KickStarter Knights of the Chalice 2 Thread - Augury of Chaos

[Rpguy]

Turn undead is bad in two ways: first reason is that it's damage is extremely low, OGL was much better where undead just went poof or got feared. Second reason is that it uses up your most powerful abilities in the game - why the fuck would you want to turn constructs/dragons or whatever is beyond me.

Just take extra turning, and don't use turn undead.

 

[Jasede]

Rpguy, 2 turns because after using the Celerity domain power and the Pandaemonium domain power she is out of uses until rest. Both powers are once/rest. And her spells just aren't useful enough, and to have good caster stats she is weak in melee. Therefore, the Cleric isn't doing anything.
The Bishop can have the same two domains, plus more later, but ALSO gain strong Turn Undead. Is it better than a Fireball? Sort of, it's guaranteed damage, and it's a big improvement over the currently useless Cleric.

I mean, I guess maybe it'd be worth cutting the Cleric or Bishop entirely but I am not comfortable missing out on the domain powers yet.

How the hell does it 'use up your most powerful abilities' when the Domain powers are once PER REST anyway?


Here's the logic in a really simple way, laid out:

Cleric: casts her two domain powers in a big fight, then piddles around with some summons and healing and Holy Word
Bishop: same as the cleric, but has three to six domain powers and can also turn undead on most of the enemy types I met for some guaranteed AoE damage that always hits, a valuable quality - much better than doing nothing

Also the ONE time I used Turn Undead on my Cleric it was really good, in the Tomb, so if I take the Turning domain and start with 20 CHA... Think how easy this makes a lot of the fights. The elementals from the book? Easy. The portcullis+mimics? Easy. Tombs? Easy.

What am I losing? Level 8 and 9 Cleric spells. Hell, none of us have ever seen a level 7 cleric spell other than on a scroll.

 

[Jasede]

Then again if Turn Undead really is that terrible - which I don't yet believe - the Bishop could be a Drake to spam breath weapon instead? But no, they have bad CHA/WIS...

 

[Mortmal]

Turn undead is bad

Full charisma bishop with every turn feats works, you can damage enemy elementals , demons and undead and if it cover your summons they are healed. Still probably not the most optimum thing. The most usefull and versatile character i've had in party yet is clearly the psionist.Then its probably the sorcerer, so a pure wizard probably better. it's tempting the get a heavy mage party but at chapter i seen them die in 2 rounds even with a sR 28 cloack on.
When the bishop can turn in very limited situations the psionist can cast a cone of any energy type he wants and not affect allies to boot.

 

[Rpguy]

Hmm I don't really have the Pandaemonium domain so I didn't know that. Mine uses turn undead. Also this is the description: Turn Undead: Clerics can turn undead a maximum number of times per day equal to 1 + base charisma modifier (minimum 1). Activating a domain power reduces the number of available turn undead uses by one
I guess if your powers do not use it then it's a different story.

Drake goes well with fighter, you need to give him the breath feats before they it's good, and cleric can't afford them.

 

[Rpguy]

sionist can cast a cone of any nergy type he wants and not affect allies to boot.

You can do that with a wizard too, but you need 3 feats and then only 1 spell per feat...

 

[Jasede]

The Domain Powers do cost a use of Turn Undead, but they are still 1 / rest only. (That's why my Cleric has 10 CHA. She doesn't need Charisma since she only uses 2 Turn Undead uses every rest: Celerity and Pandaemonium.)

Mortmal Maybe you can beat the impossible fight if you get a Tornado scroll from the witches? I know Tweed tried most spells already but I don't think he tried level 9 psionic spells. Tornado knocks everyone hit prone and deals 17d6 / 25d6 in a big area. If you can get one off at the start maybe you have a chance?

 

[Rpguy]

The Domain Powers do cost a use of Turn Undead, but they are still 1 / rest only. (That's why my Cleric has 10 CHA. She doesn't need Charisma since she only uses 2 Turn Undead uses every rest: Celerity and Pandaemonium.)

Exactly so for your cleric , using turn undead instead of the two domain powers is completely out of the question.

 

[Jasede]

Right, for the Cleric. But the Cleric is useless other than using the 2 domain powers because she can't keep up in melee and she also doesn't have spells that can win the fights this game throws at you. She'd be better with a third/fourth domain and powerful Turn Undead so she can do SOMETHING. Heck, even just having the Hunting domain and using a good bow with Zen Archery would be an improvement.

 

[Rpguy]

Well my cleric doesn't feel useless, but I built her differently. In any case my point is that your better off taking aberration domain and using your turn undead usage for that. using it on monsters for very low damage doesn't seem worth it.

I think the role of the cleric is to be a healer/buffer, I took curing and life domain, and she can heal twice per round for insane amounts. ( or heal + buff in 1 round )

Not every character need to be a damage dealer.

 

[Jasede]

Healing isn't going to help me at this point, only killing them before they kill me.

I don't think the tentacle thing will scale well. I mean, it might. Let me know how it does in the High Sewers.

 

[Lilliput McHammersmith]

I think it's hilarious that some people are complaining about the difficulty, did I wander into a different forum by accident or did you guys all turn into giant pussies

Normally I’d agree with you, but these fights are actually pretty unfair. Some days it’s fun to try and fight against basically impossible odds, but other days it is not. Today was one of the “not” days for me. I think I’ll wait for a rebalancing patch.

 

[Tweed]

*AHEM*

I won.

 

[AdolfSatan]

iirc, while Pierre talked about fixing the bugs asap he sorta dissed the difficulty complaints with a "yeah, we'll see about that later". Correct me if I'm wrong, but that was my impression. I kinda like the way it is right now, but will wait until most bugs are patched before I get back to it again. In the meanwhile I'll keep thinking about my builds and reading what has worked or not for you guys. Don't really agree with the idea of dissing the Cleric, but I brought popcorn to see how it goes.

 

[Tweed]

That crazy bitch joins you after the battle if you let her, level 10 warlock, she's going to be a real help I think. I have no delusions about surviving the rest of what's coming though. If Pierre wants this game to sell to anyone but autists like us he had better see about re-balancing this at some point or even those people who consider themselves "rpg fans" are going to shred this in the reviews. At this point the game feels more like a tactical puzzle than an RPG, you have to figure out the very specific way to win each fight or you will not move ahead.

EDIT: If you do not have a psionics user, restart your party now, right now, just give up and go do it, you will not win otherwise.

 

[Tweed]

Also, once you complete the fight the passage back to the goblins closes, no more rest spam for you. There's a campfire with 1 whole use on it in the big room.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Did you restart the game, pick your characters again and try? ( without creating them again, just pick from the menu )

That's what I tried two dozen times or more.

You need to create them, leave the game, launch it again and then only assemble the party.

Except when I do this I wind up with only 4 characters.

 

[Ontopoly]

What the fuck is this game? Pierre is a psychopath bitch. Wonder how many times I'll restart this game before I just turn on easy mode for the whole game.

 

[Tweed]

Easy mode won't help, damage reductions and increases can't save you from the kind of crap that gets thrown at you and you lose 20% xp. Everything you fight is almost always outleveled with superior gear and magic.

 

[Rpguy]

So why is psionic a must? what is your party?

 

[Rpguy]

Did you restart the game, pick your characters again and try? ( without creating them again, just pick from the menu )

That's what I tried two dozen times or more.

You need to create them, leave the game, launch it again and then only assemble the party.

Except when I do this I wind up with only 4 characters.

Where is your game installed? do you run it as admin? did you try picking up 6 premade characters and see with how many you end up?

 

[Tweed]

So why is psionic a must?

The only power than can clear that room before they summon the demon is the 9th level tornado blast, nothing else does enough damage so get two from the hags downstairs. If someone wants to try to complete the fight with the demon summoned they can be my guest. Besides that psions get a huge other range of powers that do crazy amounts of damage, delay or block enemies, and they even have some nice group buffs. Too bad the psychic healing feat is broken right now or mine would be a healer too.

 

[Tweed]

I tried to clear as much of the sewers as possible before needing the campfire, but I think I'm going to have to finally use it, I've used up almost all my spells. Oh, and per usual the warlock girl doesn't have any spell extend feats which are absolutely mandatory for doing effective casting. When you clear the demon room you'll find a magic lamp with a genie that will grant 3 wishes, one gives you an item or 300k gold, one duplicates an item, and the last heals and raises the party from dead with full recovery, saving that for later.

Items are as follows:

+2 Skeletal Sabre one handed sword (Life stealing, keen, swift, barbed, paralysis immunity)
+1 Terror Blade dagger (attack roll bonus, draining, destruction, extended crit range)
+1 King Garamond's greatmace (destruction, swift, valorous, increase strength +4, increase constitution +2)
+3 Jaggolan short sword (attack roll bonus, sickening, swift, collision, disease immunity)
+1 Xanthar bastard sword (blinding, swift, shocking, shocking burst, electricity immunity)
+5 Elianthir chainmail (mithral, bravery, greater bravery, ghost ward, +10 speed)
+5 Infernal full plate (adamantine, acid defense, greater acid defense, disintegration immunity)

I decided to wish for the mace and then had him duplicate it and handed them off to my gladiator, who has oversized two weapon fighting, she destroys everything.

 

[Mortmal]

So why is psionic a must?

The only power than can clear that room before they summon the demon is the 9th level tornado blast, nothing else does enough damage so get two from the hags downstairs. If someone wants to try to complete the fight with the demon summoned they can be my guest. Besides that psions get a huge other range of powers that do crazy amounts of damage, delay or block enemies, and they even have some nice group buffs. Too bad the psychic healing feat is broken right now or mine would be a healer too.

ok so it blocks the passage to the sewers ? means you have to do the hag fight before else you'll never get back ?

 

[Tweed]

No it blocks the passage back to the arena and the goblin camp, you can still access the hags, but that's it.