Eternity Josh Sawyer reflects on his failures with Pillars of Eternity

[roshan]

Seriously, what is it with him looking like a woman who decided to transition at 60yo. It's even more disturbing than his game design ideas.

He looks like 1970s pedophile who just got released after 40 years in prison.

Sorry but posts like these are cope. He's a tall dude who works out, that look gets top tier West Coast art hoe pussy if he wants it.

Truly the owner of a rippling physique:

Infinitron DYEL? Someone has gotta, because it doesn't look like Sawyer does much himself.

Gross!!!!! He looks just like the kind of cuck that would want his characters to autoresurrect after combat!

 

[Volourn]

Even funnier is PE is what turned me off from supporting Kickstarter. I actually skipped actual KS games I really liked.

FYI The PE games aren't the worst ever but they could have been so much better if the guy who hates DnD and IE games wasn't tapped to lead the series that was to be the 'spiritual successors' to them.

DA had its flaws and the series lots its way as EA and nu Bio leajed in, but DA knew what being a 'spiritual successor' actually meant. It continued and added to the formula.

 

[vortex]

Am I too drunk or does he vaguely look like DE’s Harry in this photo?

Maybe he wants to relive in Disco Elysium fantasy of success story to have him forget the burnout and prepare positive mindset for Pillars 3.

The way he talked about all the stuff he wanted to get in Deadfire but couldn't, maybe he wants to tell us Pillars 3 will be groundbreaking and Sawyer will be the Albert Einstein of RPGs.

 

[The Bishop]

Why do people care so much about hard counters, I don't get it. PoE2 is choke full of them. Almost every buff is countered by a debuff to the corresponding stat and vice versa. There are spells and items that give you immunities. Enemies are very commonly immune or resistant to at least something, most notably most skeletons are entirely invulnerable to pierce damage, which is also the type of damage that most ranged weapons do. All that makes you do is just have another weapon set with different damage type to switch to when needed. Put a square peg in a square hole, so much fun.

Ultimately I don't think any of combat system stuff made any difference as far as failure of PoE2 to reach wider audience. The main problem with the whole franchise is simply that it's dull. Obsidian tried so hard to make "mature" setting that they ended up with something entirely devoid of surprise or sense of adventure. PoE2 is better than the first one in regard of lore dumping. However it doesn't help much if all the content is entirely forgettable. Go to an island. Locals are attacked by somebody. You go to attackers to find out that locals are the one to blame. Pass check to avoid fight. Next island. Locals are attacked by somebody. You go to attackers to find... wait didn't I do this before?

 

[The Bishop]

I get why Sawyer was trying to make his own systems rather than piggybacking off of games that were originally designed to be turn-based. The "market" said that RTwP games sold better and that's what the IE games he was trying to "capture the spirit of" used, so if he had to make a RTwP game he figured it would be better if he stopped trying to force the square peg of RTwP into the round hole of rule sets that were designed around turn-based play by using rules designed around real-time combat from the ground up.

Somehow the end result was the system that fits RTwP even worse than AD&D. The biggest offender is variable duration for everything. You start with an already arbitrary number which is then modulated by INT, empower, graze, crit, items, abilities. It's a mess and the only way to keep track of all the different buffs and debuffs running out is to pause and recheck all the characters on the screen one by one every few seconds. And then you get to the point when UI can't list all the active effects and you need to go to character screen. Couple that with teleportation abilities being very cheap and common. A lvl 20 rogue in PoE2 can warp around the battlefield 12 times before running out of gas. Many fights just tie in a one big knot of engagements right from the beginning and there isn't much you can do about it. It's a clusterfuck by design. Sawyer did spell out his motivations for the system, and there were some noble goals that he tried to achieve with it. However I don't remember "it works better with RTwP" being one of them, and regardless, it clearly wasn't the end result anyway.

 

[vortex]

For those that missed it: It Takes an Abbey: Developing Pentiment with a (Small) Remote Team
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeg51A61wSs

After Pillars of Eternity 3 gets a release, I'm expecting Sawyer to do an aftermath video: It Takes an Eternity: Developing Pilllars 3 with an AAAA team

 

[Zero Credibility]

That old story again, eh? And just when I blissfully forgot PoE even existed. What's next, another PoE codex review?

 

[Immortal]

That old story again, eh? And just when I blissfully forgot PoE even existed. What's next, another PoE codex review?

I mean.. what do you expect when you open a sawyer thread?
Discussion on games that Sawyer didn't make or work on?

Go concern troll somewhere else.

 

[ADULF HITLOR FAN KLUB]

Sawyer is really rocking the creepy intellectual pedophile look.

 

[Tyranicon]

All I got from that photo was that Sawyer really, really likes illuminated manuscripts.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

All I got from that photo was that Sawyer really, really likes illuminated manuscripts.

who doesn't? books are better when they have pretty pictures on them.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I'm late to the conversation, but Josh Soyer blaming the crowd for his shit design decisions on PoE is laughable. The Obsidian forums were practically in revolt over is choices on magic and engagement and they didn't listen one bit. His problem was that he oversold niches for a system he hadn't even designed yet. Calling it half-baked would be too generous by half.

 

[Lagole Gon]

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

The face you make after people make fun of fampyrs being just vampires with different spelling.

 

[agris]

The fact that backers had already paid for an RPG that, in the words of that first Kickstarter(opens in new tab), "pays homage to the great Infinity Engine games of years past", meant Sawyer felt he had to keep Pillars of Eternity retro even in places where he had better ideas. "I did feel a sense of obligation," he said, "but also I felt like I was making bad design decisions ultimately, like I was making a game worse to appeal to the sensibilities of the audience that wanted something ultra nostalgic."

What were these so-called bad design decisions? Because all the things people hate were his new ideas.

I think Josh Sawyer (for lack of a better word) overestimated his audience. He believed that people who'd played Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale (and were willing to crowdfund a spiritual successor to those games) had grown up to become somewhat jaded contrarian gaming intellectuals like him. People who'd appreciate difference for its own sake, especially if it was pushing towards a more "mature" direction.

For example, you might ask "Why muscle wizards?". I think Josh Sawyer would answer to that: "Why not? It's a new mechanic that fits with my design goals, which I've described to you in exhaustive detail. Don't you find that interesting for its own sake? Aren't you people, who were willing to pay for an isometric RPG three years before its release, supposed to be genre connoisseurs would be interested in experimenting with new mechanics? Why aren't you willing to give this a shot?" And the same for numerous other changes and aspects of the game.

What an exhaustive amount of extreme cope from a guy who blew hot air about Pillars for the better part of a decade.

It was mature of Josh to ignore what made the IE games' combat, character building and itemization tick? While actively arguing against us, those who clearly and methodically laid it out bare for him on their forums?

It was mature of him to take the funds raised by nostalgia fishing with the Infinity Engine, then hot-swap the mechanics with all the cooldown driven 2% improvement trash that so hallmarked games made in that period?

 

[Infinitron]

What an exhaustive amount of extreme cope from a guy who blew hot air about Pillars for the better part of a decade.

It was mature of Josh to ignore what made the IE's games combat, character building and itemization tick? While actively arguing against us, those who clearly and methodically laid it out bare for him on their forums?

It was mature of him to take the funds raised by nostalgia fishing with the Infinity Engine, then hot-swap the mechanics with all the cooldown driven 2% improvement trash that so hallmarked games made in that period?

I was thinking primarily about narrative when I used the term "mature" FWIW.

 

[Fedora Master]

Undead babies and gay sex sure makes a game "mature"

Even Soyer realized his shit smells, meanwhile half the Cuckdex insists he shat out sunshine and roses.

 

[agris]

People who'd appreciate difference for its own sake, especially if it was pushing towards a more "mature" direction.

For example, you might ask "Why muscle wizards?"

I was thinking primarily about narrative when I used the term "mature" FWIW.

 

[Infinitron]

C'mon, agris.

The essential part of that sentence:

People who'd appreciate difference for its own sake

And then:

especially if it was pushing towards a more "mature" direction.

Especially, but not exclusively.

I don't think this is really controversial. Josh basically thought the audience was like his friends on the Something Awful gaming subforums, ie, people who are fairly committed gamers but are also open to new experiences and willing to follow along with his newfangled designs.

(And idk, maybe he wasn't entirely wrong either. In the end the game does have highly positive ratings on Steam. This whole debate is just about POE1 not being enough of a mega crowd-pleaser to successfully sell a bigger budget sequel, which is something many developers struggle with.)

 

[Shadenuat]

Wasnt sa who written 7 reviews, so whos really was open to possibility of gaem being good?

 

[NecroLord]

Josh Soyer reflects on selling his soul and becoming a soy cuck, a mere shadow of the competent game designer he was.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Josh Soyer reflects on selling his soul and becoming a soy cuck, a mere shadow of the competent game designer he was.

I was with you until the last part of this sentence; Sawyer was at best a competent manager, and Pediment Pentiment is the ultimate expression of his game design.

 

[NecroLord]

Josh Soyer reflects on selling his soul and becoming a soy cuck, a mere shadow of the competent game designer he was.

I was with you until the last part of this sentence; Sawyer was at best a competent manager, and Pediment Pentiment is the ultimate expression of his game design.

For me it's the Icewind Dale games and Neverwinter Nights.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

I am pleased that in my absence, so many others took up the torch of Soyer hate.

 

[Chippy]

I've pretty much forgotten about POE, despite being a retard myself at the time and gold-backing it. How naive I was in my younger years.

But one thing I always remember from the half-day I spent playing POE was - the fucking walls of text every time you clicked on something. Sawyer should have been fired just for that.

And don't even think about making comparisons to PST because it isn't even apples and oranges. It would be like comparing dogshit to gold.