KickStarter Jupiter Hell - DoomRL successor

[Darth Roxor]

MY NAME IS DEATH

splatted the cryomancer in 2 hits

 

[xuerebx]

How the fuck do you have 4 weapon slots?

How did you get 100 damage output prior to the cryomancer?

How u so gd?!

 

[Hobo Elf]

Any pointers? I've done several runs with the Marine so far. Furthest I got was the Spaceport. I get the best results when I dump the first two levels into Hellrunner. Tried different approaches, too, but without the mitigation and utility from Hellrunner I tend to get whittled down. Mostly been trying to work toward Army of Darkness for Chainsaw and Shotty action, but I've only twice gotten to a high enough level to unlock it. Also the Marine's special Adrenaline skill seems a bit meh overall.

Edit: Not necessarily looking for a step-by-step guide on how to win, but some general pointers like what kind of things I could consider when I'm building up my dude. What are good master traits for X playstyle (melee vs ranged, what weapons benefit the most out of it, what's better at the early game and what pays off later). Many of them are pretty self-explanatory, but some might have nuances that I'm not considering yet.

 

[Darth Roxor]

How the fuck do you have 4 weapon slots?

Hoarder.

How did you get 100 damage output prior to the cryomancer?

100? With the ancient mod and my other machete it's 180!

How u so gd?!

If only. I was this close to winning this run, but then all my armour broke on Dante level 3, and I knew that if I just make it to the final level I'll win for sure thanks to the freebie marine armour at the start of it.

I got zapped to death by the last three enemies guarding the exit. FFS.

Any pointers? I've done several runs with the Marine so far. Furthest I got was the Spaceport. I get the best results when I dump the first two levels into Hellrunner. Tried different approaches, too, but without the mitigation and utility from Hellrunner I tend to get whittled down. Mostly been trying to work toward Army of Darkness for Chainsaw and Shotty action, but I've only twice gotten to a high enough level to unlock it. Also the Marine's special Adrenaline skill seems a bit meh overall.

Edit: Not necessarily looking for a step-by-step guide on how to win, but some general pointers like what kind of things I could consider when I'm building up my dude. What are good master traits for X playstyle (melee vs ranged, what weapons benefit the most out of it, what's better at the early game and what pays off later). Many of them are pretty self-explanatory, but some might have nuances that I'm not considering yet.

Personally I find the marine the most boring of the classes. If you're going to invest a lot into Hellrunner you might prefer to check the scout because he's much more focused on speed and doge.

 

[xuerebx]

Hmm scout instead of marine? I might just try that out - I always go for hell runner / onslaught anyway.

 

[Hobo Elf]

I'm finding the Scout significantly more fun than the Marine. Upgrading traits and gear for pistol stuff at least for now works quite nicely. Max / Optimal range and sniping bad guys from afar with crit hits is fun. The Stealth skill is way more interesting than Adrenaline, and useful. I still keep dying to the robot boss in the Valhalla Starport level, but at least I understand how it works mechanically now. Just gotta get the execution right.

Edit: Beat the game on Medium as a Scout. Good shit.

 

[xuerebx]

Finally beat the game for the first time - on the 25 hour mark (hard, marine). I played the trial of haste and the game ends at "Beyond" (instead of "Dante" according to the game mode settings), but the end-game was quite easy after obtaining the Void weapon (no ammo + onslaught = win?). I'll try out scout now, on the regular playthrough.

102 deaths, 5400 kills (for 1 win). Ehh, could be better.

 

[Darth Roxor]

the end-game was quite easy

Yeah now try it for real with Dante, and don't forget to go into Dante Inferno

 

[xuerebx]

I suspect that will take me another 30 hours

 

[buffalo bill]

I just started seriously playing this game the past week or so, and got my first win on hard a minute ago (100% kills and 100% special level completion) with a melee-focused Marine with the survivor master trait (though tbh I'm not sure how useful that master trait actually was). Got the soulstealer from the shattered abyss, which made the rest of the game a piece of cake. Was doing like 250 damage or something by the final boss (though I didn't check damage output at that point unfortunately, so I'm sort of guessing). Also had exosuit armor, which was nice, and the exalted status (and tons of other permanents for most resistances). Was hoping to get mephitic mines to upgrade to poison aura, but it didn't roll. Must reiterate that soulstealer is mad OP. Before this I was mainly trying to get a Technician pistol build going, and did get one of these characters to the final boss, but then got chewed up by missiles while I was screwing around with the summons.

I've played a ton of DoomRL before this (like probably thousands of hours, and *cough cough* I have nearly as many angelic badges as tormuse, the player with the most confirmed angelic badges on the chaos forge forum), and I can't help compare the two games. There are things about Jupiter Hell that feel causalized compared to DoomRL: no diagonal movement, no way to empty ammo from weapons, movement gives a dodge bonus regardless of how you are moving relative to the enemy (this is likely related to the lack of diagonal movement), and some other things I'm forgetting rn (these are the big offenders imo, especially no diagonal movement which is insane/idiotic). Also some weird QOL things that are cut from DRL, like not being able to use modpacks directly from off of the ground. Another big one is no way to run-wait for x turns (or until an enemy is spotted), which is a very important strategy in high-difficulty DoomRL challenges.

But other additions are welcome of course, most notably the addition of status effects that are not present in DoomRL. They are cool and add a new gameplay dimension.

Neutral changes: cover works differently (and it probably makes more sense in Jupiter Hell, but I think I nonetheless prefer how cover works in Doomrl better). There seems to be no way to easily get rid of corpses without gibbing them, which I suspect will make nightmare runs much harder, especially if going for 100% completion (and even more especially, without run-wait). But I suppose that getting rid of corpses by killing enemies in doorways or in pools of water in DoomRL was a bit cheap (and an accidental thing that was never removed from the game iirc).

GFX-wise, Jupiter Hell is a mess to look at compared to DoomRL imo. The enemies are often not very clearly differentiated, and it is not always obvious what obstacles are in a room, etc. I'm probably in the minority, but I would love for Jupiter Hell to include an ASCII option, which is how I play DoomRL.

Overall cool game, but a bit causalized compared to its dad. I think I'll probably go back to DRL to try for everyman angelic or quartermaster angelic after I get a nightmare win in JH.

 

[Darth Roxor]

though tbh I'm not sure how useful that master trait actually was

I think my first win ever was with survivor (though that was in EA before the introduction of Dante), and all I can say is you start respecting it when you are surrounded by coxic reavers, get Poison 24 and don't die.

Must reiterate that soulstealer is mad OP.

Please, fren, it's small beans compared to my double AV3 deadly hallowed katanas

Another big one is no way to run-wait for x turns (or until an enemy is spotted), which is a very important strategy in high-difficulty DoomRL challenges.

Please elaborate because unless I'm missing something I'm pretty sure you're wrong.

I'm probably in the minority, but I would love for Jupiter Hell to include an ASCII option, which is how I play DoomRL.

It was originally meant to have an ASCII option, but they dropped it eventually, guess they figured not enough people cared.

 

[buffalo bill]

Another big one is no way to run-wait for x turns (or until an enemy is spotted), which is a very important strategy in high-difficulty DoomRL challenges.

Please elaborate because unless I'm missing something I'm pretty sure you're wrong.

Doomrl has a command to wait x turns (I think it is typically set to 10 turns, but I usually modify it to wait essentially endless turns until I give a cancel command or an enemy appears) with w+5 (or w + whatever you have 'wait a turn' keybound to). As far as I can tell, there is no similar command in Jupiter Hell, and I found some other people complaining about it in a quick google.

btw no doubt there are some other melee weapons capable of doing similar or greater damage per turn to a fully upgraded very-endgame soulstealer, but any additional damage would be irrelevant. I one shotted every form of the harbinger boss (I believe). In doomrl, melee is also the highest dps, with various routes to get there (fully modded chainsaw or one of the uniques from the cathedral)

If there is a way to run-wait, please let me know!! (it is entirely possible that I am idiotically just missing something obvious)
would be very helpful for future playthroughs

 

[Darth Roxor]

Doomrl has a command to wait x turns (I think it is typically set to 10 turns, but I usually modify it to wait essentially endless turns until I give a cancel command or an enemy appears) with w+5 (or w + whatever you have 'wait a turn' keybound to). As far as I can tell, there is no similar command in Jupiter Hell, and I found some other people complaining about it in a quick google.

Okay, nevermind, then it doesn't have that. I was thinking of just the regular 1-turn wait when pressing "."

 

[getter77]

Full mod support of late with the latest update, Fuller with the next depending on what sort/if people run into roadblocks---people already working on bringing Assemblies over from DRL and who knows what else. ASCII mode theoretically still coming IIRC.

 

[Reality]

Dislike 1.7 so far for making gane easier

Most of the new stuff (buffing shotgun and chaingun) is fine but the "common mod stations can make vampire/cold" is way too goiod... Puts gane in autopilot mode and can happen really early like floor 3

 

[Darth Roxor]

"common mod stations can make vampire/cold"

That's insane.

 

[buffalo bill]

Just beat angel of light travel on ultraviolence with 100% kills using a marine vampyre (which got me the lightfoot platinum badge). Got the poison aura from the mephitic mines AND firecrown, so I was lighting everything on fire in vision and poisoning everything in melee range (even through walls, which made medusa and archmedusa trivial). Not that that was even necessary, since I was one-shotting everything with my chainsaw even before I got soulstealer (which eventually had a damage output of 300-ish), and getting massive amounts of health from level three vampyre. TBH I think angel of light travel made the game easier, I just had to be slightly smarter about ammo and medpack usage early on. Oh also I got a nano pack and a railgun on the same level, but never even used it! I think this build is better for melee than survivor, since with optimal (or even just minimally non-stupid) play you shouldn't ever really be in the health range where survivor will proc.

Now that I have a better grasp of the cover mechanic and how to deal with medusa, it will make a nightmare run more viable for me. Will probably try angel of marksmanship on ultraviolence first though, since I've had some fairly successful pistol runs.

Also I realized that you can use mod packs off the ground with shift+G! I am an idiot!

Another thought about how this game relates to DRL: shotguns seem way less viable in JH due to the lack of knockback. I wonder if knockback is not in this game because of the lack of diagonal movement, or if it is a more intentional balancing decision. Kind of sucks, though.

 

[buffalo bill]

Just got my first diamond badge! I beat the arena on ultraviolence.

After figuring out a strategy, it was actually pretty easy: used a scout with the goal of getting gunrunner, and used the grenade launcher almost exclusively until the third stage (spending basically all my multitools to make 40mm grenades, until the end of stage 2 when I made as many energy cells as I could). Then I used the manufacturing station to make an AV3 plasma rifle, which luckily had both lethal and hunter on it! By the final stage I had hellrunner 3, gunrunner 2, and dodgemaster 3, so I basically just stood in the open and danced around at a distance, shooting in between volleys. Gunrunner rules.

Really the only worry I had was at the very very end, when I got down to twentysomething health from a stupid move into fire, and the exalted warlock was chasing me around the map. Its health didn't seem to be dropping at all, and I was running out of energy cells, but eventually it lingered in a corner and I fired a bunch of rockets from out of its vision range. When it moved into my vision, it had almost no health, and one more rocket killed it. Hell yeah.

I think the lightfoot diamond badge looks doable, and I've barely played on Nightmare yet, so that's probably next.

 

[buffalo bill]

and right away I got my first Nightmare win, along with a second diamond badge, with a masterless Angel of Carnage run. Rolled a marine, invested in army surplus then wizkid then son of a gun to get over 100% critical chance, slayed everything. Found a microlauncher at some point. I was trying to do this challenge with a toxicologist technician, but tbh I find that playstyle way too boring and I end up fucking it up by rushing. This diamond was way easier than the arena one, especially since nightmare gives you extra ammo (which is the main usual problem with angel of carnage), and almost all the early-level enemies can be gibbed wich direct hits from rockets

 

[Darth Roxor]

Angel of Carnage is one of the easier ones to finish, I think my ultraviolence AoC run still remains my highest score playthrough. Though for the record that was still in early access before the whizkid nerf, and back then you could get toxic blast on your launcher with whizkid, which was doubleplus crazy since the poison clouds also double up as a smokescreen.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Was the Marine buffed recently? I feel like their traits are more useful/interesting now than last time I played.

 

[buffalo bill]

Just got JoviSec Diamond for beating a regular game on nightmare as explorer, as well as CRI platinum for over 90% kills on Nightmare. Tbh these badges are way way way easier than the highest or even second-highest tier badges in DoomRL.

It does feel like the marine is the best class for regular games, but the other classes have situational uses. In particular, I don't think I could have beaten the arena on ultraviolence without a scout gunrunner. And my best pistol builds are technicians—I've never been able to get a dual gunning marine or scout rolling at higher difficulties.

 

[Serus]

Ok, i started remembering a bit, finished the game on normal. I had a victory on hard but that was quite some time ago. I'm a slow to learn but fast to forget. The end game was a joke. I was running an onslaught build and then i found "Apocalypse", unique rotary/plasma weapon. On normal everything dies in one shot, sometimes several enemies at once since the weapon does splash damage. The end boss took maybe 10 seconds without even stopping to think for a second, i lost ~30 health with 130 max. A monkey could have made it once i got that unique thing.
Time for hard difficulty.

 

[xuerebx]

Ok, i started remembering a bit, finished the game on normal. I had a victory on hard but that was quite some time ago. I'm a slow to learn but fast to forget. The end game was a joke. I was running an onslaught build and then i found "Apocalypse", unique rotary/plasma weapon. On normal everything dies in one shot, sometimes several enemies at once since the weapon does splash damage. The end boss took maybe 10 seconds without even stopping to think for a second, i lost ~30 health with 130 max. A monkey could have made it once i got that unique thing.
Time for hard difficulty.

Yeah I also felt that the last area was very easy after I picked up a rotary weapon with infinite ammo. In fact I thought there was a "this isn't even my final form" catch.

 

[Optimist]

Finding a legendary that, however roughly, fits your playstyle seems to all but guarantee a win. I'm... not that great at the game - each time I managed to score a win, was thanks to finding a green gun.