LudensCogitet
Learned
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2019
- Messages
- 210
Permission denied. Move along, citizen.
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Jeff Vogel Soapbox Thread
- Thread starter Humanity has risen!
- Start date
Fowyr
Arcane
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2009
- Messages
- 7,671
It was entire CD of maps in the age when downloading 700 Mb was not an easy feat, even if your local BBS was free. I liked some wads from H!ZONE. Can't remember now, it was more than 20 years ago.
Late Bloomer
Scholar
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2022
- Messages
- 2,955
That was a very enjoyable read. Thanks for that. As for midwest emo. If bands like Free Throw and Calculator count then yes or that makes me a poser not sure. It reminds me of 70's punk. Never heard of c u in da ballpit. Decided to play it. Its really good. ("I just want to kickflip into the sunset and disappear" standing out for me) Concerning my name, I wish it was cool and music related. After lurking here off an on for many years I decided to make an account and join in on the fun. A little late for sure. But unlike Jeff, being an oldfag doesnt scare nor bother me.
I was commenting on is lamenting. The woe is me I have to charge 25 dollars now here is some totally misguided reasons why. I think he should charge whatever he wants for his games. And if he feels they are now a 25 dollar value then do it. He has an audience. I used to be that audience. So 25, 20, or 3 makes no difference to me when decline like Queens Wish is whats being offered.
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2012
- Messages
- 2,229
Quake X men conversion wasn't just skins, there was a lot of original scripting, weapons, levels, etc (and that during a time when just having a 3D game was a novelty all by itself).
I've read it at first as: "milk older titties", true story. Eurgh, why older, younger are better.
EtcEtcEtc
Savant
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2017
- Messages
- 404
Son of a bitch I just bought it too.
https://www.eurogamer.net/document-...or-each-free-game-on-its-store-up-to-sep-2019
Obviously, no specific details on his sale - and prices they pay vary - I would bet around 100-200k.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2011
- Messages
- 97,497
https://bottomfeeder.substack.com/p/what-did-i-do-to-mobile-game-developers
What Did I Do To Mobile Game Developers To Make Them Hate Me So Much?
Why are you begging me to play a different game?
There are a million of these, and all of them do everything they can to make you play a different game.
So just for fun, I decided to fire up my phone and try a bunch of mobile games, to find out how weird things have gotten with them.
I started out with a game my kids used to play, Dragon Story. Then, whenever it showed me an ad for another game, I tried that game. When that game tried to get me to play a different game, I switched to that game. And so on.
I tried BitLife, Episode, Brawl Stars, Join & Clash, Wheel Scale!, and a bunch of others. Based on estimates at a site I found called SensorTower, all these games are making good or great money. Though SensorTower might just be making up all its figures. Based on the ethical level mobile gaming operates on, that wouldn't surprise me.
I had a little bit of fun and got really irritated on many occasions, and I made some observations you might find amusing, written below.
It's Easy To Complain About Mobile Games, But Don't
When the iPhone App Store opened up, mobile gaming was a little paradise.
For a few bucks you could get all sorts of simple really good games. Angry Birds. Plants vs. Zombies. Doodle Jump. Cut the Rope. Fruit Ninja. All available for a price cheaper than fair, they gave you a pleasant, painless amusement on the subway while making the developers rich.
Then adware took over and micropayments were everywhere, and mobile games sucked for a while.
Now, on Apple devices, you can subscribe to Apple Arcade and get more sweet games than you could ever play for five bucks a month. Google Play Pass has a similar thing going.
So if you go this route, you can get all the fun, ad-free mobile games you could want for the cost of half a cup of coffee (Seattle prices).
Honestly, in terms of value for cash, these services make mobile gaming cheaper than it's ever been! Weirdly cheap. Suspiciously cheap. Nobody should ever seriously complain cheap. "We're going to hike these prices like crazy the moment we get more than a handful of you suckers onboard" cheap. (I don't think they will raise prices, though. The game services are a great loss leader to sell phones.)
But that's not where I wandered. I went to the Wild West, which is where your kids are RIGHT NOW.
I tried the sexy, storytelling, sexy game Episode. It is exquisitely painful.
My Game Doesn't Want Me To Play It
Mobile games have a lot of ads. When you're lucky, they're little banners at the bottom of the screen where you can easily ignore them. More often, they take over the entire device for a while. Then quit the game to switch you to the app store. Then bring up an X button that looks like it closes the ad, but pressing it shows you another ad.
It's aggravating, but hey, the game is free, so I can't complain too much.
Actually, I can complain. I totally can.
What really bends my brain is that most of the ads they show are for other games. Call me an old-fashioned boomer, but ... If I can get someone to actually play one of my games, the LAST thing I ever want is to try to convince them to play a different game!
Since most of the ads I saw were for other games, it really made me wonder how outside cash is ever entering this ecosystem. Is 90% of the mobile games market just companies paying each other for ads space, circulating one heavily-worn $20 bill back and forth between them while venture capital dollars keeps the whole enterprise from exploding?
Boy, when the next serious recession happens, we’re sure going to find out.
The way mobile games normally make money is to get a bunch of people addicted to them. Then a tiny percentage of the players (called "whales") are compulsives who spend a fortune on getting all the ultragems or ponyberries or whatever your made-up currency is.
For this to work, you need a bunch of people addicted to your game. How can that happen, though, when all the ads make your game insanely annoying to play?
I know I'm not the first to think this industry is weird. But it's weird.
The good news: There’s a new Diablo game! The bad news: You have to pay real money to get stuff. The corrupting influence of mobile is powerful. Also it might be banned in China lol.
The Rest Of The Ads Are For Gambling
Ads for apps that let you gamble with real money. Ads for crypto, which is just mega-gambling that you pretend is investing. (JOKING! DON'T YELL AT ME CRYPTO PEOPLE! Your system is working GREAT!)
While gambling can be exciting and fun, it is also a vice. You will lose money, and some people get compulsive about it with massively destructive results. I don't think kids should be getting ads for it.
I was honestly surprised to see gambling ads in my kid's cutesy dragon raising game. What that means, of course, is that I am painfully naive and insufficiently cynical. If I've gotten to this point with any positive expectations for mobile apps, there is no hope for me in this cruel world.
The Apple App Store used to be really carefully curated. When I first started selling games on iOS, I had to get my games through a careful inspection and usually have to make multiple changes. That sort of curation is expensive and now a thing of the past.
I Was Wrong About In-Game Purchases
Since I've been writing about games for 30 years or so, I have had many opportunities to be wrong about things.
Mobile games with in-app purchases depend on a tiny percentage of whales who spend huge amounts of money. These games are functionally low-level gambling that looks for compulsives and addicts to bleed dry.
I used to think this is completely moral. Now I'm not so sure.
Some people are compulsive. They get addicted to gambling. They gamble until their lives are in ruins. It is so easy and cheap to say, "Well, they shouldn't do that!" But for some people, that doesn't work. They know they are destroying their lives, but their brains are cracked. Their inability to stop is compulsive. That is what "compulsive" MEANS.
One of the main purposes of government is to prevent the strong from abusing the weak and vulnerable. This should still apply if the vulnerability is mental.
I am very glad I don't make my living exploiting people with cracks in their brains.
Yet, I can't advocate for doing anything about it. It's one thing to think something is wrong. It's another thing entirely to pass a law.
Magic: The Gathering or Pokemon cards (which are worth real money, sometimes quite a lot) are low-stakes gambling aimed at children, but nobody is calling for a law to ban them, because there's no way to write such a law.
And honestly? If you really want to do some good? If you really want to protect people then have your state shut down its lottery and remove the dozen ads for it in every supermarket. When our government is absolutely dependent on leeching money out of the foolish, compulsive, and bad-at-math, you can bet they will only ever give us more gambling.
Ahhhhh … The golden age of mobile games.
Evony Still Exists
By the way, remember that pretty standard fantasy wargame called Evony that built its fanbase with the horniest, most boob-heavy ads in the industry?
It's still totally around, but its web page now leads off with Abraham Lincoln.
I miss the old ads. They were sleazy, but they were so honest they attained a weird sort of purity.
I really wonder what gets Evony more users: Big Booby Girl or Giant Armor Sword Dude.
Even With All My Complaining, Mobile Games Are Still A Great Deal
I found a lot of sketchy stuff in my poking around, but I did have to dig. The most popular games are the most popular for a reason: They give fantastic value.
You can get a lot of fun from Pokemon Go, Clash of Clans, Fortnite, PUBG Mobile, Among Us!, Clash Royale, or a host of others without paying a penny. Sometimes you might want to spend a bit, but it's really not necessary.
And again, the subscription services are really cheap. For the moment.
So it's fun to feel all morally superior about the whales and get angry about the ads. But the story here is, in the end, the same as everywhere else in the games industry. There is an enormous amount of quality competition which has driven the price of games to near-zero. If you want to break in here, you'd better have a seriously amazing game.
So, in the end, mobile gaming is the same as everything else.
- Joined
- May 19, 2007
- Messages
- 219
Rates were semi-reveled as part of the Apple Epic Court Case.
https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/4/2...pple-trial-arkham-subnautica-mutant-year-zero
Unless they have significantly increased rates since 2019, then 50k - 125k Max is a good estimate.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2011
- Messages
- 97,497
https://bottomfeeder.substack.com/p/four-awesomely-wise-tips-to-make
Four Awesomely Wise Tips To Make Your Game End Well
It's important, and it makes you money.
If the end of your game is wordless and full of weird imagery, please take it slow! We need a minute to figure out what we’re looking at!
I have finished a lot of games lately, and I’ve experienced a lot of badly done endings.
When you write a story, the ending is important. Writing the end should be really fun and satisfying. No more exposition! No more character development. Now more shaping a plot! You're at the end! You've won!
It's over. You get to blow everything up. Everyone who needs to die dies. Everyone who gets rewarded gets rewarded. Cue the orchestra. Send the audience to the exit with a song in their hearts!
At least that's how it should be. All the endings I've seen followed a common troubling pattern. Game writers have picked up some really bad habits.
So here is some advice. All of it should be obvious. Yet, here we are.
Ending an RPG was easy in the old days. “The evil wizard is now dead. The Land of Schmoo is safe forever. As a reward, they give you a nice hat! THE END!”
My Data Points
The games that launched me into writing this were: Control. Hollow Knight. Deathloop. Returnal.
These are very good, recommendable, fun, successful games. I enjoyed them. I just thought they had endings that were too short, vague, confusing, or unsatisfying.
Honestly, I've played every Returnal ending, and I have no idea what that game is about, but that's OK because nobody else does either. Deathloop seems like it wants me to feel bad for finishing it.
I don't like talking trash about other developers, so I'll try not to harp on these titles too much. (Plus, I'm sure some will loudly disagree). Instead, I compressed my thoughts on their endings into four pieces of writing advice ...
At the end of the Last of Us, zombies are still everywhere and we don’t know what will happen to the characters. BUT. We now know how they feel about each other, and that’s enough to be satisfying.
Ending Advice One: Your Ending Should Be Long Enough
This is weird advice. 99% of the time, your writing can be improved by shortening it. Video game writing almost always needs an edit for length. (For RPGs, two edits. Get in there with a machete.)
However, I've encountered some endings that were WAY too short. Like, 30-60 seconds. Then credits.
Most people don't finish games these days. When someone finishes your game, you need to honor their time with an ending that feels like a reward. Or, at least, something that had thought and effort.
First of all, your ending needs a few seconds of transition to make the player realize they are watching the ending. They need a pause to switch mental gears from playing to watching and to realize what is happening. This goes double if they just finished a huge boss fight and are full of adrenaline.
Then they need an explanation of what happens and what the results of their actions are. This needs to take enough time to be clearly communicated. The end of the game is one of the few times when the player will really forgive you for it being overlong. Again, this is a reward.
A lame ending can squander truly awesome amounts of goodwill.
Ending Advice Two: It Should Be Clear
I have often bemoaned that very few writers stay in the game industry long enough to become good at the craft. Writing is hard and takes time. Game writers tend to be very tentative (almost afraid) about showing their work and use all sorts of tricks to hide what they are writing from the player.
(Tragically, every young writer has one wacky M. Night Shyamalan trick ending they need to get out of their system. “But the main character was a ROBOT the whole time!” “Really? Oh. Sure.”)
One of the most common tricks to hide flaws in your work is to make the ending very obscure. No one can criticize it if they don't understand it. Incomprehensibility is deep.
If the player spends fifty hours on your game and the credits roll and the main reaction is, "What just happened?" then something has gone horribly wrong.
Do you want to know if the ending to your game is too confusing? Here's a test. Google "Ending of [Game] explained." If you get a lot of hits, you're in a bad way. If you actually watch those videos and they all end with, "We aren't sure either," your ending was DEFINITELY too obscure.
Ending Advice Three: It Should Provide Closure Without a Lot More Player Effort
There is an increasing tendency for games to have a "basic" ending, which is some combination of incoherent and sad. Then, if you keep playing and repeat content or do harder stuff, you get a "better" ending.
This is not, by itself, bad. The ending is a reward, and doing more stuff should get a better reward. Elden Ring does this fairly well. Each optional ending requires a side quest, but these quests are not too difficult and pretty fun (though you will need to find a walkthrough to actually do them).
I suggest two things: One. The better ending should be better. If nothing else, it should provide more clarity about what is happening and what was going on. Two. If you put in super-hard ultra-hardcore mode to test the player, this is awesome, but don't lock endings behind it.
Extra stuff should truly be extra, and all players should have a decent shot at getting the full story. If you write a good story, people should see it!
Of course, it’s art. There are no hard and fast rules. Inside has a quick, abstract ending, but it’s a quick, abstract game, so it works. Highly recommended.
Ending Advice Four: It Should Be Satisfying
This is the art part.
If you tell a story, the ending needs to end it. The story has a place in your brain now, and the ending should make that place a comfortable one. When the player remembers your story, it shouldn't be with a feeling of confusion, of incompleteness, of work left undone. It should feel like you had a complete experience.
This is hard to explain. Like I said, it's the art part.
The Last of Us and The Last of Us, Part 2 had complete endings. You went on a journey. You fought humans and zombies. You made choices. Then, in the end, you knew where the characters were emotionally, what they had done, how it had affected them, and where they were at now. A complete ending.
I think the solid ending of The Last of Us is a large part of the reason the game was a success. That ending made them money. The ending of the sequel was drenched with blood and despair, but it was still a proper ending. You knew what the story was.
Important note: Your ending can totally be sad. It's allowed. However, a happy ending will leave players more likely to remember your game fondly and recommend it to others. Alas, sadness costs money.
I'd like to define a satisfying ending, but this is a case where you should let people finish your game, ask what they thought of the ending, and listen to them. What was confusing? What characters did they want to find out the fate, but didn't? What left them agitated? (Not unhappy, but unsettled. As in, they needed to find out a little more about what happened to be content.)
Some other games with solid endings: Shadow of the Colossus. (Sad.) Portal & Portal 2. Papers, Please. Witcher 3. (GOAT) SOMA. (Terrific.)
Seriously, The Ending Is the Easy Part! And It Helps!
You should care about your game having a good ending because your game will make more money.
When the player finishes your game, that is when they are most likely to review it and when they are most likely to recommend it to friends.
When the game ends, you want them to be excited that they played it. You want the customer to go away happy. That is the ending's job. It's the ending's ONLY job.
It costs as much money and time to make a bad ending as a good one. The rare players who bother to play your game to the end deserve to have their time respected.
Actually, I’ll emphasize that one. SOMA has one of the best endings I’ve ever seen. Great game.
Extra Bonus Advice
NEVER end your game with a cliffhanger unless you are ABSOLUTELY sure the sequel will happen.
And honestly? Not even then.
Our next game, Queen’s Wish 2: The Conqueror, an all-new, innovative, Empire-building indie RPG, comes out for Windows & Mac on August 24. Wishlist it to be told when it is released!
Dorateen
Arcane
I usually don't get on Vogel's case, respect him as an independent software developer. But leading with that Wizardry 6 screen as an example of a neat tidy ending is so horribly wrong. The game does not end, but rather continues the adventure in its sequel, which had multiple starting points depending on how the player completes Bane of the Cosmic Forge. The complete opposite of what Vogel was talking about.
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CanadianCorndog
Learned
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2021
- Messages
- 148
Feel good ending is always more satisfying to the majority than a sad ending. Then you need to start your protagonist out in rough shape to contrast with the ending and create a wide range of character growth.
Negative -> Positive.
Story telling 101.
Negative -> Positive.
Story telling 101.
Not always. For a counterpoint, see the bitter and still amazing ending of "Planescape: Torment". Or the Downward Spiral album that starts off with this guy getting everything he ever wanted but then ends with the song 'Hurt'. Or the Elric saga which starts the character off as a ruler of a decadent and powerful empire, only to see him gradually lose everything through the course of his story. Or Kirth Gersen from the Demon Princes story, where he is finally victorious over his enemies only to wail in sorrow after realizing that without his nemeses he no longer has a purpose in life. Or the protaganist in LeGuin's "The Lathe of Heaven" where the world is a shittier place than when the story started, and he's kind of responsible for why... at least he stopped further damage from being done. For movies, "Saving Private Ryan" comes to mind when it comes to bitter endings. Same with "Things to Do in Denver When Your Dead" and "Grand Budapest Hotel", where the endings are sad but memorable. Hell, even the end of Conan the Barbarian is pretty depressing despite the badassness of the movie. Same with "Gran Turino" and "Unforgiven". "Old Yeller" has an infamous ending and its a classic. Man, I think sad endings stand out more than your happy endings.
Dorateen
Arcane
For that matter, even the ending of The Lord of the Rings, as Tolkein envisioned it, is tinged with melancholy. There was triumph over the spirit of Sauron, but at the cost of the passing of the Third Age, and ushering in a new unknown chapter in the history of Middle Earth. The hobbits return to the shire only to find it unlike the pastoral home they left behind, and the Eldar are departing for the Grey Havens.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2011
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- 97,497
https://rpgwatch.com/articles/jeff-vogel-interview-525.html
Jeff Vogel Interview
Welcome back for another interview. This time it's with Jeff Vogel of Spiderweb Software. He is a veteran of the game industry, and released multiple indie RPGs over the years.
He was kind enough to answer a few questions while getting his latest game Queen's Wish ready for release at the end of August.
RPGWatch: You have been in the business for over 20+ years. In that time a lot has changed in the industry. What advice would you give someone who wants to develop their first indie game?
Jeff Vogel: When I got into the games business, it was extremely competitive and difficult. Making a living in art is always hard. It has gotten more so with every passing year.
So I think the main thing I would say to a prospective developer is: "You have to compete with Free." All of the most popular games in the world, the Fortnites, the Leagues of Legends, are big budget, highly professional, fun games, and they are FREE.
Is your product compelling and unique enough to compete with Free? If not, rethink your path.
RPGWatch: Something that is brought up in my latest interviews is about small developers having limited resources and having to meet player expectations. Do you have an opinion on that topic?
Jeff Vogel: Indie games always specialize in filling unmet demand, in finding underserved niches. I write turn-based, story-heavy RPGs. That is a market that will always have fans, but it's a really hard sort of game to write. I can get away with being low-budget when I write such a boutique sort of product.
RPGWatch: On the topic of indie games I remember a time when you mentioned there were too many indie games. Has your opinion changed?
Jeff Vogel: There were over 11000 game releases in 2021 on Steam alone. The VAST majority of those games will go almost completely unplayed. For most of the indies that do find some success, if they suddenly vanished, players could immediately find a suitable substitute.
When most games aren't being played, there are too many by definition. Note that I'm talking entirely about games as a business. Hobbyist developers are doing their own thing. Once they try to sell their hobby games, though, they are entering a glutted market.
So of course there are too many games. I think the next recession is going to be a rough one, though I hope I am proved wrong.
RPGWatch: I check out your blog when it's updated, and found some of your thoughts very intriguing. Especially the one about games not needing a story to be successful, and selling games at certain prices. Can you elaborate more on both those issues?
Jeff Vogel: Video games and storytelling have a very weird, arm's-length reputation. I think a good story can really help a game stand out and sell better. Yet, a good story is absolutely, totally not necessary to have a hit game. Formal storytelling is just not the main thing video games offer.
As for prices, nobody really knows the best way to price a game or DLC or in-game purchases. It's a new business model, and there are a lot of open questions. Rampant inflation is only making the topic more confusing.
Some links to Jeff's blog:
There Are Too Many Video Games.
Six Truths About Video Game Stories.
Actually No, We Don't Know How Much Video Games Should Cost.
RPGWatch: Years back you did a panel about phone games and in recent years some of your games are ported to phones. Has it been profitable?
Jeff Vogel: I port all of my games to iPad and some of them to iPhone. They make an amount of money that makes us happy, but we are also a very small, humble company. We are nowhere near being able to make a living just from mobile, and I doubt we ever will be.
RPGWatch: Recently you have been using Kickstarter to raise funds for development. Do you have any opinions on crowd-funded games, and the whole process?
Jeff Vogel: Kickstarter has been awesome for us. It works as pre-sales, and it lets players get involved in the development process. We let high-end backers provide design ideas for the games, and this has been an enormously successful experiment. Turns out our fans are very, very clever people.
Because the business has gotten so competitive, I really wonder if we would still be in business without Kickstarter.
RPGWatch: You mentioned during the development of Queens Wish that the trilogy would probably be your last? Has that opinion changed?
Jeff Vogel: Not really. I am well into middle-age. I don't have that many working years yet. There are a lot of remasters I want to do. At some point, almost every creator has to say, "I have said what I wanted to. I'm going to close out my career touring and playing the old hits."
RPGWatch: Also for the first time in Queen's Wish you allowed players to create a save when the game is completed. Will the decisions players made in the first game affect the sequel?
Jeff Vogel: There are a few changes, yes. Most of the decisions you make that carry forward will take effect in the final ending of the trilogy. There are going to be a LOT of endings, some of which can be affected by decisions you made early on.
RPGWatch: Now comes the dreaded question I'm sure has been asked over a thousand times. Have you ever thought of updating your game engine?
Jeff Vogel: Updating in what way? Remember, we're a niche, tiny, low-budget company. I create full-length games almost entirely by myself. We have to be very careful what we spend money and time on, because we have little to spare.
My engine creates very fun, playable RPGs in a reasonable amount of time. Nothing is perfect, but everything is fine, and we've achieved a lot of success with it.
A lot of our success in this business comes from knowing just the right amount of resources we need to spend on every part of the game, and not one bit more. Real artists ship.
RPGWatch: Thank you for your time to answer a few questions. Do you have anything you want to add before the interview is concluded?
Jeff Vogel: Just the standard self-promotion, because attention is very, very hard to get for an indie. If you want our innovative, unusual stuff, try Queen's Wish 2: The Tormentor. If you want to try one of our more beloved, cult-classic type games, try Geneforge 1 - Mutagen.
If you like role-playing games, especially ones with interesting stories, settings, and choices, we are worth a look. Thank you!
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- Nov 6, 2020
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- 14,946
In Tolkien's case, it was probably a reflection of his return from war.
Lacrymas
Arcane
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2015
- Messages
- 18,021
How did I miss this little morsel? ;d The melancholic tinge is the scars left upon the soul after war. That is why Gollum bites off Frodo's finger, it's a physical representation of emotional wounds. Sam and Frodo don't find the Shire unlike what they left it, it is they who have changed and are now unable to relate to the other hobbits.
Dorateen
Arcane
Did you miss the part about Saruman taking over the Shire and turning it into an industrial hellscape? That's what I was referring to.
c u in da ballpit ashren
Learned
- Joined
- May 7, 2021
- Messages
- 206
Endings have a large margin for subjectivity. Jeff's wrong in a lot of what he said, but his point about endings being too short, and to not waste the player's time are true. Endings are probably the more fun parts to write in a story and you can tell by how many fanfic writers back in the day used to spring badly written shyamalan send offs in what they wrote. As long as your ending can be seen and have some potential to be predicted, then you're avoiding the 400iq creative-writing-is-my-passion cringe that passes for a lot of things. It's worth noting that in plenty of games, endings are just a series of slides anyway, and the only people who are going to see them, especially in niche games, as well as properly appreciate them enough to call them "good," are those that invested their time in the game. And when you get the zoomer generation who were raised on some guy shouting on camera over a horror game, the general consensus on any ending regardless of quality is already inherently more negative since the zoomers who were interested in video games mainly were so because of the cinematic cutscene told story they watched like a movie, rather than a game.
I've dated girls in the past who couldn't be fucked to pick up a controller, but went nuts over the lore of games like Silent Hill, Fallout, all that, because they watched youtube and even when I tell them "You know you have the game in your steam library, right? You can play it, right?" And they'd still rather watch it like it's a movie which doesn't give them the same experience as if you were the one who had to do all this planning, strating, combat, etc, and took down the final boss yourself. That time investment simply isn't there if you just watched one clip or two to get the gist and then skipped to the end.
So there's an even bigger aspect of "who is this for" with an ending.
One of my favorite games of all time is Yakuza 0 and that game is far from an RPG but it tells the story decently well and the gameplay really draws out your insistence on seeing what happens next, despite being told through cutscenes. By the time I've gotten to the ending, I've suffered through countless bullshit bosses that while they were a joy to fight, just had so many sequences and appearances that at some points I'm thinking "I gotta get through this and hurry because the story's too interesting with what just happened."
Again, somebody who doesn't do all that suffering who sees the ending where everything is cathartic and bittersweet might be more inclined to write the ending off with convenient excuses. You can fall asleep to a movie and do better appreciating it. You can't do that with a game because there's always input.
Anyway yeah point is, Jeff is out of touch for sure and it's weird to think he wrote Geneforge.
I've dated girls in the past who couldn't be fucked to pick up a controller, but went nuts over the lore of games like Silent Hill, Fallout, all that, because they watched youtube and even when I tell them "You know you have the game in your steam library, right? You can play it, right?" And they'd still rather watch it like it's a movie which doesn't give them the same experience as if you were the one who had to do all this planning, strating, combat, etc, and took down the final boss yourself. That time investment simply isn't there if you just watched one clip or two to get the gist and then skipped to the end.
So there's an even bigger aspect of "who is this for" with an ending.
One of my favorite games of all time is Yakuza 0 and that game is far from an RPG but it tells the story decently well and the gameplay really draws out your insistence on seeing what happens next, despite being told through cutscenes. By the time I've gotten to the ending, I've suffered through countless bullshit bosses that while they were a joy to fight, just had so many sequences and appearances that at some points I'm thinking "I gotta get through this and hurry because the story's too interesting with what just happened."
Again, somebody who doesn't do all that suffering who sees the ending where everything is cathartic and bittersweet might be more inclined to write the ending off with convenient excuses. You can fall asleep to a movie and do better appreciating it. You can't do that with a game because there's always input.
Anyway yeah point is, Jeff is out of touch for sure and it's weird to think he wrote Geneforge.
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- Mar 22, 2013
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you should try to find a way to end your ramblings earlier
I don't think Tolkien was very fond of "The Scourging of the Shire" portion. In fact, I think the book would have been much better without it. It was unnecessary, and in that respect, the movie was correct.
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