1eyedking Japanese games are shit. Here's why.

[SCO]

Many of the JRPG aesthetics evolved from graphical limitations of consoles (played on a tv, low speed machines) and a unholy mixture of the manga & anime "culture". In the case of running in place, i suppose it is something to save a little animation costs while still not having something completely static.

The chibi bullshit too.

 

[SCO]

I'm curious about some genuine nippon reaction to playing PS:T,

 

[treave]

NO CHIBI IS NOT BULLSHIT CHIBI IS CUTE

 

[Archibald]

I mean what the fuck is with the marching on the spot found in every second 'tactical' JRPG?

Number one reason why tactical jrpgs suck.

It`s kinda sad that some member have no other arguments than graphics are bad and shit art direction. Bunch of hatefull faggots with insecurities. Why are you even playing games if you don`t care for gameplay?

2. Simplistic compared to what? H&S type of combat (as in DII)? D&D type of combat presented in BG series and later NVN? Or are You perhaps referring to ToEE, the only game that I can right now remember for having not simplistic combat. Cause ALL mainstream RPGs from the west offer nothing more than simplicity. Alpha Protocol, Dragon Age and Mass Effect to anme the newer ones. Not much better does West fare in strategy games.

There is stupid belief that "movement" makes battles advanced.

 

[SCO]

NO CHIBI IS NOT BULLSHIT CHIBI IS CUTE

I'm almost 30 years old man. My tolerance for cute, or grimdark for that matter, is waning.

 

[Tycn]

It`s kinda sad that some member have no other arguments than graphics are bad and shit art direction. Bunch of hatefull faggots with insecurities. Why are you even playing games if you don`t care for gameplay?

If you actually read my first post you would've noticed it was in response to another post about graphics. Though it's kind of unsettling how you fail to realise that flooding your visual cortex with a massive overdose of faggotry might just detract from the game experience. I don't suppose you'd be willing to elaborate on how not liking caricatured, disproportionate adolescents makes one a hateful, insecure faggot?

Number one reason why tactical jrpgs suck.

That would be the fact that grinding generally supersedes tactics. Or do you have a Nipponic JA2 equivalent to unveil?

 

[Archibald]

If you actually read my first post you would've noticed it was in response to another post about graphics.

Why are you defending yourself? It`s not like i mentioned anyone by name. Oh yeah, probably because you are insecure.

That would be the fact that grinding generally supersedes tactics.

You grind if you fail at tactics. Many of them don`t even allow grinding. There are of course few games where grinding is sadly neccesary.

Or do you have a Nipponic JA2 equivalent to unveil?

This is just rich.

 

[Archibald]

I'm sorry you had trouble with the puzzles in Monkey Island - a game specifically designed for accessibility. I hear the new one has a quest compass.

It`s not like BC said that they were hard.

 

[Tycn]

If you actually read my first post you would've noticed it was in response to another post about graphics.

Why are you defending yourself? It`s not like i mentioned anyone by name. Oh yeah, probably because you are insecure.

...because you quoted me and the following sentence appeared to have been directed at my comment. Though do continue the psychoanalysis if you feel so inclined.

 

[Felix]

fun fact: most best selling games in Japan don't have anime art style, games with anime art style are considered niche except Dragon Quest because it's Dragon Quest.

 

[Archibald]

...because you quoted me and the following sentence appeared to have been directed at my comment.

Following sentence was on another paragraph.

Obviously couldn't work them out.

ME2 gameplay is basic, retarded and nonsensical. Obviously i failed to kill first enemies.

 

[laclongquan]

As if they will let facts stand in the way of preconception and prejudice

 

[Tycn]

Lets start a shitstorm: just look at TNO, he has all the classic features of a jrpg hero. HUGE weapons (ingame player can pick others but on all the art he does have them), funny hair, tatoos, pointless accesories. Besides zombie as a character concept isnt very original too.

You can like Torment all You want but art really goes East there.

No gigantic eyes, not fifteen, little relation to anime style. The similarities are secondary features which aren't in any way restricted to Eastern games. It's not the small boobs or masculine facial structure that makes a tranny, it's the dick in the pants.

 

[treave]

NO CHIBI IS NOT BULLSHIT CHIBI IS CUTE

I'm almost 30 years old man. My tolerance for cute, or grimdark for that matter, is waning.

Well, that only means that you aren't the target audience for cutesy grimdark games. Similar to Western games, most Japanese games are targeted for ages teens and up, and contrary to popular belief their middle-aged salarymen do not cry over Dragon Quest in public.

What they lack for "maturity" in art design they certainly make up for with personalities uniformly more memorable and better than what Bioware, the benchmark of mature and gritty characters here on the Codex, churns out.

Locke from FF6 >>>> Alistair from Dragon Age

 

[SCO]

Oh, don't mistake me, i played many chibi games, from snes rpgs to ffvii that i guess sorta qualifies.

But this:

is clear grounds for exterminatus.

Not speaking of the hideous characterization of course, that is a separate matter, that i trust i made my position clear on.

PS: i didn't play Dragon Age.
Nor oblivion.

PSS: I don't play new AAA games anymore. They're all shit.

 

[treave]

This is a duck. Note the super sugoii zippers on the hat.

Speaking of which, anyone know of any good Japanese indie games? Besides Cave Story.

 

[spekkio]

Damn, this thread should be renamed to:

"Western games or Wapanese games. Which is better and why?"

Except of that it's comedy gold, keep the shit flying.
Lyric Suite wins special prize in "Michelangelo was much better artist than Beethoven, prove me wrong, fuckers!" category.

Also:

I don't want to see _anyone's_ panties

Watch what you post in this filthy place, mah boy!

 

[Mrowak]

I don't mind cutesy weabooism in its purest form. The fairy-tale style of FF9 is far preferable to the pseudo-realistic emo animu faggotry of later FFs (and 8, I guess). I suppose it's like comparing The Disney Classics to The Disney Channel.

I'm with you on this. So long as jRPGs did not go into "OMG GRIMDARK" area everything was fine with them. They fairy tale style they utilised was simply charming - gave them uniqueness and that peculiar innocent vibe. At the same time it allowed them to account for quite a range of subject matter to which a fairy tale is simply the best medium. FF9 all the way

I am not saying that "Shades of Gray" cannot be done in jRPG right but the approach most weaboo designers took was essentially flawed, or rather "designed to be flawed". They simply copy pasted the fairy tale formula into seemingly (only seemingly) more serious settings that in theory should be rife with accordingly more serious problems. And it would work except it just didn't because you can't have a believeable world filled with serious shit when heroes and villains alike behave like a bunch of clueless scouts and the universe does not react to their dumbfuckery as real world would in the same context. Once the "designers" got away with it in FF7 the pestilence spread and infected everything including contemporary western games.

You can do "Shades of Gray" right but it requires much more effort because then you have to account for everything in your world. Things such as a rebelion against oppressive government cannot be just a part time hobby for characters like it was featured in FF7 or FF8. They include effort, they are formed out of conviction that your cause is right, they require constant struggle. This is all still on pseudo-bullshit level. In reality there is also a question of casualties, coratelar damage, lots of backstabbing, shady activities (e.g. drug smuggling to finance even the most basic needs: food and cloth) and most important of all - how the world would react believeably to characters' actions like that.

On account of the fact that jRPGs are not even striving for doing right what they have been attempting to do for so many years I say: nowadays most (not all) of them are shit.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Lyric Suite wins special prize in "Michelangelo was much better artist than Beethoven, prove me wrong, fuckers!" category.

Hallo thar newfag. Actually, what i said is: "here's the European Michelangelo, show me the Japanese Beethoven". The inane amounts of reticence and pathetic circumventions you faggots adopted to dodge my question proves beyond all doubts there are no Japanese counterparts to the western classics.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Embarrasing, you guys are being beaten by a little girl. pitiful.

And the system shocks are overrated dogshit as well.

 

[FeelTheRads]

he has all the classic features of a jrpg hero.

Missing the most important. He doesn't look like a faggot. Needs to look like a faggot to be a successful JRPG character.

Let me show you something

What are you showing? That in western games we don't have the vomit inducing cutesy faggotry shit? Thanks, again, for helping.

Just as a good point.

And these? Yeah, I know they look like crap.

Not to mention he looks like he's made of wood

Le what? Well, if we're gonna criticize render quality (another moron who doesn't understand the difference between art styles and graphics) then 90% of Japanese crap looks like it's made of plastic.

 

[Black Cat]

No one is arguing that some Western art styles are as bland as fuck (though the last pic is a rather poor troll). But do you really prefer the gigantic eyes, disproportionate bodies and fixation with adolescents? Generic/boring graphics are relatively innocuous but anime shit actively detracts from a game.

Gigantic eyes? Disproportionate bodies? A fixation with adolescents?

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/8206/imagine001.jpg
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/2356/imagine002.jpg
http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/6739/riddleguy.jpg
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/7118/snakeman.jpg
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/5937/ogami.jpg
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/2222/gateguard.jpg
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/3877/yamamotos.jpg
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/5038/thatguy.jpg
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/6789/oldpimp.jpg
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/691/gaianmonk.jpg

What? Let me steal your posterior quote...

No gigantic eyes, not fifteen, little relation to anime style.

Indeed. Except if you decide every day clothes, normal guns and swords, and a supernatural post apoc setting now is Anime Style. They even have... Noses!

Oh, well, maybe the Bordeaux dyed hair of my character qualifies as anime style, but then each and every raver i have known is straight out of an anime.

Research is your friend.

All the games you cited were either minor evolutions to or straight-up clones of earlier games.

A straight out clone of what is Hellsinker? Oh, boy, i want you to try to answer that one so you show us how little you know about the things you criticize. Oh, wait, you did.

Banshee for people who eat too much sugar.

LOL. Completely diferent mechanics, completely diferent genres? The only thing in common is the viewpoint. But given how much you do research you already did know that. Also, what game is Hellnight a straight up clone of?

Havn't played 3D Monster Maze Hell Night, but I watched some of a Let's Play for field research and I guess it revitalized first person horror in Weabootopia or something?

You do know that the similitudes between 3d Monster Maze and Hellnight are merely superficial, right? That they have as much in common as Banshee has to Hellsinke... Oh, wait. Forget it.

I might try and find a copy online.

You should. No other game does immersion as well as that one.

And minor evolutions? So you are saying the ones considered universally the best games on their own genres are just minor innovations on their predecessors? The ones he picked are based on historical importance, the ones i picked are based on quality gameplay. Do you want to know which ones people enjoy playing the most?

Also, since we are talking about videogames and thus gameplay is what matters, please, show me the deep and involving puzzles, as well as the flowing and quality combat, of System Shock. Or the deep and complex combat of Fallout, since we are at it. Or the deep and involving puzzles of Monkey Island.

Nice job resorting to bullshit I never said. Did I say Fallout was as influential as Diablo? Nope. I compared SH2/Siren's influence because you dumbed the idea of "historical significance" down to counting clones:

I didn't dumb the idea of historical significance. If you want to resort to historical significance tell us how many copycats, imitators, and clones they spawned. Because if you want to name an influential RPG mentioning Fallout is useless, since no one cares outside of the Codex. I mentioned Diablo because it is, for all realistic and observable purposes, much more influential, and thus historically important, both in the west and the east, than Fallout'll ever be. If you want to instead base historical importance in some idea of artistic merit, this takes us to the argument that most games, if not games in itself, lack any kind of artistic merit and can't be considered art to begin with so the point is moot.

Silent Hill 2 neither introduced notable new elements nor refined (protip- 'refined' does not mean "I liked it better than in other games") Survival Horror any more than earlier survival horror games.

It took the ideas both narrative and gameplay based of it's pretty unpolished predecesor, which was innovative but also pretty rough around the edges, and polished them into a game that has influenced every single Survival Horror game that came afterwards that isn't a Resident Evil clone. Because, you know, japanese horror games have been copying it's mood, atmosphere, and pseudo-artsy style every single other game since then. I call that influential. Few of all those have managed to surpass it on those departments even after many years, so i call that polished.

Metal Slug 3

"Culmination of their genre", eh? I'll have to remember that euphemism.

So, again, a game that's universally considered the most refined, coherent, and with better gameplay inside it's genre is not a culmination of it?

Now to other things,

What was the progenitor of Fallout?

Wasteland, the game it is a called an spiritual successor of and it was originally to be a sequel of?

What was the progenitor of The Monkey Island Series?

Zak McKracken and the Alien Mindbenders, Maniac Mansion.

The what? Mongo genre?

The Mon genre. The one pokemon belongs to? Do you want to compare how many people has played Mons games (Shin Megami Tensei games, Pokemon games, etc) to how many people has played Fallout-like role playing games? That would be a funny one, too.

I'll admit Megami Tensei and SotN did a good job of re-introducing their audiences to games that had already been made better and long died out in the West, though.

Show me an old western dungeon crawler that's completely based around recruiting your enemies, training your enemies, fusing your enemies into new creatures, then using them as party members? Shin Megami Tensei is the founder of the Mon genre, as i said before. A genre way more important than fallout-like.

Also, forgotten in the west? Of course Metroidvania games had been forgotten in the west, that's why most Castlevania ones were being published in the west during the nineties. Because no one played them until after they released Symphony of the Night, indeed.

Also, dungeon crawlers had long died on 1987? Moreso, the original Megami Tensei games were never published in the west, and still they have indirectly influenced western popular culture more than Fallout will ever do, in no small measure thanks to them being the inspiration behind the existence of bloody Pokemon.

I'm sorry you had trouble with the puzzles in Monkey Island - a game specifically designed for accessibility. I hear the new one has a quest compass.

You are actually trying to say someone who plays Riven, Rhem, and Schizm had trouble with Monkey Island's puzzles? You are amazing in your stupidity.

RPGCodex now considers Fallout popamole bullshit in which you cannot totally avoid combat. To the most elite members, nothing later than 1988 is considered important.

So, if you play it without combat what new element did it introduce? Dialogue trees? The option to pick your way through the story, just like Visual Novels have been doing since forever? And, again, there have been more Visual Novels developed in the last years in the West than Fallout Clones were ever made.

And someone already defined Fallout as Popamole bullshit on another thread. You hide in a corner, come out, shoot, hide behind the corner, try to line enemies for burst fire. Turn based gears of war, anyone? And it gives you less tactical options than Mass Effect II, in a turn based game. The awesomeness! The quality gameplay!

I care not what the Codex believes in its eternal circle jerk.

Keep it up and she might be your internet girlfriend.

So you are trying to get into Lyric Suite's pants? Can i watch? Kitty likes Yaoi.

Also, just to be sure... Are you by any chance Emovampy-Kun? You kind of remind me of him.



In any case, talking about Yaoi and the like, i have to do some things to get my LP going again and have quite a bit homework to do so i'll leave the walls of texts to others for the rest of today.

 

[spekkio]

Sorry for the tl;dr

Hallo thar newfag. Actually, what i said is: "here's the European Michelangelo, show me the Japanese Beethoven".

Hallo thar newfag. ZOMG you registered in 2006? Achievement unlocked!
Actually Black Cat gave you examples of Japanese Beethovens. The problem is: in the genres you don't have a clue about I'm afraid. Have you played ANY game listed by her? I'm curious...

The inane amounts of reticence and pathetic circumventions you faggots adopted to dodge my question proves beyond all doubts there are no Japanese counterparts to the western classics.

You mean western classics in computer games? Well, the problem is, Japanese gaymers prefer arcade/console gaming and different genres. So, some of eastern "classics":

• Super Mario Bros
• Zelda 1, Ocarina of Time
• Silent Hill
• Final Fight
• Street Fighter 2
• Shenmue
• insert some good crazy-shooter here, I don't play them... Ikaruga?
• Gran Turismo
• SMT 3

And plenty more.
Now, nigga: why don't YOU post a list of western "Michelangelos" in this genres (it's possible for most of them, but I'm curious if you played such games as Soul Reaver or Mortal Kombat for example)?

And one more thing about this "Lol BC, those games you listed weren't influential at all". Layout: Game - Evolution (good games that came after) - Current games that borrow from the formula:

Monkey Island - many adventure games of "golden age" - genre died in mainstream, some attempts of nercromancy recently plus games with lower budgets of various quality,

Fallout - Arcanum, Bloodlines - genre (or was it a single good game?) devolved into Bioware/Obsidian/Bethesda games: fake choices, skills that don't change the nature of the man game, etc. Plus some germans and pollacks.

System Shock - SS2, Deus Ex, Bloodlines - genre (or was it a single good game?) devolved into current Action-RPG-FPS genre (Mass Effect, Alpha Protocol, Fallout 3). There are also some commies...

Elite - Frontier, Privateer, X: Beyond the Frontier - genre died in mainstream, recent games (X3, Darkstar One) not as good as the old ones. More commies and germans active.

Alpha Centauri - Sid Meier's Civilizations 3-4 and other - genre alive but not as prominent as in the past. Germans and commies active in this genre too.

Were those games really that influential and changed computer games forever? They were good or great even. But influential? Let's make a short, different list:

• Doom
• Diablo
• WoW

But I'm sorry LS, you asked for something different of course:

No, that IS how its supposed to work. Random list of good western games:

Monkey Island
Fallout
System Shock
Elite
Alpha Centauri

Japanase games which compare in quality and general greatness with the above:

[fill in blanks]

Go.

But that was already delivered by Black Cat.

The problem is, you want us to give you an example of Japanese: western adventure game, cRPG, RPG/FPS hybrid, Elite-clone and 4x game that "compares in quality and general greatness" with best western games in each (western) genre.

Sorry to break it for you, BRO, but that's retarded. And if it isn't, go ahead:

Random list of good western games:

Insert Black Cat's or mine list here

Western games which compare in quality and general greatness with the above:

Go!

Edit:

And the system shocks are overrated dogshit as well.

Please, show me the deep and involving puzzles, as well as the flowing and quality combat, of System Shock

 

[Tycn]

No one is arguing that some Western art styles are as bland as fuck (though the last pic is a rather poor troll). But do you really prefer the gigantic eyes, disproportionate bodies and fixation with adolescents? Generic/boring graphics are relatively innocuous but anime shit actively detracts from a game.

Gigantic eyes? Disproportionate bodies? A fixation with adolescents? [snip]

roll-a-die's post about graphics to which I was responding used the cream of the crap (minus troll) as examples of Western art styles. I was merely responding in kind, and I'm sure you'll agree that the prepubescent shit found in many Jap games is a crime against humanity, proof that there are no technologically advanced extraterrestrials, indicates that two nukes wasn't enough, etc.

 

[Archibald]

Obviously couldn't work them out.

ME2 gameplay is basic, retarded and nonsensical. Obviously i failed to kill first enemies.

First step is admitting you have a problem.

Says the guy posting screens from Shadow of the Colossal Faggot.

 

[Lyric Suite]

The problem is, you want us to give you an example of Japanese: western adventure game, cRPG, RPG/FPS hybrid, Elite-clone and 4x game that "compares in quality and general greatness" with best western games in each (western) genre.

Sorry to break it for you, BRO, but that's retarded. And if it isn't, go ahead:

Nonsense. I have no trouble recognizing that Monkey Island is within the same spectrum of greatness as Alpha Centauri, despite the fact their respective genres shares little in common with each other. It is possible however that some genre exclude any possibility of greatness, which might explain the latent reticence in drawing a full scale confrontation between western games and Japanese ones.

Have you played ANY game listed by her? I'm curious...

No i haven't, but that's besides the point. If you say that those games are as great as the best the west has to offer then i will have to take your word for it, and investigate myself. But if you say that they are just great for what they are, that to me is an admission of inferiority.