Game News Kickstarter Drama: Conquistador, Shadowrun and Eisenwald

[Brayko]

Was gonna edit something like that but you beat me to it you sly dog you.

But still *Nazi mysticism* You can't ignore the fact!

 

[General Maxson]

I do care, and don't like this. When them game comes out, and patches and expansions, and even their DLC, they will be judged, and I'll decide will I ever support them again. But they already have a big (-) for lying/concealing the truth during their campaign in order to get more $$$. So the game must be awesome, and their DLC must be proper add-ons, not some shit money grabbing scheme to buy superficial shit for 5.99$. If they start nickel and dimming, they'll probably never see my money again.

 

[skuphundaku]

As long as I enjoy the actual game, I really don't give a toss about saves and DRM and all of this extraneous drama.

This is why we can't have good things.

 

[Roguey]

ITT people are very upset because they can't purchase hypothetical DLC.

 

[mbpopolano24]

Fuck if I will ever understand this. Here, in the Kickstarter forum, in any forum if you will. Douchebags telling us to shut the fuck up since they are fine.

Let me rephrase your idea of 'gaming community' in a way that it should clearly give away the value of your comment:

"As long as I have food and water, I really don't give a toss about people who do not have food and water"

Or

"As long as I enjoy my car, I don't give a toss about workers' right"

Or... no actually let me stop here. This kind of nonsense, bravado talk can only fly when you are an anonymous douchebag... Try that in front of people who are looking at you in the eye. And for the more 'academic' among us, you should know that perception of inequality is one of the most disturbing feelings in humans... revolutions have been started in its name.... go ahead, search for it on fucking wikipedia if you are so inclined to learn something, once in a while, instead of just browsing entries for you 'fav' game.

 

[Brayko]

ITT people are very upset because they can't purchase hypothetical DLC.

You are beyond retarded has anyone told you? Actually I don't care.

 

[Roguey]

You are beyond retarded has anyone told you? Actually I don't care.

Explain how I'm wrong. Because the only difference between the DRM-free SR and the Steam DR is the ability to buy DLC that hasn't been made yet.

 

[Brzęczyszczykiewicz]

I wish they made it first person, realtime bioware romance simulator with checkpoints after all it still would be a RPG and that people pledged for something different? Well too bad.

 

[almondblight]

ITT people are very upset because they can't purchase hypothetical DLC.

People are pissed off that even though the DLCs are hypothetical the one and only thing HBS is sure of is that they'll have DRM. And the fact that for a game that emphasizes community involvement, there won't be any DRM-free version for friends of yours that dislike DRM. Especially since HBS was talking up DRM-free during the Kickstarter.

 

[CappenVarra]

Many people who back a project because it promises "DRM free" do it because they're against the very concept of DRM, not just because they don't want to deal with DRM themselves. Keeping the fact that the game will have DRM when it is sold to non backers secret during the kickstarter campaign is dishonest.

i.e. beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master?

(you're really missing out by not larping your avatar more )

 

[Roguey]

ITT people are very upset because they can't purchase hypothetical DLC.

People are pissed off that even though the DLCs are hypothetical the one and only thing HBS is sure of is that they'll have DRM. And the fact that for a game that emphasizes community involvement, there won't be any DRM-free version for friends of yours that dislike DRM. Especially since HBS was talking up DRM-free during the Kickstarter.

How will the game be distributed when it's released to the public? What about DRM-free?

For mobile tablets, Shadowrun Returns will be available via iTunes, Android Marketplace, and the Amazon Android marketplace. For PC/Mac/Linux, the game will be available DRM-free from our website. We are also looking into a Steam release (and potentially Humble Bundle as well).

That's all true. It's available DRM-free from their website to backers.

 

[Wizfall]

Fuck if I will ever understand this. Here, in the Kickstarter forum, in any forum if you will. Douchebags telling us to shut the fuck up since they are fine.

Let me rephrase your idea of 'gaming community' in a way that it should clearly give away the value of your comment:

"As long as I have food and water, I really don't give a toss about people who do not have food and water"

Or

"As long as I enjoy my car, I don't give a toss about workers' right"

Or... no actually let me stop here. This kind of nonsense, bravado talk can only fly when you are an anonymous douchebag... Try that in front of people who are looking at you in the eye. And for the more 'academic' among us, you should know that perception of inequality is one of the most disturbing feelings in humans... revolutions have been started in its name.... go ahead, search for it on fucking wikipedia if you are so inclined to learn something, once in a while, instead of just browsing entries for you 'fav' game.

Maybe the Douchebags tell you to shut up not because they will have what they want but because they will have what have been promised ?
So screaming that you have been cheated is maybe...wrong ?
Scream as much as you want though but better to do it about the right reasons : their future DLC policy and the fact they have been sneaky

 

[felipepepe]

Considering they ran out of money to implement saving and looting, but the games made on the editor CAN have looting, I'd say that everyone ios really hyped for the fan-made content.

But while you can have them withouth steam, the moment the DLCs/Expansion happens and people start to use them, people that have no-DRM versions woun't be able to play any new map. And that's major reason for all this butthurt.

 

[evdk]

Considering they ran out of money to implement saving and looting, but the games made on the editor CAN have looting, I'd say that everyone ios really hyped for the fan-made content.

That's an... unfortunate spelling error.

But while you can have them withouth steam, the moment the DLCs/Expansion happens and people start to use them, people that have no-DRM versions woun't be able to play any new map. And that's major reason for all this butthurt.

And a pretty valid one too. I didn't want to get this on Steam and now I will eventually have to.

 

[FeelTheRads]

The complete game in every way (with all the intended functions) + an extra expansion that will be offered to everyone who participated in the kickstarter = "chewed up bone"/"crippled".

Yes, for those who insist on not using Steam, their DRM-free version WILL be crippled.

Anyway, the most I'm pissed off is about people posting retarded shit like this:

As long as I enjoy the actual game, I really don't give a toss about saves and DRM and all of this extraneous drama.

Hey, I don't give a shit about what's being talked here, let me butt in and tell you what a level headed person I am by not giving a shit about it if I enjoy the game, I'm sure this will end all discussion forever and to the end of time because no one has ever uttered this before. SEE THE LIGHT!!!

Not that the discussion was actually about the game's quality. Even though things like checkpoints will affect the quality of the game. Of course... we already heard "looting? pff, as long as the game is good it's fine". Soon it will be "What the game is shit? As long as it's good it's fine, though".

 

[Avantre]

The complete game in every way (with all the intended functions) + an extra expansion that will be offered to everyone who participated in the kickstarter = "chewed up bone"/"crippled".

Yes, for those who insist on not using Steam, their DRM-free version WILL be crippled.

Anyway, the most I'm pissed off is about people posting retarded shit like this:

As long as I enjoy the actual game, I really don't give a toss about saves and DRM and all of this extraneous drama.

Hey, I don't give a shit about what's being talked here, let me butt in and tell you what a level headed person I am by not giving a shit about it if I enjoy the game, I'm sure this will end all discussion forever and to the end of time because no one has ever uttered this before. SEE THE LIGHT!!!

Not that the discussion was actually about the game's quality. Even though things like checkpoints will affect the quality of the game. Of course... we already heard "looting? pff, as long as the game is good it's fine". Soon it will be "What the game is shit? As long as it's good it's fine, though".

Yes, I worded it badly. What I was trying to say is that we don't know how these changes will affect the end game. Checkpoint saves can suck, but it depends on how they're implemented. Loot drops sound bad but fan-created content will probably cover that. The big one is the DLC, but we don't know what they're going to sell beyond Berlin - it could all be Horse Armor level of bad and not worth getting. I'm saying I'm concerned with how it affects the actual game rather than the one we're all making up in our heads.

 

[mbpopolano24]

Fuck if I will ever understand this. Here, in the Kickstarter forum, in any forum if you will. Douchebags telling us to shut the fuck up since they are fine.

Let me rephrase your idea of 'gaming community' in a way that it should clearly give away the value of your comment:

"As long as I have food and water, I really don't give a toss about people who do not have food and water"

Or

"As long as I enjoy my car, I don't give a toss about workers' right"

Or... no actually let me stop here. This kind of nonsense, bravado talk can only fly when you are an anonymous douchebag... Try that in front of people who are looking at you in the eye. And for the more 'academic' among us, you should know that perception of inequality is one of the most disturbing feelings in humans... revolutions have been started in its name.... go ahead, search for it on fucking wikipedia if you are so inclined to learn something, once in a while, instead of just browsing entries for you 'fav' game.

Maybe the Douchebags tell you to shut up not because they will have what they want but because they will have what have been promised ?
So screaming that you have been cheated is maybe...wrong ?
Scream as much as you want though but better to do it about the right reasons : their future DLC policy and the fact they have been sneaky

First, you cannot read. You can twist reality as much as you want, but they promised a public, DRM-free game. This does not surprise me. If entire countries (like North Korea) can be turned and twist by a Dear Leader, a few douchebags is not a problem.

Second, 'screaming' as you say, 'civil protesting', as I call it, did actually already have the intended effects. HBS did offer to refund contributions to 'retarded' people like me who do not care for the game, but do care for the principle. Personally, I declined the offer and just asked them to remove me from their database. I appreciated the offer very much, and that made me think they are probably over their heads, instead of being 'evil scammers'. Therefore, my friend, even they recognize that the situation is murky at best. See, some of us care for the well-being of the community (yes, even of douchebags), so that in the future, maybe, just maybe, developers will use Kickstarter in a more responsible way, thus allowing people who care for a game to pledge for that game, and people who care for an ideal to pledge for that ideal. It's not that complicated. It's easier to implement than a 'checkpoint' save....

 

[Capitalism]

It's not that complicated. It's easier to implement than a 'checkpoint' save....

Fucking lazy mobile developers. "Loot is haaard!.." "Saves are haaard!.." "Patching is haaard!.."

 

[almondblight]

That's all true. It's available DRM-free from their website to backers.

Well, yes, which is why:

And the fact that for a game that emphasizes community involvement, there won't be any DRM-free version for friends of yours that dislike DRM.

If you backed it believing that your friends would be able to get a DRM-free version later, you're out of luck. And I wouldn't fault anyone for believe that, since that's what HBS said:

How will the game be distributed when it's released to the public? What about DRM-free?
For mobile tablets, Shadowrun Returns will be available via iTunes, Android Marketplace, and the Amazon Android marketplace. For PC/Mac/Linux, the game will be available DRM-free from our website. We are also looking into a Steam release (and potentially Humble Bundle as well).

Not true. It doesn't help that their initial explanation for the DRM turned out to be a lie:

After a lot of prototyping and research, we decided that our best delivery option for OSX/Windows/Linux is to go the route that great games (like Skyrim!) have taken and embrace Steam and the Steam Workshop. Steam allows us to provide up-to-date downloads and patching along with a vibrant ecosystem for developing community-created content and file sharing.
...
We realize that for some of you, releasing on Steam isn’t your first choice but there are a lot of really great things we get from this decision that allow us to focus on the game rather than on making things like backend servers to deploy and manage shared content. From the start, we’ve had to make practical decisions like this one to ensure we get the most out of the support you’ve given us. We consider this to be the best option for everyone.

And the fact that they were connecting DRM with content sharing in the initial campaign suggests that they may have been planning this from the beginning:

While the details are still being worked out, we hate draconian DRM as much as the next guy. We expect there will be an account system but it would be primarily used to enable the social elements of the game like mission and character sharing--not to restrict access to the game itself.

 

[Stelcio]

How will the game be distributed when it's released to the public? What about DRM-free?

For mobile tablets, Shadowrun Returns will be available via iTunes, Android Marketplace, and the Amazon Android marketplace. For PC/Mac/Linux, the game will be available DRM-free from our website. We are also looking into a Steam release (and potentially Humble Bundle as well).

That's all true. It's available DRM-free from their website to backers.

Actually this question regards the ways of public distribution. So they actually promised to sell the game DRM-free through their website.

 

[tuluse]

I don't know what to think about this DLC stuff, myself.

If it's reasonably-sized "modules", side-adventures and the likes, you know, like you have adventure books in pnp games, then why not? As long as it's well done and brings enough content to the table that's actually new, I'm actually all for it, and if it's competently made and I liked the core game, I'll buy it. DLC on its own isn't evil, it's what people typically do with it that is.

On the other hand, if it's stuff like Cyborg Pony Armor and various assorted lazy shit like that, then fuck those people and I'll never support them in any way ever again, because they took something that had a chance to be great and just wiped their ass with it. Sure, it's still great, but now there's shit smeared all over it.

They've said there will be both kinds. New avatars, new missions, possible other stuff like tilesets.

 

[DeepOcean]

I really don't understand the decision for a checkpoint system. How placing checkpoints through the levels is less work than allow the player to save when he want? About the looting, you can't loot bodies but do you get loot after the battle or mission is over?

 

[Jaesun]

There is no loot because this isn't a treasure puking simulator (to use their own words). NPC's can still have key items like say a Key Card which you can loot from them. You just won't be getting your gear/loot from NPC corpses.

And the Check point system it at 15 minute intervals.

 

[evdk]

I still maintain that they could've implemented a looting system akin to the salvage from MW3, but whatever, just let me buy some cool weapons.

 

[Ulminati]

In-setting it makes very little sense for a Shadowrunner to loot weapons, ammo etc. from their enemies. 2050 forensic science allows Lone Star/a megacorp to track the guns or even radioactive isotopes in the bullets back to whichever grunt they were issued to. If you use them on another run afterwards, you generate another paper trail that can be linked to you which will eventually come and bite you in the ass. Runners primarily get their gear through fixers, who can get stuff that exists without paperwork, licenses, serial numbers, registration and so forth. It's both a recommended practice for GMs (at least in the SR2, SR3 and SR4 core books) to only let players get gear from fixers and a frequent plot hook to tempt players to steal an extremely expensive bit of gear only to have it bite them in the ass later on. It's also a way to allow the GM to outfit enemies with equipment similar to the players without worrying about a geometric growth in the amount of valuables the players score every run. Ask any veteran shadowrun player what happens once a group starts harvesting cyberware from the cooling bodies of their adversaries and you'll be treated to a number of horrific player deaths shortly thereafter.

The primary loot players collect during a run in pen&paper comes in the form of data stolen from computers, certified credsticks, telesma (in monty haul campaigns) and the fee from their Johnson.

Is lootless a streamlining over "traditional" CRPGS? Unquestionably. But it is keeping in the conventions set forth by the setting.