1eyedking Japanese games are shit. Here's why.

[Redshirt #42]

Why so much hate for Japanese games, Redshirt?

I don't hate them all, some of them are really great.

 

[Raghar]

It looks like number of text lines grew lately. Probably it was because of nice weather in EU.

So lets try a shorter approach, more directly to the point.

3. Bad writing. Even people who like japanese games admitted this to be true for the most part.

Fate/Stay Night was made by Japanese. Could you name at least 20 West games/(or Russian games) that have at least comparable writing?

A lot of Japanese games were made for consoles, readable text and console is an anathema. The rest of quality texts were botched in translation. (Have you seen the difference between Russian/Ukraine games, and translated Russian/Ukraine games?)

I remember developers of Supreme Commander 2 said they can't provide detailed descriptions because of localizations, users should be happy with graphical descriptions. It looks like console trend caught up even with West developers.

4. Silliness. I think this is pretty much self-evident and it is also apparent if you read some of the other threads of japanese games. Black Cat said something along the lines of "it's retarded but it's cool". What else is there to prove? Some people may enjoy this kind of thing. I don't.

What silliness? Would you care to elaborate? I remember on that horrible, horrible, monster from FF XII that scared everyone... It was funny, I liked it. Some amount of "silliness", hyperbole, joke, or goofing around is nice. It surely beats up grimdark setting after grimdark setting. (Even black humor is great.)

5.Tasteless sex. Really, does this point need to be proven?

I wonder about that. I'd guess you didn't mean an average hentai game. Majority of hentai games are tasteless made for peple who... The fun fact is these people started to avoid them because of overflown market, and lack of story. Rance (and some other more detailed games) are somehow an exception.

I seen a lot of sex scenes in West movies. They felt as they were added just because a large movie without sex scene would be hard to sell. However there are situation when nobody have time for sex, and probably not even for romances. All these tasteful scenes are feeling quite strange in such situations, they feel much worse than a girl walking naked from the shower.

I also seen a big problem with hypocrisy, for example an absurd naked breasts censure in US. (It looks like they have problem to even accept a basic fact woman breasts have nipples...)

 

[Lyric Suite]

Now you are trolling again. Why should I waste my time on such thing when you simply KNOW better which game (or genre) is better without playing the damn games?

But i don't know anything. I have indeed never once stated that Japanese games are in fact inferior to Western games, i am asking you whether this is the case, and i want you to show me how the best of Japan is equal to the best of the West. Saying that they can't be compared is a copout and an admission to defeat.

 

[Redshirt #42]

Why so much hate for Japanese games, Redshirt?

I don't hate them all, some of them are really great.

A Japanese game that could be considered the best in any aspect is likely worse than a Western game praised for the same thing.

Pretty strong stuff.

Ok, in example I really liked Silent Hill 2. It had a good story and a great horror atmopshere. Yet it cannot compare to, let's say, System Shock 2 or Call of Cthulhu DCotE.

 

[Zomg]

Do those "modern" bullet hell shooters use some kind of analog controller for the main input? I don't even see how some of that 1-2 pixel dodging would be possible with 4-way microswitch stick like Cave arcade games were made for.

Edit - Like specifically if you're in some kind of say 5 square pixel void with a ship with a 2 square pixel hitbox, and the 5 square pixel void is moving very slowly to the SSW or something, a digital controller is going to be absolute murder, you have to feather two different microswitches at two different rates so that you can get a geartooth velocity that averages out to the correct amount. While an analog controller or mouse would be much easier. Or better would be like an analog/digital stick that you could flip between modes with a button or something.

Bullet hell nerds answer bullet hell nerd question

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Now you are trolling again. Why should I waste my time on such thing when you simply KNOW better which game (or genre) is better without playing the damn games?

But i don't know anything. I have indeed never once stated that Japanese games are in fact inferior to Western games, i am asking you whether this is the case, and i want you to show me how the best of Japan is equal to the best of the West. Saying that they can't be compared is a copout and an admission to defeat.

A retreat worthy of dunkirk.

You came into this thread all billy big bollocks and cock sure throwing your weight around one expected you to lay the smackdown. But now we can firmly say you're no master-debator, so much for the master race.

Man what a weakling, what a scrub.

 

[spekkio]

But i don't know anything.

Y so Emo?

I have indeed never once stated that Japanese games are in fact inferior to Western games, i am asking you whether this is the case

I think it isn't, BRO. Are you happy now? Huggsies?

I want you to show me how the best of Japan is equal to the best of the West.

Why should I? I like some western games and some japanese games. I don't give a fuck if "the best of Japan is equal to the best of the West". Define what you mean by "the best", "equal", etc. Sensible Soccer is or isn't equal to Ultima 1 in "greatness" category?

Saying that they can't be compared is a copout and an admission to defeat.

Show me that Alpha Centauri can be compared to Monkey Island in their "greatness" and maybe I will be enlightened. Probably not, though...
If you don't want to waste your time on this, why should I? See:

I want you to fulfill a ridiculously huge request that's likely to be dismissed with a "lolno" anyway. Then, and only, i will concede to any merit

That's not how it works, LS

Nobody cares what weaboos think, their opinions are automatically invalid

Considering how intellectually challenging you found Monkey Island, I doubt that there would be much point

Damn, you certainly showed her, Mister Ed!

 

[Lyric Suite]

Now you are trolling again. Why should I waste my time on such thing when you simply KNOW better which game (or genre) is better without playing the damn games?

But i don't know anything. I have indeed never once stated that Japanese games are in fact inferior to Western games, i am asking you whether this is the case, and i want you to show me how the best of Japan is equal to the best of the West. Saying that they can't be compared is a copout and an admission to defeat.

A retreat worthy of dunkirk.

You came into this thread all billy big bollocks and cock sure throwing your weight around one expected you to lay the smackdown. But now we can firmly say you're no master-debator, so much for the master race.

Man what a weakling, what a scrub.

Actually, i pretty much demolished this entire thread with an handful of one liners. I was the first to ask the only relevant question in this thread and i have yet to see a single satisfactory answer to my simple query. Everything else is irrelevant.

 

[Archibald]

Why so much hate for Japanese games, Redshirt?

I don't hate them all, some of them are really great.

A Japanese game that could be considered the best in any aspect is likely worse than a Western game praised for the same thing.

Pretty strong stuff.

Ok, in example I really liked Silent Hill 2. It had a good story and a great horror atmopshere. Yet it cannot compare to, let's say, System Shock 2 or Call of Cthulhu DCotE.

So please explain to me how you compare gameplay of street fighter series to something from the west. Don`t even bother if you`re going to say that Mortal Kombat or Killer Instinct(sp?) had better gameplay.

 

[Black Cat]

Do those "modern" bullet hell shooters use some kind of analog controller for the main input? I don't even see how some of that 1-2 pixel dodging would be possible with 4-way microswitch stick like Cave arcade games were made for.

Edit - Like specifically if you're in some kind of say 5 square pixel void with a ship with a 2 square pixel hitbox, and the 5 square pixel void is moving very slowly to the SSW or something, a digital controller is going to be absolute murder, you have to feather two different microswitches at two different rates so that you can get a geartooth velocity that averages out to the correct amount. While an analog controller or mouse would be much easier. Or better would be like an analog/digital stick that you could flip between modes with a button or something.

That's actually the reason many people prefer to use a keyboard on them if available, or even the directional buttons in the controler if those are usable on the game, for the densest patterns: The ancient secret Zen technique known as tapping.

That's also the reason i have never played a Touhou game as well as I play other Bullet Hell games. My best characters are the slower ones (Reimu, Yuyuko) instead of the faster ones like Marisa, but then Marisa is the only one from my favorites who is playable on every game so i always play as her even though her speed is actually way too good and, while some risky maneuvers are easier to pull of because of it, it's really hard to navigate the denser patterns without accidentally crashing into a bullet and dying because your tap, tap, tap took you one pixel too far.

The same can be said of using controllers and sticks: You will never have real trouble using a slow character to navigate a denser pattern, and you will actually get better control with it, but you will die the moment you pick the faster ones and try to squeeze between a somewhat dense pattern, since how many pixels you move each tick depends on the character's speed value, or the ship's one if you are into manly mecha instead of cute witches, and using a controler or stick you actually will over dodge more often than using the keyboard or the buttons.

The best way would be to use each one when it is better, and you can pull that both on PC and consoles but not on arcade machines, so always pick a slow speed or medium speed character or ship on those.

 

[spekkio]

Actually, I pretty much demolished this entire thread with an handful of one liners. I was the first to ask the only relevant question in this thread and I have yet to see a single satisfactory answer to MY simple query. Everything else is irrelevant.

The key to understanding Lyric Suite.

And RPGCodex.

"Obey me, fuckers, because you are wrong in everything!"

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Actually, i pretty much demolished this entire thread with an handful of one liners.

Delusional at the onset of altzheimers, i can imagine you typing that post through gritted teeth.

I was the first to ask the only relevant question in this thread and i have yet to see a single satisfactory answer to my simple query. Everything else is irrelevant.

Plenty here have posted jap games at the pinnacle of their respective genre's, wether you're interested in those games or not...that's irrelevant.

hang up your top hot and monocle LS, you're done.

 

[Zomg]

@black cat: My "feathering" in that post is your "tapping" if that's not clear.

Honestly seems kinda gay and makes me not wanna get any further than what I've been doing pissing around with dodonpachi. You can draw a circle on an Etch-a-sketch but I'd rather use a compass.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Actually, I pretty much demolished this entire thread with an handful of one liners. I was the first to ask the only relevant question in this thread and I have yet to see a single satisfactory answer to MY simple query. Everything else is irrelevant.

The key to understanding Lyric Suite.

And RPGCodex.

"Obey me, fuckers, because you are wrong in everything!"

Burned by an 09'er

 

[Black Cat]

@black cat: My "feathering" in that post is your "tapping" if that's not clear.

Honestly seems kinda gay and makes me not wanna get any further than what I've been doing pissing around with dodonpachi. You can draw a circle on an Etch-a-sketch but I'd rather use a compass.

You can't do that! You can't leave the genre until you have faced Ultra Spiritual Larsa at least once! Defeating her without continues is entirely optional, though.

Now, jokes aside, the most intense arcade like genres always had to contend with control limitations of that kind, and i actually use cheap controllers and keyboards for my shmup gaming because often they end flying across the room after I crashed into a bullet yet again.

Inspire yourself watching Gil's replays and those from other great icons of the Bullet Hell faithful. If he can freeform dodge like that while positioning himself on the worse possible place then we must, and need to, be able to dodge anything regardless of controller and hardware under normal conditions. Otherwise we are just softcore casuals with butter fingers.

You can also try Ikaruga clones, which are another shmup genre where you have a slighty greater margin of error because of the polarity system.

And i'm sorry about the confusion, i had not heard it being called like that before.

 

[Brotherman Bill]

Actually, I pretty much demolished this entire thread with an handful of one liners. I was the first to ask the only relevant question in this thread and I have yet to see a single satisfactory answer to MY simple query. Everything else is irrelevant.

The key to understanding Lyric Suite.

And RPGCodex.

"Obey me, fuckers, because you are wrong in everything!"

Burned by an 09'er

Actually that was the weakest burn in the history of the English language.

 

[Archibald]

Don` be jelous.

 

[spekkio]

^
Yeah, that's why I avoid tl;dr posts - way too much many errors to fix afterwards.
Fuck, I'm good at one thinkg only:

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Actually, i pretty much demolished this entire thread with an handful of one liners.

P. much

*argument*

lolno

*argument*

lolno

*argument*

lolno

*gives up*

I WIN

Skyway-fu is motherfucking unbeatable. No one has the stamina to keep up with it.



...Except VD, maybe.

 

[Raghar]

That's also the reason i have never played a Touhou game as well as I play other Bullet Hell games. My best characters are the slower ones (Reimu, Yuyuko) instead of the faster ones like Marisa,

However these faster can get out of trouble quickly. When they need to be at other side they dodge only one attack and switch position readily, while the slower would need to dodge multiple attack before they would be able to improve theirs position.

Inspire yourself watching Gil's replays and those from other great icons of the Bullet Hell faithful. If he can freeform dodge like that while positioning himself on the worse possible place then we must, and need to, be able to dodge anything regardless of controller and hardware under normal conditions.

This reminded me how some people, who know I can do programing, AI development, and SW architecture, are thinking. He can do all these things, this must be easy... Then they hit brick wall.
(I even heard an answer to my saying that math problem is easy: "... but, you have a talent.")

You know there is a small difference between people who have talent, and who are just above average. And then there are people who are unable to do at all. Be happy you are not in the last group. (I seen these people play Touhou. It was pretty bad.)

 

[Raghar]

Skyway-fu is motherfucking unbeatable

Actually there is a way. Spam the thread with anime images related to the topic.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Why should I? I like some western games and some japanese games. I don't give a fuck if "the best of Japan is equal to the best of the West". Define what you mean by "the best", "equal", etc. Sensible Soccer is or isn't equal to Ultima 1 in "greatness" category?

Now you are just retreating into a weak relativistic circle jerk. If you didn't care about my query you should have never made an attempt to answer it. And by best i mean greatest.

Sensible Soccer is or isn't equal to Ultima 1 in "greatness" category?

Probably not. The "good for what it is" argument shows its limitations here. The Beatles are not comparable in terms of greatness to Beethoven, despite being very good at what they did, and the same can be said for many, if not most, of the Japanese games being mentioned here.

Show me that Alpha Centauri can be compared to Monkey Island in their "greatness" and maybe I will be enlightened.

Both games are great because they achieved irregardless of their respective medium a sufficient level of sophistication and creative brilliance to warrant the respect of even the most exigent of player. They are both great the same way Beethoven and Dostoevsky are equally great, despite working on completely different mediums. The fallacy in your argument, that Japanese games merely focus on different mediums, is fallacious precisely because it doesn't take into account the level of sophistication and creativity the creators have poured into the game irrespectively of the exigences imposed by said medium in the first place. Essentially, both Monkey Island and Alpha Centauri are great because they are just not good what they are, they are more then that. In a way, the medium is only as great as the creator makes it.

 

[visions]

So what are our resident Japfags' thoughts on old KOEI strategies?

Romance of the Three Kingdoms series for instance?

Are they good?

 

[fizzelopeguss]

What a load of bollocks.

 

[mpxd]

Why should I? I like some western games and some japanese games. I don't give a fuck if "the best of Japan is equal to the best of the West". Define what you mean by "the best", "equal", etc. Sensible Soccer is or isn't equal to Ultima 1 in "greatness" category?

Now you are just retreating into a weak relativistic circle jerk. If you didn't care about my query you should have never made an attempt to answer it. And by best i mean greatest.

Sensible Soccer is or isn't equal to Ultima 1 in "greatness" category?

Probably not. The "good for what it is" argument shows its limitations here. The Beatles are not comparable in terms of greatness to Beethoven, despite being very good at what they did, and the same can be said for many, if not most, of the Japanese games being mentioned here.

Show me that Alpha Centauri can be compared to Monkey Island in their "greatness" and maybe I will be enlightened.

Both games are great because they achieved irregardless of their respective medium a sufficient level of sophistication and creative brilliance to warrant the respect of even the most exigent of player. They are both great the same way Beethoven and Dostoevsky are equally great, despite working on completely different mediums. The fallacy in your argument, that Japanese games merely focus on different mediums, is fallacious precisely because it doesn't take into account the level of sophistication and creativity the creators have poured into the game irrespectively of the exigences imposed by said medium in the first place. Essentially, both Monkey Island and Alpha Centauri are great because they are just not good what they are, they are more then that. In a way, the medium is only as great as the creator makes it.

...if you were asking "can [Japanese] games be art", you should've asked it outright. The answer is, nobody gives a shit.

 

[Mrowak]

Show me that Alpha Centauri can be compared to Monkey Island in their "greatness" and maybe I will be enlightened.

Both games are great because they achieved irregardless of their respective medium a sufficient level of sophistication and creative brilliance to warrant the respect of even the most exigent of player. They are both great the same way Beethoven and Dostoevsky are equally great, despite working on completely different mediums. The fallacy in your argument, that Japanese games merely focus on different mediums, is fallacious precisely because it doesn't take into account the level of sophistication and creativity the creators have poured into the game irrespectively of the exigences imposed by said medium in the first place. Essentially, both Monkey Island and Alpha Centauri are great because they are just not good what they are, they are more then that. In a way, the medium is only as great as the creator makes it.

Ok, Lyric Suite - as much as I am against japanese faggotry in my games (though not every japanese game suffers from it) the thing you're saying here is not even an argument. You did not answer the question in any precise comprehensive way proving beyond shadow of doubt that Alpha Centauri and The Monkey Island are sophisticated at all. That they are both complex - I have only your word for it (had i not played them). Had spekkio, Black Cat or any other weaboo supporter used the same wording only the other way round you'd be first to point out how "misguided" and "fellacious" their "argument" was.

And exactly what level of sophistication do you have in mind and by what standards do you determine it? Do by sophistication you mean: level of interactivity, rich and well developed world, easy to understand but all the same complex ruleset, or just sheer amount of entertainment you can derive? Are your standards determined by games' popularity, amount of effort you need to invest to beat them, the fact that they were the first two in their respecctive genres you played, or what?

Add to that a simple factor: the values you consider to be universal are not necessarily so, sorry. The fact you were born in USA, Europe or Australia doesn't mean that a person from east China has got to have the same scale on what's important or not.

Fuck, I'm (mostly) on your side on this particular issue but even I have to say: wtf was that shit?

 

[1eyedking]

In this thread every weeaboo fails because they can't answer a man's simple query:

That's it? A couple of wizardry rip offs, with one from 2001, no less? Sorry, but you are going to have to do better then that. I want you to take every single Western classic from every era and genre (not just turn based Wizardry wannabes with retarded animu shit slapped over it) and find me a worthy Japanese counter part for each. Only then i will concede to any merit for the Japanese industry.

 

[visions]

Good, I recently got Balor of the Evil Eye also from KOEI, haven't had time to try it out yet.

 

[visions]

The setting massively appeals to me.