Game News Kickstarter Drama: Conquistador, Shadowrun and Eisenwald

[Metro]

How about you calm down? I know Cassidy didn't donate. Did you? If so, great, but you're in the minority. Most of the people who did don't seem to care as 'evidenced' by their posts in this thread. Not a surprise. This is the Codex where people like to bitch incessantly but when it comes time to put their money where their mouth is they don't buy into DRM free classic games.

 

[skuphundaku]

How about you calm down? I know Cassidy didn't donate. Did you? Most of the people who did don't seem to care as 'evidenced' by their posts in this thread. Not a surprise. This is the Codex where people like to bitch incessantly but when it comes time to put their money where their mouth is they don't buy into DRM free classic games.

It's not your business whether I donated or not, but FYI, I donated a shitload to all these projects, and to many others. When you'll donate the same as I do, and then the devs do a bait&switch after they have your money and take a shit on what is important to you, then come back to me.

 

[Metro]

Like I said, you're in the minority. Doesn't mean you don't have a legitimate gripe but even in these two cases they still aren't forcing Steam on anyone.

 

[skuphundaku]

Like I said, you're in the minority. Doesn't mean you don't have a legitimate gripe but even in these two cases they still aren't forcing Steam on anyone.

Yes, they're not forcing Steam on me and on other KS donors now, but they will when they release anything past the Berlin campaign. Also, they'll force Steam on everybody who buys the game post-release. Many KS donors, when they pledge for "DRM-free", they take that as "DRM-free for everyone", not "DRM-free for me and screw everybody else". It's a matter of principle. Otherwise, what they do was to sell the DRM-free at massive price (up to thousands of dollars per ultra-risky pre-order copy) and DRM-infected at retail price. This is not DRM-free, this is pay-it-through-your-nose-if-you-want-DRM-free, which is far beyond standard run-of-the-mill dick moves.

 

[FeelTheRads]

You can probably count on one hand the number of people who are complaining in this thread that actually gave to these kickstarters.

Ah, yes, obviously. Because it's perfectly normal that you're basically forced to use the Steam version, even if you get the DRM-free one also, if you want to get the DLC, and only irrational people don't agree with it. DRM-free in this case was bullshitting to get more backers since they perfectly knew that once the first DLC is released the DRM-free version will be crippled.

And before theses issues happened these were perfect examples of where people could give their money directly to developers in exchange for DRM free games... but didn't.

What the fuck are you talking about? Who does this? Where exactly do you send that money? And to whom? Do they have a "for pirates with morals" bank account?

We can only hope that the non-backer preorders from here on out only get the option of a steam key to complete the cycle of butthurt.

Why stop there? Why not make Kickstarters with always online DRM for backers too? After all, you're just helping fund the game, you deserve to be treated like a thief.

 

[Metro]

Metro has gone full derp since some time.

Irony.

Irony indeed Metro.

Irony indeed indeed, Captain Shrek.

What the fuck are you talking about? Who does this? Where exactly do you send that money? And to whom? Do they have a "for pirates with morals" bank account?

Uh... the Kickstarter money goes to the developers (less a transaction percentage fee by KS/Amazon but welcome to 21st century commerce).

 

[almondblight]

What they do not tell you (and my main reason to be 'upset') is that the beta Logic Artists released on the day the game was supposed to come out was a shitty disaster of bugs and crashes to the desktop (over 500 bugs were reported just in the week after launch). This is a question was never answered by the developers and the reason I stopped to even care: How anybody in his sane mind would consider that build a 'finished' game ready to be released? Wasn't this supposed to always happen due the evil nature of publishers? Actually, in this case, having a publisher might as well mean that the game will be released in a 'finished' state.

Maybe they should have spent their time fixing the bugs instead of adding multiplayer (which they apparently were working on for months). But hey, who the hell cares what I think:

First off, regardless of how many people wanted multiplayer in the game, WE wanted it.

 

[Curious_Tongue]

Metro has gone full derp since some time.

Irony.

Nah, you!

 

[Ulminati]

So what's the next thing people are going to bitch and whine about? Banner saga releasing a f2p multiplayer component which was part of their original pitch and mentioned several times in their updates and FAQ during the funding? I bet their line of reasoning will go something like this:

"BAWWWWWW EVIL KS PEOPLE USED MY MONEY OTHER PEOPLES MONEY BECAUSE I'M A FILTHY PIRATE TO DEVELOP ASSETS FOR A GAME!"

 

[Wizfall]

FeelTheRads or the irrational logic.
You are not forced to buy unneeded DLC (and remember DLC is decline ! you wouldn't want to support the decline ?) so you are perfectly free to enjoy your 100% incline DRM free functional experience that the kickstarter was all about.
But yey you can only be pure incline if you were a believer in the first place.
Cry more

 

[Excidium]

FeelTheRads or the irrational logic.
You are not forced to buy unneeded DLC (and remember DLC is decline ! you wouldn't want to support the decline ?)

He'd probably want to play the modules that use the DLC content.

 

[Curious_Tongue]

Except their original post stated that the reason was because Steam was so awesome and that they didn't have the resources that Spiderweb software or Basilisk Games have to have to create non-Steam distribution. Now they're saying that they do have those resources, but that their license doesn't allow a DRM-free version. Only it actually does allow DRM-free versions for the initial release and for Berlin...but they're sure they won't be able to work out a similar deal a year from now when the first DLC comes out because...umm...some reason.

Developers have to know their place when dealing with publishing juggernauts. It's better to say "Steams's Awesum!" than "We're dealing with a pissed off publisher who didn't like that we put them on the spot by offering their licensed IP without DRM, and this compromise is the best they're going to offer us."

Microsoft doesn't support the DRM free movement, and why would they?

 

[FeelTheRads]

Uh... the Kickstarter money goes to the developers (less a transaction percentage fee by KS/Amazon but welcome to 21st century commerce).

Ah, thought you were on about that "send money straight to developers" thing again.

But yeah, totally agree, obviously whoever disagrees with this didn't back anything, it's only reasonable to be pissed off when you didn't spend any money, but definitely those who did will never be mindlessly defensive about it. No sir.

See, this brilliant guy here gets it:

"BAWWWWWW EVIL KS PEOPLE USED MY MONEY OTHER PEOPLES MONEY BECAUSE I'M A FILTHY PIRATE TO DEVELOP ASSETS FOR A GAME!"

Indeed, sir.

 

[FeelTheRads]

FeelTheRads or the irrational logic.
You are not forced to buy unneeded DLC (and remember DLC is decline ! you wouldn't want to support the decline ?) so you are perfectly free to enjoy your 100% incline DRM free functional experience that the kickstarter was all about.
But yey you can only be pure incline if you were a believer in the first place.
Cry more

Everything is great because I have no problems with it or the retarded logic.
The point is that the DRM-free version will be crippled. It's basically saying "yeah, here, take this chewed up bone" to people without whom the game will have never been made in the first place. No, not everyone of those will care, but hey, fuck those who do, right? Because it's totally impossible to not love Steam to death.

 

[Drowed]

The complete game in every way (with all the intended functions) + an extra expansion that will be offered to everyone who participated in the kickstarter = "chewed up bone"/"crippled".
...






BIG EDIT: To be clear, it is obvious that any person is entitled to like or dislike the Steam. The problem isn't even the hatred of the application, the problem is that the comparisons are disproportionate, and the excessive reaction to the announcement.

"Oh, then the expansions will only be released for STEAM? That sucks, a lot." Yeah, true. "Damn these traitorous, misleading inconsequential bastards, who cheated and broke all the dreams I had about a world where most publishers would not exist". This is stupid.

What strikes me is that most of this "anger" isn't about the alleged "broken promises" (which didn't happen), but comes from the shattered expectations that were creating surreal visions about the future of the market. Things like, since they did *one* game using kickstarter, all their future games should also be done this way, eveyone should say "fuck you" to all existing publishers and live forever in the magical world of independent producers.

But seeing that in the real world things don't work that well, some are butthurt about it, to see that this imaginary future will not happen.

 

[May God Gently Caress You]

Self-funded companies exist in real world. So, it's about how we discern which project is unlikely to be done without the interference of publishers since unrealistic plans are almost doomed to end up with further investment and/or eventual failure.

That said, even bigger publishers began to invest on something like M&M Legacy. If "independent" projects end up with dealing with publishers, from the viewpoint of consumers, products with these targeted marketing would offer a better choice since they don't need to throw their money in a rather blind way unlike crowd-funding. At least, now, I think it became harder for projects without big names to gather money through crowd-funding. If even projects with big names began to fail, crowd-funding will have much less meaning, at least, for video game genre. Then again, there are still rooms for Spiderweb Software and Iron Tower Studio.

 

[Dehumanizer]

I find it weird that some people treat Steam like it was StarForce or something. There's a difference between opposing draconian DRM, and treating simple one-time online activation like it was the end of the world.

 

[Spectacle]

Many people who back a project because it promises "DRM free" do it because they're against the very concept of DRM, not just because they don't want to deal with DRM themselves. Keeping the fact that the game will have DRM when it is sold to non backers secret during the kickstarter campaign is dishonest.

 

[Wizfall]

FeelTheRads or the irrational logic.
You are not forced to buy unneeded DLC (and remember DLC is decline ! you wouldn't want to support the decline ?) so you are perfectly free to enjoy your 100% incline DRM free functional experience that the kickstarter was all about.
But yey you can only be pure incline if you were a believer in the first place.
Cry more

Everything is great because I have no problems with it or the retarded logic.
The point is that the DRM-free version will be crippled. It's basically saying "yeah, here, take this chewed up bone" to people without whom the game will have never been made in the first place. No, not everyone of those will care, but hey, fuck those who do, right? Because it's totally impossible to not love Steam to death.

False analysis again and false supposition...again...
Personally I don't care about Steam used as a pure distribution system (the few games 100% DRM free on Steam).
I won't buy any game on Steam that use their DRM component though (so 99% of all their catalog hehe).
I only got one game on Steam (F:NV), dislike a lot their DRM policy/system. Never bought another game there.
HBS has been sneaky as hell about their Microsoft issue IMO, i'm very unhappy about it but they still provide exactly what they promised to the backer.
The deal has been respected, saying the game is crippled would be like saying i backed a cripple game.
It's totally wrong and as much as dislike the DLC issue (DLC with DRM that i will never buy) i, as every backer, got what they pledge for.
Totally unfair/dishonest to say otherwise and putting it on the same level that the other 2 kickstarters here.

 

[Wizfall]

Many people who back a project because it promises "DRM free" do it because they're against the very concept of DRM, not just because they don't want to deal with DRM themselves. Keeping the fact that the game will have DRM when it is sold to non backers secret during the kickstarter campaign is dishonest.

I will not say many people and as much that i found that dishonest too, i found dishonest to assert it was a part of the deal.
On the other hand i heard they are ready to give refund if you ask them, how dishonest is that ?

 

[Jasede]

Many people who back a project because it promises "DRM free" do it because they're against the very concept of DRM, not just because they don't want to deal with DRM themselves. Keeping the fact that the game will have DRM when it is sold to non backers secret during the kickstarter campaign is dishonest.

I have 0 problems with DRM or Steam-
But I still think this is somewhat misleading and almost immoral - and as such can completely understand the sentiments.

If in theory I pledge my support to something that promises not to do X, but they do X- well, then my trust has been undermined and that company is not trustworthy ever again.

 

[Angthoron]

I don't know what to think about this DLC stuff, myself.

If it's reasonably-sized "modules", side-adventures and the likes, you know, like you have adventure books in pnp games, then why not? As long as it's well done and brings enough content to the table that's actually new, I'm actually all for it, and if it's competently made and I liked the core game, I'll buy it. DLC on its own isn't evil, it's what people typically do with it that is.

On the other hand, if it's stuff like Cyborg Pony Armor and various assorted lazy shit like that, then fuck those people and I'll never support them in any way ever again, because they took something that had a chance to be great and just wiped their ass with it. Sure, it's still great, but now there's shit smeared all over it.

 

[Avantre]

As long as I enjoy the actual game, I really don't give a toss about saves and DRM and all of this extraneous drama.

 

[Brayko]

As long as I enjoy the actual game, I really don't give a toss about saves and DRM and all of this extraneous drama.

That's what the Germans said about Hitler. "I don't care if our rights are trampled as long our economy picks up and we are fed".

 

[Infinitron]

godwin in da house