1eyedking Japanese games are shit. Here's why.

[Felix]

Noses are for the weak.

So do you have it, sis ?

 

[Black Cat]

Seriously now, i too kind of dislike the lack of noses. The problem is that it is pretty hard to actually draw a nose on an animation level character, that has to naturally be simple and fast to draw to ease the animating and the strain on the budget, or a character done on an style imitating such without it looking horrid. Given the obsession of the japanese with over-stylization and delicate, doll like appearances i can kind of accept it and move along.

But then i believe if you aren't at least slightly superficial there's something wrong with you, so i prefer the characters looking cool to the characters having noses. Sue me.

 

[SCO]

Ok, lets say a fantasy derivative western concept art : Morrowind.

Better than 99% of Nipponese concepts. Why? It takes a seriously fantasy zeitgeist and twists it around until a certain depth and variance are achieved. "Bretons" are the descendant of elves, "Dark Elves" are nomadic in origin and not at all a "evil" race etc.

Whoever said that Japan characters have no gravitas is completely correct. I mean we are not on roman times, where gravitas was your voting power literally and as it so often is a hypocritical thing, but i am not so dumbed down that i appreciate a game trying to cater to its target audience zone of comfort instead of the setting as it should behave if it was consistent. A Dumner teenager behaving like a emo jrpg protagonist when confronted by some rpg cliche, like the razed village? Moping around a while before meeting the wise mentor that sends them on a hero's journey to kick the villian's arse with a 5 similarly aged (adults are forbidden in the fantasy) party? It's impossible to even treat the thought seriously, they would go to the respective house seat, declare a bloodfeud and maybe hire the morag tong.

You may think this is silly, since they aren't even trying to do what i want, but i know you are a fan of Azrael's Tear, almost the antithesis of this narrative quirk (defect?) - it's up-&-down serious and integrated even if the premise is pure fantasy and stronger for it.

 

[1eyedking]

Haha LOL, except Morrowind concept art is shit. It's supposed to convey an alien feeling but for it resorts to...extraterrestrial stuff.



I can almost hear the art director spouting "We want to make the player feel in an alien world" and all the two-digit IQ 'artists' going for a pseudo Star Wars and WH40K look.

 

[SCO]

Let me say also that i really cringed at the Valkyrie profile "character development". They had this strong protagonist (a fucking valkyrie), with a rather awesome voice, obviously brainwashed, and of course, the "true" path turn hers into a simpering crying wretch over some pathetic true love thing.

It's like they can't help themselves.

 

[roll-a-die]

I still hate the big alien eyes,

Depends on the series. Death Note had fairly normal sized eyes, even on females.

nonexistent noses

Not quite non existent, but merely abstracted.

and stupid hair colors,

Again depends on the series, to go to death note again, you have very few people with weird hair colors.

I blame Disney.

As you well should, Disney had a hand in the fathering of manga.

 

[Achilles]

"Shitsux" will only get knee-jerk reactions and shouldn't really have a place out of GD.
Yeah, it's your opinion, but what sort of discussion do you think could come from "X is terrible shit, period"?

I really don't understand why you keep saying this. My complaints were:

1. Bad art direction. This is highly subjective and there's no way (that I'm aware of) to prove that a game has bad art direction.

2. Simplistic combat. I provided some reasons for that.

3. Bad writing. Even people who like japanese games admitted this to be true for the most part.

4. Silliness. I think this is pretty much self-evident and it is also apparent if you read some of the other threads of japanese games. Black Cat said something along the lines of "it's retarded but it's cool". What else is there to prove? Some people may enjoy this kind of thing. I don't.

5.Tasteless sex. Really, does this point need to be proven?

So please tell me, what kind of arguments would you like me to present?

 

[Jack]

My biggest issue regarding JRPGs are the graphical style and most often very limited character development.
Not that I have had much experience with such games.
Why do every game have to look like a anime?
Sure, I do appreciate imaginative characters, environments and art-styles.
Surely one can have such things without resorting to the "Yaay, its just liek in one of mah animees!" look?

Personally I feel that the decline have been just as strong overseas and that they never actually had an original art-style.

 

[mpxd]

Japanese games (and anime) are shit because a number of the things that their creators view as "must-have" components send me into a FROTHING RAGE.

Things like
1. Characters with an obvious dysfunction that everyone ignores. This includes characters that act like children but aren't really treated as such; characters that make completely idiotic decisions and don't suffer the consequences; naive/stupid characters who would not survive on their own in society.

2. Pedo-fetish. If it looks like a kid, talks like a kid, or, hell, even just sometimes acts like a kid, no, i don't want to see its panties.

3. Why should 2 even be necessary? I don't want to see _anyone's_ panties. Unless it's a strip club or bedroom or some place where they're _trying_ to show them to me.

4. Random, out-of-context events/actions. Yes, i get it, you're writing a story, you can put in a scene with the main character crossdressing. But he damned well better have a non-contrived reason for it. Alternately, you can hope that I find it funny, in which case you get a free pass. But do you really want to risk it?

5. Idiots. If i'm supposed to be guiding the protagonist through the plot, he better be the sort of person i'd like to keep alive. Same goes for the people he hangs out with. If you want to include idiots, make them optional.

I'm sure there's more, but you get the point. Do any of the above, and sets on, making your game instant shit. Avoid all of it, and your game gets judged on its merits. Same applies to western games; Fo3 [intelligence] killed it outright and ME2's ass-lingering camera almost did the same.

So, really, japanese games can be alright, it's just that the vast majority immediately get demoted to 'shit' status before i can even play far enough to decide whether the gameplay/story/whatever is half-decent or not.

 

[treave]

Using Haruhi as an example is really... not helping anyone's causes here.

That and Lucky Star make me rage. Goddamned moe cancer. Raaage.

Anyway...

1. Bad art direction. This is highly subjective and there's no way (that I'm aware of) to prove that a game has bad art direction.

Alpha Protocol. It is not so much subjective, but very rooted in cultural differences. As a rule, if it's not a dangerous procedure that infringes on basic human rights and causes physical and mental harm, there should be no need to stamp out on varying cultural tastes.

2. Simplistic combat. I provided some reasons for that.

Alpha Protocol. At least it's still turn-based, even if it may be simplistic. Also, others have presented examples of battle systems that actually require some thought. At any rate, one thing to mention about jRPG series is that they love to implement gimmicks to spice up their battle systems. Example: Judgment Ring system in Shadow Hearts, ATB for older Final Fantasy games.

Sometimes it works, most times it probably doesn't and fails horribly in an utterly craptastic mishmash of gameplay suck, but it doesn't stop them from trying to change things up... instead of regressing into popamole cover shooting combat or twitchy QTEs.

3. Bad writing. Even people who like japanese games admitted this to be true for the most part.

Alpha Protocol. Bad writing, again, is actually par for the course in video games. How many games have you played that had true depth in writing - or rather, do you play games for the writing?

4. Silliness. I think this is pretty much self-evident and it is also apparent if you read some of the other threads of japanese games. Black Cat said something along the lines of "it's retarded but it's cool". What else is there to prove? Some people may enjoy this kind of thing. I don't.

Alpha Protocol. Yes, well, if you only like grimdarkness then obviously the more light-hearted style found in many Japanese games would not be suitable for you. But to label all Japanese games as silly would be to label all Western games as serious. Do you need a list of dark, gritty Japanese games?

5.Tasteless sex. Really, does this point need to be proven?

Alpha Protocol. As mentioned earlier, show me a video game with tasteful sex. Besides the Leisure Larry series.

 

[made]

Western art direction > weeaboo faggotry, no contest!

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

 

[Jack]

 

[CrimHead]

Haha LOL, except Morrowind concept art is shit. It's supposed to convey an alien feeling but for it resorts to...extraterrestrial stuff.



I can almost hear the art director spouting "We want to make the player feel in an alien world" and all the two-digit IQ 'artists' going for a pseudo Star Wars and WH40K look.

......





























What?!

















No, seriously. What?!

 

[CrimHead]

Most Japanese games have bad art direction, this is true. What you're not saying, however, is how most Western games do as well. I think it's fair to estimate that about 95% of all video games ever made have totally uninspired art. Video games are, by and large, a lackluster medium, there's simply no getting around this. They have potential to be the most immersive form of entertainment ever conceived, but this ability is rarely realized to its fullest.

But not all Japanese games have bad art, to say otherwise would be extremely close minded. For instance, take a look at these screens, both from Silent Hill 3. Believe it or not, this is one of my favorite non-rpgs, if only for the incredible monster/level design.

 

[roll-a-die]

Just as a good point.

What's that about all Japanese Games all looking the same?

I can't find the western shooters graph that came out around e3, but I'd put it here if I could find it.

 

[Tycn]

Okay. How about, they all look retarded? (the animu, that is; Silent Hill channels Jap perversion into a noble cause)

 

[roll-a-die]

Okay. How about, they all look retarded?

Let me show you something,

 

[CrimHead]

Roll-a-die, I think you just crossed the line.

 

[Malakal]

And dont even get me started on SETTINGS in western games. Good Lord who art in heaven smite those who 'create' them...

How unexpected that you'd prefer the "original" wannabe-settings in JRPGs.

No, I dont prefer original-do-not-steal japanese settings, I value them for being different (unlike western run of the mill LOTR/WH40k ripoffs and whatever they can place as 'realistic').

Expressing my distaste for western art =/= favoring eastern.

 

[Tycn]

Let me show you something

No one is arguing that some Western art styles are as bland as fuck (though the last pic is a rather poor troll). But do you really prefer the gigantic eyes, disproportionate bodies and fixation with adolescents? Generic/boring graphics are relatively innocuous but anime shit actively detracts from a game.

 

[Malakal]

"Shitsux" will only get knee-jerk reactions and shouldn't really have a place out of GD.
Yeah, it's your opinion, but what sort of discussion do you think could come from "X is terrible shit, period"?

I really don't understand why you keep saying this. My complaints were:

1. Bad art direction. This is highly subjective and there's no way (that I'm aware of) to prove that a game has bad art direction.

2. Simplistic combat. I provided some reasons for that.

3. Bad writing. Even people who like japanese games admitted this to be true for the most part.

4. Silliness. I think this is pretty much self-evident and it is also apparent if you read some of the other threads of japanese games. Black Cat said something along the lines of "it's retarded but it's cool". What else is there to prove? Some people may enjoy this kind of thing. I don't.

5.Tasteless sex. Really, does this point need to be proven?

So please tell me, what kind of arguments would you like me to present?

1. True, very subjective.

2. Simplistic compared to what? H&S type of combat (as in DII)? D&D type of combat presented in BG series and later NVN? Or are You perhaps referring to ToEE, the only game that I can right now remember for having not simplistic combat. Cause ALL mainstream RPGs from the west offer nothing more than simplicity. Alpha Protocol, Dragon Age and Mass Effect to anme the newer ones. Not much better does West fare in strategy games.

3. Writing is always bad in games I can hardly reccomend ANY game for good writing award. But I dont play adventure games so perhaps I am wrong.

4 Siliness depends on the target audience. Do You think that GRIM and DARK is not silly? Oh hey, yes it is! So is space opera setting (ME) and most fantasy ones. Also they are retarded in how their creators try to explain why everything works as it does (Progenitors lololol, so much cliche and so little sense).
Also to us Japan as a whole is quite silly (que dozens of JAPAAAN! treads) so perhaps their siliness depends on what theya re accustomed to.

5. Western games either dont feature sex or it is as tasteless as in the east. But eastern games do soemtimes feature tasteful sex and even rape.

 

[Malakal]

Let me show you something

No one is arguing that some Western art styles are as bland as fuck (though the last pic is a rather poor troll). But do you really prefer the gigantic eyes, disproportionate bodies and fixation with adolescents? Generic/boring graphics are relatively innocuous but anime shit actively detracts from a game.

Lets start a shitstorm: just look at TNO, he has all the classic features of a jrpg hero. HUGE weapons (ingame player can pick others but on all the art he does have them), funny hair, tatoos, pointless accesories. Besides zombie as a character concept isnt very original too.

You can like Torment all You want but art really goes East there.

 

[roll-a-die]

Let me show you something

No one is arguing that some Western art styles are as bland as fuck (though the last pic is a rather poor troll). But do you really prefer the gigantic eyes, disproportionate bodies and fixation with adolescents? Generic/boring graphics are relatively innocuous but anime shit actively detracts from a game.

How; Other than in a xenophobic "it's different so I don't like it," way: How, does the art detract from the games?

The last pic was completely serious, the design is retarded. And has that useless accessorizing thing 1EK was talking about. Not to mention he looks like he's made of wood

 

[Tycn]

Oh, okay. I thought you were leveling a criticism at the actual game.

Verisimilitude. The storylines are generally fairly ludicrous already but in conjunction with the art style the whole thing feels patently ridiculous and generally juvenile. I'm sure there's the occasional game that is outlandish enough in content to make it actually work but overall it's not exactly conducive to creating a serious narrative. Even when the gameplay has its merits I find the style to be a detraction, I mean what the fuck is with the marching on the spot found in every second 'tactical' JRPG?