Incline Knights of the Chalice 2 - Editor & Module Creation

[Dorateen]

I hope so. But in the changelog of version 1.04 it says this:

• Expanded the full-screen dialogue interface: now it covers the whole screen.

Figured it has something to do with that change.

 

[Dorateen]

Continuing work on Hearkenwold. Here's a few more screenshots:

Trying to put some bats to sleep.

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I've always enjoyed this particular NPC reaction to a character with the Archery skill, who happened to suggest taking out a suspect.

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Falling, unheroically, down a well...

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This is probably a good time to mention that the module is being designed with no gold required for level ups. Simply because the original version of Hearkenwold makes no such requirement, and it would not be appropriate to slap on such a restriction. Although I do like the idea of characters paying to level up, if it is connected to a training mechanic. Unfortunately, the default Augury of Chaos costs are too high, so I would rather keep leveling free than dump tens of thousands of gold into the game to support advancement. This adventure is more grounded in terms of treasure and economy, so it wouldn't make much sense.

 

[Semper]

how do you like the editor compared to iceblink? are there some crucial features you're missing? thank you

 

[Dorateen]

how do you like the editor compared to iceblink?

I like working with both toolsets. IceBlink's strength was its conversation system, which was very much patterned after NWN2. It was a pleasure to build complex dialogues, with its nesting capabilities and ease of copying and linking to nodes. We also had the Storm of Zehir party-chat style of conversations available.

But I love KotC for the depth of its combat system and the amount of options to give to creatures. One of the reasons I am doing this is because I feel like I am making a module that I'm personally excited to play, and looking forward to get to the bigger battles with higher level characters.

There's actually quite a bit of overlap between the two editors.

edit: One small feature I missed, for some reason KotC2 does not let you call a character's gender as a variable. I had a few dialogue options dependent on male or female characters, but that is a minor thing.

 

[Semper]

the thing i miss in iceblink is a custom script language. version one of the engine got the inclusion of c# programming. while i get that this feature got removed due to security concerns, it's kind of restricting to only use precrafted scripts shipping with the toolset. no way to create custom effects, ai routines and other stuff sans diving headlong into recompiling the source.
i know that kotc2 comes with scripting. is it as flexible as writing scripts in nwn? basically i am looking for an engine comparable to nwn minus the whole 3d environment which takes a lot of time and effort to get it right.

 

[Dorateen]

i know that kotc2 comes with scripting. is it as flexible as writing scripts in nwn? basically i am looking for an engine comparable to nwn minus the whole 3d environment which takes a lot of time and effort to get it right.

In KotC2, you create scripts from about 180 precrafted "commands", which have a pretty good degree of flexibility in setting parameters. I think there is capability for some customization, but I have not looked into that. Maybe The Red Knight has more insight into the scripting.

 

[The Red Knight]

I haven't used nwn1/2 editors beyond minor tweaks so I can't compare them. Wall of text describing the editor below. TL;DR, you can do lots of stuff with available commands, and with effort hack your way into some fancy unintended behavior, but you can't mod the D&D or the core gameplay out of it (unless your goal is a visual novel?) and if you prefer unrestrained coding over getting creative with limited tools, then you likely will find stuff to complain about sooner rather than later. Even then, it may still be worth it if you want to create D&D combatfag stuff.

_________________

There are some commands with specific use that I hope Pierre will "unlock" to be usable in more situations where they'd make sense, and the activable zone stuff (that is currently the only way to make minor visual changes to your maps during the game and make dialogues with interactive pictures) could use some love too on the scripting side (specifically, targeting and moving/changing them with scripts; they work fine as clickable triggers). The script commands will likely require a week or so of getting used to them (and to Pierre's way of thinking), especially that some Pierre clearly added as he needed them (there are a few dozen "if X then" and "set X in variable" commands, some with hundreds of value types to select, some with only a few), but a plus is that most of them are fairly descriptive (so you don't have to learn command names/abbreviations or programming syntax) and that almost all changes to files (like adding new sprites to the sprite folder or a new map file) don't require reopening the module/program.

There are some commands for making cutscenes (NPCs walk and talk and do stuff as the player is forced to watch) but I haven't used them. Normally, NPCs are either standing in place or have a fixed walking path (you select the destination waypoints for them, possibly throw in delays inbetween so they stop at waypoints for a while, and may throw in some messages that will pop over their tokens/sprites as background text). You could try adding dice rolls to select one of possible waypoints to make it more random but there's no simple "walk around within a defined area" command for making maps more alive.

As for organizing the scripts, you can add comments to them, add labels to later jump to from another place in the script, and make scripts launch other scripts. Dialogue answers are nice because you can lock them behind meeting requirements (both using the options included in the answer command and by putting them in an if check) without modifying or duplicating the dialogue structure. Currently you need separate scripts for opening containers though (I tried creating a single master script for opening containers depending on party/container trigger placement, but that'll need to wait till Pierre improves the targeting of activable zones with scripts) and as scripts are all stored in a single directory, that may add lots of clutter to it for heavily-scripted or longer modules, so you should prefix their filenames with the name of the map they are on or something. You also definitely need to learn some hotkeys for the editor (e.g. you need to press TAB to deselect all script lines, or CTRL+CLICK to select the clicked line while deselecting others as there are no UI buttons for that). The "if" commands are separate from "end if" and "else" commands (that in other similar editors I've used tend to be treated as a single entity for moving and copy-pasting them), but it makes it easier to replace them (and their depth is color-coded so you won't accidentally forget to close them).

You can achieve a lot with scripting, but there's no modding out the D&D mechanics (you can create new items and spells and never give the player access to old/default ones, but it is within constraints of d&d stats, feats, and combat rules). The in-game wiki doesn't explain some stuff (like stacking of different modifier types for item effects) so it will be harder to use if your only experience with D&D are PC games. And some features are undocumented yet so you either discover how something works on your own, check how it's used in the Augury module, or read up on what other people have discovered with trial and error. You may also hit walls if you try being creative with how you want to achieve something because of the aforementioned certain scripts that seem like what you need but you can't use them in the specific situation you want, but if you're willing to compromise or have more crude/lengthy scripts, it should be possible to find more roundabout ways of getting stuff done.

You'd likely be able to use it to create a sci-fi d&d adventure with guns and psionic/bionic powers and stuff (maybe even with a space map on which you travel in a spaceship), but you'd have to live with fantasy names for races/classes/item types, and there being loads of hardcoded and fantasy-themed feats. An open-world game where you can revisit locations at any time and have them change over time and NPCs comment on your progress shouldn't be a problem - likewise you could make a revisitable hub from which you go on single-visit missions.

You can:
- create custom items (with loads of on-use/on-equip/passive effects you can apply to them) and spells (can also be used to make trap effects, or as a hacky custom weapon - e.g. I wanted to make a throwing weapon so I made a consumable item that casts a custom javelin spell on use).
- make any type of D&D opponent/NPC you want with a square size of from 1x1 to 4x4 tiles.
- easily replace most art assets with custom ones, including UI graphics (though you can't code in different positions of UI elements, so they'll always be anchored/aligned the vanilla way), and add custom ones at least in some areas (item icons, portraits, tokens/sprites, audio files - haven't tested stuff like adding custom map props to the set of editor "artworks" since you can either bake them into the map image or throw into the map files folder if you want to use them in activable zones)
- open script files in a txt file (not really useful for editing them externally by itself, but you can use it to quickly find some use of a command in Pierre's module to find out how he used it, or in case someone hates the stylized editor look, they could possibly write some external script editor)

You can't (so far):
- create new classes, races or feats (they are hardcoded and judging by the amount of editor areas that calls for them it might take a while before Pierre gets convinced to make them moddable). You can make custom NPC races, though (you use one of existing opponent races as a base but then you can modify everything about that NPC and give it a custom race name to display in-game; haven't tested if you can make custom race companions that way yet, felipepepe might know more since he focused on trying to make a monster arena).
- make lots of visual changes to map areas during the game (it involves hiding/showing activable zones with after-the-change graphic assigned to them, but they're cumbersome to script as of now).
- have an overlay layer for stuff to appear above token/sprite graphics (those are always on top, so for example no making of gate arches you can walk under)
- customize animations of sprites (like adding attack animations or increasing the amount of facing directions from 4 to 8) and create custom visual effects (you could replace the image files for them but the animations are hardcoded)
- modify the item tables for starting equipment or giving NPCs random items (i.e. if you want control over that you don't use them and/or try to add randomization to it with a script - which is definitely not worth it in case of accounting for all the starting equipment options)

Scripting AI is mostly defining how friendly/hostile the NPC is and adding some % or binary yes/no chance of some action getting chosen. A few dozen vanilla spells can be chosen for autocasting there but for more specific combat behavior (like making remaining enemies surrender after their leader is dead, or reinforcements arriving, or an opponent transforming or throwing some taunts at the player, or casting a spell after specific thing happens), you script that in the script editor, attach to an NPC present in the encounter, and it will trigger when conditions for it are met. Ambushes can be defined by a script in case there's one to trigger the combat, or sometimes it's triggered depending on the position of the hostile NPC that sees the party (which automatically starts combat). And combat encounters are generally meant to be of kill-or-die variety with no running away (compare to Vogel's games where you can fight without entering the combat mode, run away at will, run past archers you can't reach, etc.). The AI is smart enough to generally pick the most effective or rage-inducing target for the action so you don't have to worry about teaching it how to use a healing spell.

It might be possible to create custom skills for skill checks (out-of-combat skills like picking locks and diplomacy-related ones are tied to specific classes and are a true/false check) by making them variables and giving the player some way to preview and increase them (an inventory item to open up a dialogue window and/or trainer NPCs that will increase those skills for a fee?). Currently it's a pain to target a specific party member that isn't the party leader, though (you can target someone with the highest X in something, or the first person with some condition or race/class, and check if an NPC is present, or if the party can do something, and some other stuff, but player-created characters are treated as a bit of a blob).

There is no in-game map editor like in FRUA/rpg maker/old RTS games. You instead create a map file externally (you can use free D&D assets for that but no one stops you from making a map image in e.g. battle for wesnoth editor - IIRC rpg maker community calls it parallax mapping), load the file into the KotC2 editor and then paint on it passability rules (walkable, wall, low obstacle you can see through, water, etc.). You can also set elevation of tiles (e.g. if your map has a staircase or a cliff or a lava pit) and place walls between tiles instead of making them occupy the whole tile. Pierre miiiiight add some sort of support for isometric maps so they behave more natural, and currently you can already use those (or even a map of a mario or castlevania level if you'd like to have a hacky platformer look), but remember you will be working on a square grid and a flat image (but if you have separate isometric tiles you could transform them in photoshop to make them look like KotC1/Ultima). The hardest thing with making maps is resizing a map file with a visible grid on it if the grid tile isn't 32x32 or 64x64 px (the game wants the latter and doubling the size of the former won't be a problem), as it's a pain trying to keep that grid from eventually slipping a pixel or two to the side in the resized image.

Some editor UI screenshots:

drop down menus

You're mostly going to use the 'other tools' (for doors, triggers, altitudes and activable objects/zones) and 'special' (for all the specific editors). The brush sizes are for placing the passability tiles, and other stuff is mostly placeable artwork that you don't have to use at all if your map files are already furnitured or if you use some custom art assets for interactive objects.

Doors have a few scripts targetting them so you want to use the editor ones but you can add a custom graphic to them by placing an activable zone on top that shows custom locked door graphic and hiding/showing it depending on door status. Activable zones, among other stuff, are a clickable alternative to walk-on-tile triggers.

module info, items, spells

npc editor

Backpack items in the inventory double as shop inventory that can be called in the script for trading (you can increase the trading space by making an unused NPC, putting some more items in their inventory, and asking the player in the dialogue which NPC's inventory they want to open - e.g. "I need weapons" + "I want potions").

script editor

Aaaand some of this stuff may change by the time it's available for purchase, so take it into consideration.

 

[Dorateen]

I heard back from Pierre regarding the big images appearing in all subsequent conversation scripts, which I mentioned on the previous page. He says it is a bug and will be fixed for version 1.06 due out by end of the month.

 

[Dorateen]

Party has progressed to 2nd Level. Opening up new areas, new locations. The first few magic items are starting to appear.

Spoiler

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A good time to use Turn Undead.

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[Dorateen]

Another one of those branching, party-based conversations.

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Right now, I am trying to advance the party to third level, which means going through enough encounters that can be beat with second level characters. To put this in context, while Augury of Chaos would have players reach 20th level, Hearkenwold takes a more measured approach and slower pace. The expectation is to finish around level 10 or so.

 

[Dorateen]

Party is now third level. Things got a little messy in this tavern.

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Here is a fight that had been giving me some trouble. Ten goblin wizards surrounding the party. And then our cleric learned the Silence spell. Take that you sick bastards!

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As I described in the last update for Hearkenwold in the IceBlink engine, the campaign was constructed through a series a stages, or events, that ultimately connect in a non-linear fashion. I should be wrapping up stage two this month, and starting on stage three. However, that part has a lot of content with wilderness areas, a fortress dungeon and full city to explore. I continue to add more maps to the KotC2 version every day, and then it is a matter of filling up the maps with encounters, accordingly.

 

[vlzvl]

As I described in the last update for Hearkenwold in the IceBlink engine, the campaign was constructed through a series a stages, or events, that ultimately connect in a non-linear fashion. I should be wrapping up stage two this month, and starting on stage three. However, that part has a lot of content with wilderness areas, a fortress dungeon and full city to explore. I continue to add more maps to the KotC2 version every day, and then it is a matter of filling up the maps with encounters, accordingly

Nice work Dorateen,
i especially like ambushes & the strategies required to get out of these.
I wondered if there was any way to just parse automatically your existing content into KOTC2 data files, rather recreating them i.e. by some script or whatever.
It seems you have put a lot of content in the IceBlink engine & the pace shows there aren't any difficulties converting.

 

[Dorateen]

Yes, the conversion is going smoothly enough. The ability to copy and paste text is one of the reasons the process is so fast. But even with all the similarities between the two engines, there are still enough little tweaks and adjustments that I prefer doing this by hand rather than an automated system.

Speaking of ambushes and strategies, I just tested a battle with kobold warlocks that came down to our rogue against the last remaining two enemies. Alas, it was close, but he couldn't pull it out.
KOTC combat is so good!

 

[Dorateen]

Just some screenshots, fighting orcs. Not evident from the sprites, but that is going against a diverse enemy party: priest, fighter, thief and tracker (barbarian).

Spoiler

 

[Dorateen]

This part of the Hearkenwold campaign has always been inspired by Dark Sun. The KotC2 editor comes with a music selection called "Desert Blood", and now the area really has that Dark Sun vibe.

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I have set up the first use the game's keyword parser, here allowing the player to answer a Troll's riddle.

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[anvi]

Is this game all done now? Play now or play next year?

 

[Dorateen]

He who smelt it dealt it.

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[anvi]

Is the answer a secret?

 

[Dorateen]

Is the answer a secret?

No, that is not it. The answer to the riddle makes more sense in context of the game.

 

[Dorateen]

I have some new screenshots from work on the Hearkenwold campaign in the KotC2 editor, appropriate for the Halloween season:

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Fighting an assortment of undead:

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This month I was able to complete stage 2 of the adventure, and have started working on stage 3. There is a lot of content in this part, so I will try to finish by the end of November, although it could go to the end of the year. The good news is I have already been uploading the maps for stage 3 into the editor, which makes it quicker to move through the events, conversations and encounters. Party is still third level, I'm going to run through this weekend and see if I can get them up to level four.

 

[anvi]

I can't wait to play KOTC2 omg.

 

[CryptRat]

This was among my favourtite parts of the Hearkenwold campaign by the way, the desolation and the evilness of the place are very well captured.

 

[Dorateen]

the desolation and the evilness of the place are very well captured.

Thanks. The neat thing about KotC is that there is a soundtrack called "Windy Caves", I use it in this area. No music, just the wind blowing. It really enhances the atmosphere of desolation.

 

[vlzvl]

I have some new screenshots from work on the Hearkenwold campaign in the KotC2 editor, appropriate for the Halloween season:

This is some serious quality background & text narration, nice work Dorateen!

 

[Dorateen]

As anticipated, I was able to get characters up to 4th level, playing through the existing content. Here the party approaches the River Astar.

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Naturally, there is a confrontation at the bridge.

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What are the chances a fight breaks out? This is a Knights of the Chalice module. Of course a fight breaks out.

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The above battle is staged with a group of archers and mage on one bridge, and two more fighter types on the bridge with the player characters. At this point of the adventure, I think advancement is about one level behind where it was in IceBlink. I'm hoping when all the content is included into the campaign, there will be plenty of opportunities available to grow stronger and return to challenging encounters. There are in fact two alternative paths to bypass the bridge over the River Astar.