Development Info Knights of the Chalice 2 Development Update

[tuluse]

Unless of course being on GoG gets him much more exposure. But that remains to be proven. It entirely depends on whether GoG, or others like RPS, Codex, Kotaku (...), communicate on the fact that GoG is listing KOTC. It looks like a gamble to me unless marketing is agreed upon during discussions.

KOTC may be an old game not getting anymore coverage but if KOTC2 gets some it will benefit both games so unless Pierre gets the assurance that GoG will actively help him sell, as opposed to just quietly listing him, slashing the price to get on GoG might turn out to be a very bad idea.

Then just do this.

1) Release on own website first, wait for sales to die down
2) Release on public portals where people actually buy things

 

[mondblut]

Why would he sell it on sites like GOG when he will always cater to a very small niche who will buy his RPGs no matter what, and he can make more money by selling the game himself and charging more? It's like Matrix games. He's doing it right.

So thought Illwinter. Then they tried Desura for lulz, and since then are probably banging their heads against a wall over all those years they have wasted before.

 

[Grunker]

Unless of course being on GoG gets him much more exposure. But that remains to be proven. It entirely depends on whether GoG, or others like RPS, Codex, Kotaku (...), communicate on the fact that GoG is listing KOTC. It looks like a gamble to me unless marketing is agreed upon during discussions.

KOTC may be an old game not getting anymore coverage but if KOTC2 gets some it will benefit both games so unless Pierre gets the assurance that GoG will actively help him sell, as opposed to just quietly listing him, slashing the price to get on GoG might turn out to be a very bad idea.

Then just do this.

1) Release on own website first, wait for sales to die down
2) Release on public portals where people actually buy things

Most public portals will not accept this, for obvious reasons. At least Steam has shown to be particularly unwilling. That said I simply don't believe there are good arguments in favour of not releasing indie RPGs on GoG.

 

[Charles-cgr]

Why would he sell it on sites like GOG when he will always cater to a very small niche who will buy his RPGs no matter what, and he can make more money by selling the game himself and charging more? It's like Matrix games. He's doing it right.

Unless of course being on GoG gets him much more exposure. But that remains to be proven. It entirely depends on whether GoG, or others like RPS, Codex, Kotaku (...), communicate on the fact that GoG is listing KOTC. It looks like a gamble to me unless marketing is agreed upon during discussions.

KOTC may be an old game not getting anymore coverage but if KOTC2 gets some it will benefit both games so unless Pierre gets the assurance that GoG will actively help him sell, as opposed to just quietly listing him, slashing the price to get on GoG might turn out to be a very bad idea.

Hi Charles,

I am not sure what you'd consider to be good coverage but here's what we do for every game we get on the service in order to help it sell as best possible:

We give it a huge graphic spot on the front page that is in rotation for a certain amount of time.

We announce it on Facebook, Twitter, and I think on G+ (I don't know much about the last one as I don't even use that service).

If a game has a trailer, we put it up on our Youtube channel.

And then there's me spamming the Codex

That's interesting, thanks for replying. I honestly didn't know all games released on GoG got that same treatment.

Then there's press coverage. I'd say the GoG or Steam stamp of approval is probably a great way to stand out and be noticed by press, but press is necessary to do well on greenlight and perhaps GoG as well (just supposing).

In the end there's probably no absolute better way to go. Some stories in favor of one, others in favor of the other.

Given there's actually a choice of course. If GoG doesn't want KOTC then there's no reason to worry about it.

 

[ghostdog]

Even if I dislike GOG's abandonware-dosbox market, I'm all for it selling indie oldschool games, and I've bought several from it.

I really don't see why an indie developer wouldn't go the GOG (or even steam) way, especially if he is planning to build a series of games. I'm pretty certain that it's highly unlikely for him to make more money selling it himself because even if the digital platform gets a cut, he is going to reach a much wider audience and even if the money difference isn't that huge, already having a bigger audience from your first game will make a huge difference when building up a series.

Mostly I think it's the mentality of the developer who probably feels cheated when he gives a big cut to some distributor, and doesn't get full price for a game he busted his ass for years. Understandable, but at the end of the day, wrong.

 

[Dorateen]

I've been looking forward to this sequel for a while. The only thing that concerns me is the direction he might go with the FWE editor. As much fun as the modding hobby can be, I have been waiting for a full stand-alone title. I sure hope Knights of the Chalice 2 is not treated as a demo for what can be done with the editor.

I'm not saying that will be the case, but the potential for a weak "offical campaign" is there, given the history of such modding tools bundled together with a game.

 

[Excidium]

I've been looking forward to this sequel for a while. The only thing that concerns me is the direction he might go with the FWE editor. As much fun as the modding hobby can be, I have been waiting for a full stand-alone title. I sure hope Knights of the Chalice 2 is not treated as a demo for what can be done with the editor.

I'm not saying that will be the case, but the potential for a weak "offical campaign" is there, given the history of such modding tools bundled together with a game.

I'd be fine with that. I never played the full game but isn't it just like the demo, a bunch of disconnected encounters thrown together with no care for consistence?

 

[Grunker]

I'm also eagerly awaiting the promised ToEE-level graphics. Not so much because that's particularly important, but because I'm anxious to see if that will hurt the scope of the game. I'd much rather have a KotC-level long game with the old graphics than a pretty ToEE style short game.

 

[Grunker]

I never played the full game but isn't it just like the demo, a bunch of disconnected encounters thrown together with no care for consistence?

It's a series of well thought-out encounters that provide you with basic fantasy BSB context. It's certainly not a sandbox or a non-linear game, but I don't know why you wouldn't call it a full game.

 

[Delterius]

I'm also eagerly awaiting the promised ToEE-level graphics. Not so much because that's particularly important, but because I'm anxious to see if that will hurt the scope of the game. I'd much rather have a KotC-level long game with the old graphics than a pretty ToEE style short game.

Then again, I'm always intrigued by a ToEE that isn't horrifying.

 

[Dorateen]

I've been looking forward to this sequel for a while. The only thing that concerns me is the direction he might go with the FWE editor. As much fun as the modding hobby can be, I have been waiting for a full stand-alone title. I sure hope Knights of the Chalice 2 is not treated as a demo for what can be done with the editor.

I'm not saying that will be the case, but the potential for a weak "offical campaign" is there, given the history of such modding tools bundled together with a game.

I'd be fine with that. I never played the full game but isn't it just like the demo, a bunch of disconnected encounters thrown together with no care for consistence?

The design of the adventure is very modular, in the way the nature of enemies/villains are introduced. It has a progression to it, which follows a storyline from start to finish.

Unless you didn't care for the encounter design, because there is a lot of combat, you should definitely find time to play the whole game.

 

[Lhynn]

I'm also eagerly awaiting the promised ToEE-level graphics. Not so much because that's particularly important, but because I'm anxious to see if that will hurt the scope of the game. I'd much rather have a KotC-level long game with the old graphics than a pretty ToEE style short game.

Then again, I'm always intrigued by a ToEE that isn't horrifying.

horryfing in what sense?

 

[Delterius]

Encounter design, of course.

 

[Excidium]

I never played the full game but isn't it just like the demo, a bunch of disconnected encounters thrown together with no care for consistence?

It's a series of well thought-out encounters that provide you with basic fantasy BSB context. It's certainly not a sandbox or a non-linear game, but I don't know why you wouldn't call it a full game.

I mean full game as in the actual game not the demo.

The design of the adventure is very modular, in the way the nature of enemies/villains are introduced. It has a progression to it, which follows a storyline from start to finish.

Unless you didn't care for the encounter design, because there is a lot of combat, you should definitely find time to play the whole game.

Yeah, it's definitely above average in that regard.

I'm also eagerly awaiting the promised ToEE-level graphics. Not so much because that's particularly important, but because I'm anxious to see if that will hurt the scope of the game. I'd much rather have a KotC-level long game with the old graphics than a pretty ToEE style short game.

Then again, I'm always intrigued by a ToEE that isn't horrifying.

horryfing in what sense?

Probably in the countryside life simulation / goblinoid genocide sense

 

[Delterius]

Excidium Yes, the drunk guy in Hommlet was the worst.

 

[Mastermind]

You blame crafting, I blame the fact that there wasn't awesome stuff to be found in dungeons. It's easy to have a proper crafting system and still place unique artifacts, which cannot be replicated by crafting, into the dungeons imo.

I'd like to see the ability to create unique artifacts yourself. After all, the artifacts in the game world were made by someone (or something) at some point too. Maybe have some quests designed around retrieving extremely rare ingredients that can only be used to make one item

 

[Leimreу]

I hope they will make it harder than the first part. Also, crafting shouldn't be so overpowered as in KotC1.

 

[JarlFrank]

You blame crafting, I blame the fact that there wasn't awesome stuff to be found in dungeons. It's easy to have a proper crafting system and still place unique artifacts, which cannot be replicated by crafting, into the dungeons imo.

I'd like to see the ability to create unique artifacts yourself. After all, the artifacts in the game world were made by someone (or something) at some point too. Maybe have some quests designed around retrieving extremely rare ingredients that can only be used to make one item

But adventurers who specialize in combat and magic shouldn't be expert smiths.

 

[Excidium]

Magic items have already been cheapened horribly, might as well go and ruin artifacts too.

 

[Lhynn]

You blame crafting, I blame the fact that there wasn't awesome stuff to be found in dungeons. It's easy to have a proper crafting system and still place unique artifacts, which cannot be replicated by crafting, into the dungeons imo.

I'd like to see the ability to create unique artifacts yourself. After all, the artifacts in the game world were made by someone (or something) at some point too. Maybe have some quests designed around retrieving extremely rare ingredients that can only be used to make one item

But adventurers who specialize in combat and magic shouldn't be expert smiths.

Adventurer crafting shit is a fucked up concept if you ask me.

We adventurers dont make shit, we break shit, we DONT do actual work goddammit!!!

Im all for OP gamebreakeing stuff, the more agravating the stats of the item the better. i want it to be hard to find, obscure knowledge hidden somewhere deep in a kobolds ass and the item itself guarded by a horde of hungry tarrasques. Oh and i want it to be random.

 

[Grunker]

You blame crafting, I blame the fact that there wasn't awesome stuff to be found in dungeons. It's easy to have a proper crafting system and still place unique artifacts, which cannot be replicated by crafting, into the dungeons imo.

I'd like to see the ability to create unique artifacts yourself. After all, the artifacts in the game world were made by someone (or something) at some point too. Maybe have some quests designed around retrieving extremely rare ingredients that can only be used to make one item

But adventurers who specialize in combat and magic shouldn't be expert smiths.

that's one of the worst arguments for arbitrary realism i've seen this month and i've seen a couple

 

[Excidium]

You blame crafting, I blame the fact that there wasn't awesome stuff to be found in dungeons. It's easy to have a proper crafting system and still place unique artifacts, which cannot be replicated by crafting, into the dungeons imo.

I'd like to see the ability to create unique artifacts yourself. After all, the artifacts in the game world were made by someone (or something) at some point too. Maybe have some quests designed around retrieving extremely rare ingredients that can only be used to make one item

But adventurers who specialize in combat and magic shouldn't be expert smiths.

that's one of the worst arguments for arbitrary realism i've seen this month and i've seen a couple

Yeah. A better one would be "Congratulations! You finished forging your 6th Holy Avenger +5! While you were hard at work, the warlock finished his summoning and the demon hordes ravaged the kingdom. Game Over"

 

[Lhynn]

But adventurers who specialize in combat and magic shouldn't be expert smiths.

that's one of the worst arguments for arbitrary realism i've seen this month and i've seen a couple

Well, it steems from the fact that the adventuring life style simply isnt suited for crafters. Making quality armor/weapon is a lenghty process that requires years of training, and adventuring life is usually short and plagued with dangers, moving from one place to the next.
Traveling light and meeting new people along the way, making enemies that will be after you and allies that will need you fast at different places.
Any time you could devote to blacksmithing is trivial compared to someone that works day and night on that, so yeah, its not feasible for an adventurer to be any good with an anvil iif he wasnt working on one before his adventuring life started.
Being an alchemist is the only one i would say its kinda possible and a good option, because the bare minimum requirements to make it work are light in comparison. because being in strange locales you are bound to find rare herbs, also, killing monsters will provide ingredients that are light if you got a small container.

So yeah... my two cents, being actually sorta serious.

 

[Grunker]

You blame crafting, I blame the fact that there wasn't awesome stuff to be found in dungeons. It's easy to have a proper crafting system and still place unique artifacts, which cannot be replicated by crafting, into the dungeons imo.

I'd like to see the ability to create unique artifacts yourself. After all, the artifacts in the game world were made by someone (or something) at some point too. Maybe have some quests designed around retrieving extremely rare ingredients that can only be used to make one item

But adventurers who specialize in combat and magic shouldn't be expert smiths.

that's one of the worst arguments for arbitrary realism i've seen this month and i've seen a couple

Yeah. A better one would be "Congratulations! You finished forging your 6th Holy Avenger +5! While you were hard at work, the warlock finished his summoning and the demon hordes ravaged the kingdom. Game Over"

Crafting in KotC makes treasure uninteresting. That's a stronger argument than "omg adventurers should be smiths".

Well, it steems from the fact that the adventuring life style simply isnt suited to be a crafter.

I don't really give a shit what adventuring life is suited for in my strictly combat focused, tactical RPG. I don't ask for realistic toilet-mechanics either.

 

[Excidium]

You blame crafting, I blame the fact that there wasn't awesome stuff to be found in dungeons. It's easy to have a proper crafting system and still place unique artifacts, which cannot be replicated by crafting, into the dungeons imo.

I'd like to see the ability to create unique artifacts yourself. After all, the artifacts in the game world were made by someone (or something) at some point too. Maybe have some quests designed around retrieving extremely rare ingredients that can only be used to make one item

But adventurers who specialize in combat and magic shouldn't be expert smiths.

that's one of the worst arguments for arbitrary realism i've seen this month and i've seen a couple

Yeah. A better one would be "Congratulations! You finished forging your 6th Holy Avenger +5! While you were hard at work, the warlock finished his summoning and the demon hordes ravaged the kingdom. Game Over"

Crafting in KotC makes treasure uninteresting. That's a stronger argument than "omg adventurers should be smiths".

Same thing either way, Josh.

Well, it steems from the fact that the adventuring life style simply isnt suited to be a crafter.

I don't really give a shit what RPG design is suited for in my OGL tech demo.

Ok.