KickStarter King Arthur: Knight's Tale + Legion IX standalone expansion - dark fantasy turn-based tactical RPG from NeocoreGames

[Whisper]

game nears impossible difficulty if you don't use vanguards and very easy if you rely on them

they might have patched this since I played so YMMV

Champions are more powerful (at least as powerful) as Vanguards in late game. For a long time I rated Vanguards higher because they were so easy to break, but when I started experimenting with Champions with the right relics... yeah, they're insane. They can clear entire fights in a single turn with their AP recovery mechanics, which outshine Vanguard.

But both are the problem. And they don't need a damage nerf - they need AP recovery nerfs.

Champion uses 4 AP attacks.

Vanguard uses 3 AP attacks. Also Vanguard recovers 1 AP on kill and 1 AP with kill with Strike (= +2 AP), add essence that gives +1 AP on kill and item that gives +2 MP on kill and you can just keep one-shotting all enemies in 1 turn.

 

[Harthwain]

It's a great game with a lot of charm. Can't really find many faults. Difficulty curve is a bit strange tho... I was playing on very hard/roguelite and for the first 3 or 4 missions I was getting stomped. All my knights were injured and barely alive and I was often considering a restart. Then mission 5 or 6 started and it was piss easy. And then the rest of the game was just a variation from normal to easy. And from what I have read on Steam, the only missions that were somewhat challenging in the later parts of the game, are already scheduled for rework, because of the "many complaints". Real shame. FromSoft will always have my respect for withstanding the current snowflake culture.

Many side missions (and recruitment missions in particular) are way more difficult than the campaign missions for some reason. You really have to bring your A game (including builds) to do well there.

Champions are more powerful (at least as powerful) as Vanguards in late game. For a long time I rated Vanguards higher because they were so easy to break, but when I started experimenting with Champions with the right relics... yeah, they're insane. They can clear entire fights in a single turn with their AP recovery mechanics, which outshine Vanguard.

Champions are great even early-/mid-game and stay relevant to the very end. It was my Champions who carried my entire game. And you don't need much to make Champions work - a proper build and a single item (one that increases damage per kill) will suffice. You should be able to get that working early in Act 2 or at the end of Act 1.

Champion uses 4 AP attacks.

Champions can recover 1 AP per kill with Bloodlust and they get Cleave and Killing Spree. With items - as Grunker said - they can clean the map as well as Vanguards.

 

[Grunker]

game nears impossible difficulty if you don't use vanguards and very easy if you rely on them

they might have patched this since I played so YMMV

Champions are more powerful (at least as powerful) as Vanguards in late game. For a long time I rated Vanguards higher because they were so easy to break, but when I started experimenting with Champions with the right relics... yeah, they're insane. They can clear entire fights in a single turn with their AP recovery mechanics, which outshine Vanguard.

But both are the problem. And they don't need a damage nerf - they need AP recovery nerfs.

Champion uses 4 AP attacks.

Vanguard uses 3 AP attacks. Also Vanguard recovers 1 AP on kill and 1 AP with kill with Strike (= +2 AP), add essence that gives +1 AP on kill and item that gives +2 MP on kill and you can just keep one-shotting all enemies in 1 turn.

I don’t know what logic you’re trying to work here, but it’s deeply flawed. Not only do Vanguards get less AP recovery, they also have no AoE for those colossal AP turns where you just kill everything on screen.

It kind of doesn’t matter as everyone seems to agree that both of these classes are a problem, but if you don’t believe me, check out the Knight’s Tale spergs on YouTube and their Champion builds. It’s p. dumb

 

[Whisper]

game nears impossible difficulty if you don't use vanguards and very easy if you rely on them

they might have patched this since I played so YMMV

Champions are more powerful (at least as powerful) as Vanguards in late game. For a long time I rated Vanguards higher because they were so easy to break, but when I started experimenting with Champions with the right relics... yeah, they're insane. They can clear entire fights in a single turn with their AP recovery mechanics, which outshine Vanguard.

But both are the problem. And they don't need a damage nerf - they need AP recovery nerfs.

Champion uses 4 AP attacks.

Vanguard uses 3 AP attacks. Also Vanguard recovers 1 AP on kill and 1 AP with kill with Strike (= +2 AP), add essence that gives +1 AP on kill and item that gives +2 MP on kill and you can just keep one-shotting all enemies in 1 turn.

I don’t know what logic you’re trying to work here, but it’s deeply flawed. Not only do Vanguards get less AP recovery, they also have no AoE for those colossal AP turns where you just kill everything on screen.

It kind of doesn’t matter as everyone seems to agree that both of these classes are a problem, but if you don’t believe me, check out the Knight’s Tale spergs on YouTube and their Champion builds. It’s p. dumb

Vanguard gets 3 AP recovery per kill. 1 from strike, 1 from assasination, 1 from essense.

Vanguard double attack (champion strike 1 time, vanguard strike 2 times) costs 3 AP.
Less AP recovery?

 

[fantadomat]

Really good game,would recommend it for sure.

 

[Grunker]

game nears impossible difficulty if you don't use vanguards and very easy if you rely on them

they might have patched this since I played so YMMV

Champions are more powerful (at least as powerful) as Vanguards in late game. For a long time I rated Vanguards higher because they were so easy to break, but when I started experimenting with Champions with the right relics... yeah, they're insane. They can clear entire fights in a single turn with their AP recovery mechanics, which outshine Vanguard.

But both are the problem. And they don't need a damage nerf - they need AP recovery nerfs.

Champion uses 4 AP attacks.

Vanguard uses 3 AP attacks. Also Vanguard recovers 1 AP on kill and 1 AP with kill with Strike (= +2 AP), add essence that gives +1 AP on kill and item that gives +2 MP on kill and you can just keep one-shotting all enemies in 1 turn.

I don’t know what logic you’re trying to work here, but it’s deeply flawed. Not only do Vanguards get less AP recovery, they also have no AoE for those colossal AP turns where you just kill everything on screen.

It kind of doesn’t matter as everyone seems to agree that both of these classes are a problem, but if you don’t believe me, check out the Knight’s Tale spergs on YouTube and their Champion builds. It’s p. dumb

Vanguard gets 3 AP recovery per kill. 1 from strike, 1 from assasination, 1 from essense.

Vanguard double attack (champion strike 1 time, vanguard strike 2 times) costs 3 AP.
Less AP recovery?

I don't think you understand how Rage works in practice with AoE-attacks and the free attacks Champions get from killing. You're talking about just AP per kill - I'm talking about the effective AP recovery gained from actual interactions. Maxxalos has some pretty good demonstrations:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdHTILTATGY&t=49s

And this is without even crazier relic setups.

 

[notpl]

It sounds like 2-3 specific items need to be nerfed (or just removed) rather than two of the game's six classes being the problem.

 

[Grunker]

It sounds like 2-3 specific items need to be nerfed (or just removed) rather than two of the game's six classes being the problem.

Nope, just the AP recovery:

But both are the problem. And they don't need a damage nerf - they need AP recovery nerfs.

Both classes will trivialize content even without the OP relics and without looking up guides - but it is the insane AP recovery rather than the damage that causes problems.

It’s like that thing Roguey was talking about

 

[rusty_shackleford]

don't champions rely on relics that let them teleport around the map?

I'd like to see how your champions are faring on the highest difficulty towards the end, most of my characters other than Mordred would trivially die without being constantly babysat. Champions were a liability because no stealth.

 

[Grunker]

don't champions rely on relics that let them teleport around the map?

I'd like to see how your champions are faring on the highest difficulty towards the end, most of my characters other than Mordred would trivially die without being constantly babysat. Champions were a liability because no stealth.

No, not at all. Champions only get stronger as the game goes on. Check the video I linked.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

don't champions rely on relics that let them teleport around the map?

I'd like to see how your champions are faring on the highest difficulty towards the end, most of my characters other than Mordred would trivially die without being constantly babysat. Champions were a liability because no stealth.

No, not at all. Champions only get stronger as the game goes on. Check the video I linked.

that's post-game tho

 

[BrotherFrank]

Picked it up, didn’t have much expectations going in as liked neocore for the total warish games and haven’t really kept up with them in recent years.
But enjoying things so far, fantasy medieval melee xcom works better then i thought it would.

Also one of the pros of being a chad sir kay enjoyer: if he is in the game, he is always going to be one of the first knights you recruit, sucks if you are a lancelot or gawain fan/girl and you have to actually work to unlock your favorite character.

 

[The_Mask]

Yeah, I've gone for Righteous + Old Faith, and so far Sir Kay is the backbone that holds my ragged teams together. Pretty cool game, so far.

 

[BrotherFrank]

Righteous+Christian here but tbh I'm feeling bad about it, old faith has always been interesting in this series.

As an aside, I noticed it's impossible to get both Morgan le Fey and Lancelot in the same run, shame, it would have been interesting to get the old protags of ka2 together again.

 

[notpl]

Righteous+Christian here but tbh I'm feeling bad about it, old faith has always been interesting in this series.

As an aside, I noticed it's impossible to get both Morgan le Fey and Lancelot in the same run, shame, it would have been interesting to get the old protags of ka2 together again.

Why is it impossible? Morgana is old faith, lancelot is righteous.

 

[BrotherFrank]

…I’m a dumbass, impossible for me because i’m righteous/christian.

Allright guess that makes old faith/righteous the true way to play this.

 

[notpl]

Icicle Girlboss squad with morgana, guinevere, and morgaus is both insanely strong and very fun to play. They all get stronger the more chill/freezing they inflict across the map.

 

[Grunker]

don't champions rely on relics that let them teleport around the map?

I'd like to see how your champions are faring on the highest difficulty towards the end, most of my characters other than Mordred would trivially die without being constantly babysat. Champions were a liability because no stealth.

No, not at all. Champions only get stronger as the game goes on. Check the video I linked.

that's post-game tho

champs start doing it as early as late act 2

 

[The_Mask]

This game is amazing for the only fact that there is no other way of getting Relic Dust than being a Christian Tyrant. I hope they patch that problem somehow.

 

[notpl]

This game is amazing for the only fact that there is no other way of getting Relic Dust than being a Christian Tyrant. I hope they patch that problem somehow.

You get Sir Ector so early that you can max his loyalty even as a greenpeace old faith hippie. And even if he hates you, his loyalty doesn't affect his ability to generate relic dust.

 

[The_Mask]

This game is amazing for the only fact that there is no other way of getting Relic Dust than being a Christian Tyrant. I hope they patch that problem somehow.

You get Sir Ector so early that you can max his loyalty even as a greenpeace old faith hippie. And even if he hates you, his loyalty doesn't affect his ability to generate relic dust.

Mmmmm... I kicked him out because of roleplay. But you're right, I guess.

 

[Harthwain]

This game is amazing for the only fact that there is no other way of getting Relic Dust than being a Christian Tyrant. I hope they patch that problem somehow.

You get Sir Ector so early that you can max his loyalty even as a greenpeace old faith hippie. And even if he hates you, his loyalty doesn't affect his ability to generate relic dust.

You also get dust by sacrificing other relics. It's really not that hard to get dust, even if you forgo Ector.

 

[Chippy]

I need to upgrade my PC for this, but it's a definate buy for me. I probably need to get in there before the balancers on the Codex convince Neocore of anything as well.

 

[BrotherFrank]

So question to the wise, does it matter to the story which characters you keep on the round table?

I ask because i kicked out Merlin (his trait made him incompatible with my christian run) and was about to do the same with Guinevere, until I needed her to recruit Percivale (a christian knight and bro to the archer waifu so an auto include on my round table). Thus starting to wonder if losing Merlin wasn't dumb and if i might have cut myself off from either missions or story content and also now feel forced to keep guinevere around just in case she is needed again.

12 spots for your round table is tight (which would be ok if heroes you kicked out went back into recruitment pool or if there was more then 4 court slots for aspiring heroes), is making for some real heart breaks when it comes to roster management.

 

[Harthwain]

So question to the wise, does it matter to the story which characters you keep on the round table?

No.