1.13 but I will get into that later). And in JA2 1.13 and vanilla you need supply routes from airfields so to bring in new stuff from Bobby.
You would know, if you'd played the game!
Yes, JA3 has more RPG elements but how is that a good thing in a tactical team TB combat game? Are you on drugs?
All the Jagged Alliance game are RPGs first. Always have been.
Are you a storyfag as well?
YES
And then combat, you admit it is gamefied trash and then put your fingers in ears and go lalalala like all other casual gamers here.
I said it wasn't realistic. I didn't say it was trash. I said it had far more variety and feasible approaches than JA2 ever did. Which it does.
This is The version of JA2
Which version? Which options? There are hundreds of features in 1.13 that aren't balanced against one another, and more keep getting developed with no stable version or sane set of default features in sight. I've played through 1.13 once, and I've played through vanilla several times. There is nothing 'definitive' about 1.13. Definitive is sort of against the entire design of the project.
You cannot just ignore it and only compare JA3 to vanilla JA2.
What else would you compare it to??? Why would you take a mod as the basis of inspiration? If you were to turn on all of the "features" (disease, drivable vehicles, ncth, spying system, food&water, LBE, etc etc etc etc) the game basically bears zero resemblance to vanilla JA2 whatsoever. Why would they base this game off a mod for an already niche game that is constantly adding new features and is basically a whole new game even between versions of itself?
Even the aiming circle getting smaller was taken/influenced by 1.13.
LMFAO that's in JA2 vanilla XD XD XD

But fine. Tell me that my enjoyment of the game is not real and just 'cope'. You're right, it's more likely that I am deluding myself into pretending I'm having fun, than actually having fun. How could I have missed it!
I never said you are not having fun or that you should not have.
I am just challenging fangirls here claiming this is anywhere close in quality to 1.13 or even vanilla JA2 (at least combat).
But you basically admited that so I guess you can all stop pretending otherwise.
Be like SDS and be proud of playing casual games like D4 and spending 100$ on extra trash for it.
Just like many nuXcom fangirls were proud of playing their casual game
 

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