Development Info Josh Sawyer's GDC 2016 talk about attribute tuning in Pillars of Eternity

[l3loodAngel]

Someone obviously needs to test this out right away. If I had been wasting points on INT when it could have been yet another dump stat I am going to be mad.

IIR it was enforced by spell levels and amount of spells you get to cast. However, i played some time so I am not completely sure.

 

[Excidium II]

Someone obviously needs to test this out right away. If I had been wasting points on INT when it could have been yet another dump stat I am going to be mad.

But int affects other stuff like how many spells slots you can have, lore and spell inscription failure chance. Granted the last one you can just savescum, I know we all did.

 

[MrE]

It's a poor comparison, though. You have a party of six characters under your full control in this type of game. Forget bad builds, even if you completely refuse to use your character you're still only losing 1/6th of your party's potential power.

Like I've said before, I believe this is why folks on this forum really like these new single-character RPGs like AoD and Underrail. Every difference in your character build is something you really feel, because that's all you've got. You'll never get that "omg, I created a different character and combat is entirely different now!" feel in a party-based RPG, that's just not how these games work.

(This may also explain the popularity of those BG2 mage duels. What BG2 does in effect is collapse the Baldur's Gate gameplay from a party-based RPG down to a single character RPG where every decision you make on how to configure one single character (your mage) has a powerful impact. If he has the right spell, you live. If he doesn't, you die.)

What a bunch on bullshit. Different party compositions make plenty of difference.

FeelTheRads has got a point. Even in Fallout, where you don't control your party members directly, you get a lot of variety based on what characters you take along (also with respect to how high you set your CHA), which is probably especially visible in combat as there are some really shit fighters available. But I spent most time playing BG as, you guessed it, a mage, so maybe there's something about that craving for influence too.

 

[oldmanpaco]

spell inscription failure chance. Granted the last one you can just savescum, I know we all did.

Savescumming is so plebeian. No I BGTweaked that right out of there.

To be honest I have never dumped a stat to 3. I rarely go below 8 when making a char because roll-playing and all.

 

[Shadenuat]

It doesn't, none of the mages in BG2 have 18 int (except maybe Edwin?) and they still can cast level 9 spells and beyond once you get HLA.

You still need to meet the int minimums to have a wizard of course.

You need high int to learn spells from scrolls, not to cast them.

 

[Excidium II]

spell inscription failure chance. Granted the last one you can just savescum, I know we all did.

Savescumming is so plebeian. No I BGTweaked that right out of there.

To be honest I have never dumped a stat to 3. I rarely go below 8 when making a char because roll-playing and all.

Yeah, I don't do it either. It's really easy to get absurd rolls in BG anyway, specially if you don't have percentile strength.

 

[Roguey]

You need high int to learn spells from scrolls, not to cast them.

The companions have no problem learning level 9 spells from scrolls.

 

[Excidium II]

You need high int to learn spells from scrolls, not to cast them.

The companions have no problem learning level 9 spells from scrolls.

Isn't it just some RNG? You don't get locked out of learning, just lowered chance regardless of spell level.

I think if you int stat is low enough it gets to 0%, but of course no mage will get to that point since you need 9 int to qualify to the class in the first place.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

You need high int to learn spells from scrolls, not to cast them.

The companions have no problem learning level 9 spells from scrolls.

Something fixed by Beamdog



https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/21711/bg2-ee-no-more-9th-lvl-or-hla-spells-without-18-int

 

[Shadenuat]

I remember using +3 int potion just recently on someone (Aerie? Neera?) to learn spells.
Oh right I think it's the maximum amount of spells you can actually scribe into spellbook which it affects, otherwise you'll have to delete spells from spellbook.

You need high int to learn spells from scrolls, not to cast them.

The companions have no problem learning level 9 spells from scrolls.

Something fixed by Beamdog



https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/21711/bg2-ee-no-more-9th-lvl-or-hla-spells-without-18-int

Ah, that's why I had to give potions to Neera.

 

[Excidium II]

lol gg caster companions that aren't Edwin.

 

[Shadenuat]

lol gg caster companions that aren't Edwin.

They can still cast them even with 17 int, just can't scribe them.

 

[Excidium II]

Ah I see.

 

[Roguey]

I guess that gives one a reason to use potions of genius if you mod out the RNG on the spell scribing.

 

[Excidium II]

The table http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Intelligence

 

[Murk]

Savescumming? Just drop difficulty for the scribing then raise it back up.

 

[Excidium II]

I'm superstitious about messing with difficulty.

 

[Lhynn]

A high Might score that increases both melee damage and ranged damage might not make sense, but it nevertheless indicates a character who is physically strong (ie, he'll be described as strong in dialogues, will be able to pass dialogue stat checks for lifting heavy things, etc).

You conveniently left Magic damage out, because the most damaging wizards are obviously also body-builders. That fails at realism, simulationism and everything in general, except BALANCE!!!11

He also left out guns damage out. and crossbows damage out. As if your muscles made bullets and bolts fly faster somehow. Retarded system that utterly failed at everything it set out to do.

 

[Roguey]

Might increases physical and spiritual strength and your ranged attacks are imbued with your spiritual power.

 

[Excidium II]

Might increases physical and spiritual strength and your ranged attacks are imbued with your spiritual power.

Every pellet, imbued with the power of your soul~

 

[Veelq]

Mighty Wizard

 

[MrE]

A high Might score that increases both melee damage and ranged damage might not make sense, but it nevertheless indicates a character who is physically strong (ie, he'll be described as strong in dialogues, will be able to pass dialogue stat checks for lifting heavy things, etc).

You conveniently left Magic damage out, because the most damaging wizards are obviously also body-builders. That fails at realism, simulationism and everything in general, except BALANCE!!!11

He also left out guns damage out. and crossbows damage out. As if your muscles made bullets and bolts fly faster somehow. Retarded system that utterly failed at everything it set out to do.

He left them out, no doubt about that. But, even if that doesn't make any sense for spells, it might (hehe) be considered relevant in case of guns and crossbows in a way. After you shoot a few times your muscles are going to feel it (especially if you perform an Aimed Shot, which takes more AP due to time to aiming obviously, though PoE doesn't have an equivalent), your aim is going to get gradually worse, let's say per encounter. So perhaps it should affect accuracy rather than damage dealt but there's something about it. Not trying to defend anyone, just applying a real life perspective.

 

[Lhynn]

Might increases physical and spiritual strength and your ranged attacks are imbued with your spiritual power.

And how do you even do that? the process of imbuing soul power is never explained in the game, and animals dont have anything resembling soul powers, which is also never explained in the game. Can you even imagine the power of a bears spell? lets remember that intelligence isnt important to learn magic, so even plants could conceivably cast spells. lets also remember that might isnt needed to be able to lift a maul for example, so even a kid could use it with no problems.

Do i need to keep going? because you playing smartass over shit that you know doesnt make sense gets stale sometimes.

The whole system is a lazy lie by sawyer to keep people from realizing theres no actual attribute system, only a "pick your combat bonuses" screen.

 

[Excidium II]

He left them out, no doubt about that. But, even if that doesn't make any sense for spells, it might (hehe) be considered relevant in case of guns and crossbows in a way. After you shoot a few times your muscles are going to feel it (especially if you perform an Aimed Shot, which takes more AP due to time to aiming obviously, though PoE doesn't have an equivalent), your aim is going to get gradually worse, let's say per encounter. So perhaps it should affect accuracy rather than damage dealt but there's something about it. Not trying to defend anyone, just applying a real life perspective.

It could affect recovery time.

 

[Roguey]

Might increases physical and spiritual strength and your ranged attacks are imbued with your spiritual power.

And how do you even do that? the process of imbuing soul power is never explained in the game, and animals dont have anything resembling soul powers, which is also never explained in the game. Can you even imagine the power of a bears spell? lets remember that intelligence isnt important to learn magic, so even plants could conceivably cast spells. lets also remember that might isnt needed to be able to lift a maul for example, so even a kid could use it with no problems.

Do i need to keep going? because you playing smartass over shit that you know doesnt make sense gets stale sometimes.

The whole system is a lazy lie by sawyer to keep people from realizing theres no actual attribute system, only a "pick your combat bonuses" screen.

It's an abstraction.