KickStarter Knights of the Chalice 2 Thread - Augury of Chaos

[Serus]

You don't have to start with two, you can just design characters to get swapped out. So start with a Kobold Red Wiz to swap out for Erz etc...

This is pretty much what I did last playthrough then decided I wanted Ranger over companion Monk this time so started with Warlock to swap with Piz instead of Psi.

First, the whole point of the exercise would be to start as a single character and gather the "team" as you go - as a challenge. The second character is a needed exception required only if you play archmage or find the very early game impossible.
Second, you can't bench or replace your avatar afaik.
Third, there are only 7 companions in the whole game. Technically 8 but if you take the fire druid you end with 6 companions.


I run into a stupid bug. One of my guys is flat footed. Permanently. Outside of combat. The reason "combat has just started" or something like that. EDIT: It resets in the next combat.

 

[Darth Canoli]

I like having the rolls be completely random and then cheating the system anyway

I miss characters rolls like M&M III or ToEE where I can get better stats if I spend 30 minutes to roll a Paladin which needs a lot of attribute points.
"Cheating" the system during character creation feels great and using max attributes, which I don't, is just not the same, it's cheap cheating.

 

[Darth Roxor]

the fucking fire salamander at the end of the moon cyrpt is as preposterously annoying as ever

at least the game threw me a bone at the efreet:

(30% dismissal succeeded on first cast lol)

also was this a thing before??

 

[Serus]

Nice with the 30% cast but honestly his not that hard. A single enemy doesn't pose a great challenge, usually. Unless he goes before your guys and disables most of them in first cast. I don't remember, was he grease + trip -able? A good number of enemies aren't immune to trip, even the otherwise difficult ones.

 

[Darth Roxor]

no, he's obviously not so hard, especially after the sweaty salamander sauna, but i still laffed at the instakill on first action/first try

 

[Desiderius]

Efreet's very Disarm/Grapplable.

Fire Sal I summon an Elemental then keep Turning to heal my guy/damage theirs or re-summon as needed.

 

[Darth Canoli]

His energy wall is annoying, he can kill one wizard/psion or even two if he goes first and put his mind to it but it doesn't go beyond this, once you put you flank him with your fighters from all sides, he's just fucked.
Or a DK aura + some spells are quite effective.

I'm not sure but I think you can trip him as well, even if the chances aren't really high at this stage (or maybe with an already specialized trip fighter)

For the record, the forge cache only contains some cheap loot and an ice storm wand, no magic diamonds.
Overall, it feels like some magic diamonds have been added to the loot here and there or am I just imagining it?

 

[Serus]

His energy wall is annoying, he can kill one wizard/psion or even two if he goes first and put his mind to it but it doesn't go beyond this, once you put you flank him with your fighters from all sides, he's just fucked.
Or a DK aura + some spells are quite effective.

I'm not sure but I think you can trip him as well, even if the chances aren't really high at this stage (or maybe with an already specialized trip fighter)

For the record, the forge cache only contains some cheap loot and an ice storm wand, no magic diamonds.
Overall, it feels like some magic diamonds have been added to the loot here and there or am I just imagining it?

If he can be tripped it should be easy to do once you put grease under his feets. An enemy "balancing" on grease can be tripped automatically iirc. The only problem is the size limit, you can trip maximum 1 size bigger than your tripper. That makes a half-giant the best tripper, not just grappler.

Forge cache? Whats the "forge"? The place with 2 big fire monsters and sweating?

 

[Desiderius]

His energy wall is annoying, he can kill one wizard/psion or even two if he goes first and put his mind to it but it doesn't go beyond this, once you put you flank him with your fighters from all sides, he's just fucked.
Or a DK aura + some spells are quite effective.

I'm not sure but I think you can trip him as well, even if the chances aren't really high at this stage (or maybe with an already specialized trip fighter)

For the record, the forge cache only contains some cheap loot and an ice storm wand, no magic diamonds.
Overall, it feels like some magic diamonds have been added to the loot here and there or am I just imagining it?

If he can be tripped it should be easy to do once you put grease under his feets. An enemy "balancing" on grease can be tripped automatically iirc. The only problem is the size limit, you can trip maximum 1 size bigger than your tripper. That makes a half-giant the best tripper, not just grappler.

Forge cache? Whats the "forge"? The place with 2 big fire monsters and sweating?

Pretty sure cache also has some scrolls? I’ll check tonight.

Balancing is auto Bull Rush, not Trip IIRC. Doesn’t Efreet fly?

 

[Raghar]

Ready vs Spell on the enemy dude who got lucky.

we are not talking about lone enemy caster here... disabling one wizzord won't save your ass.

I still remember on RPGs when wizards were rare.

 

[Desiderius]

Cache has scrolls of Prot Energy (Wiz) and Slow
Five Cure Serious Potions
Wand of Ice Blast (1d6/lvl AoE + fatigue) 5 charges
Gems worth about 6k
1420 or so cash
No diamonds

Search check is 18 DC, Rogue spotted it from four spaces away, Rogue also gets Warrior check on Enchanter difficulty to get across fire to chest. Need Ice (Water Druid has it), Centaur, or Arcana + scroll from cache otherwise or can just take damage.

Against Sal, Rogue cast Grease and moved within one space of Sal range, Bishop summoned Air Elemental + Prayer. Sal got Elemental down to single digits and Rogue (Mantis) 5-foot-stepped and took Sal down in one round. Fire Ele dragged Rogue into Fire Pit and almost killed her. Bishop Turned Ele for 29 dam to end fight (healing Air Ele).

Acrobat from Rogue got out exit with no damage.

Joran Grappled Efreet (62%?) Bard landed Cursed Dirge at 75%

Definitely want to do Crypt before Gobs because it unlocks Grey area so can pick up Erzimon.

 

[Serus]

His energy wall is annoying, he can kill one wizard/psion or even two if he goes first and put his mind to it but it doesn't go beyond this, once you put you flank him with your fighters from all sides, he's just fucked.
Or a DK aura + some spells are quite effective.

I'm not sure but I think you can trip him as well, even if the chances aren't really high at this stage (or maybe with an already specialized trip fighter)

For the record, the forge cache only contains some cheap loot and an ice storm wand, no magic diamonds.
Overall, it feels like some magic diamonds have been added to the loot here and there or am I just imagining it?

If he can be tripped it should be easy to do once you put grease under his feets. An enemy "balancing" on grease can be tripped automatically iirc. The only problem is the size limit, you can trip maximum 1 size bigger than your tripper. That makes a half-giant the best tripper, not just grappler.

Forge cache? Whats the "forge"? The place with 2 big fire monsters and sweating?

Pretty sure cache also has some scrolls? I’ll check tonight.

Balancing is auto Bull Rush, not Trip IIRC. Doesn’t Efreet fly?

If the forge is the place with fire salamander + big fire elemental then i must have missed the wand of ice storms somehow. There are however many medium and and high level scrolls somewhere there, mostly cold related or good for fighting in fire.

This one thing i'm not very enthusiastic about KotC2. Every time a hard battle is ahead, you find whatever is needed moments before. Scrolls, weapons with exactly right enhancements, you name it... Same with scrolls/potions needed for some non-combat tasks. This kills somewhat the idea of preparation. I'd prefer a more open world where, as example, you want to explore a haunted place where, according to rumours, powerful vampires reside. What you do? You go to a shop and BUY yourself the tools against vampires. In KotC2 you are simply given the tools - seconds before you need them. In the Crypt, there are 2 anti-undead weapons in the first two easiest coffins, waiting for you before the other though battles with the undead. This is not incline.

Efreet do fly indeed but this one is somehow relatively easy to trip. How one makes a flying being trip anyway? Doesn't the word imply that you have to be on the ground?

Tripping is automatic when the target is balancing, 100% sure. This makes tripping so easy as long as you can afford to spend an action to cast grease. My favourite tactics in this game. Not only effective but sounds silly amazing if you think about it.

 

[Darth Roxor]

The cache with the wang in the salamander sauna is hidden in a wall south of the entrance, you need a spot check to find it.

I agree that stuff like the exorcist mace in the crypt is cheap, but I don't agree about the scrolls. These are typically scrolls with spells of a higher level than what you have access to at the moment, so it's a legitimate choice to use them immediately against what's coming up, or save them to scribe them when you level up.

 

[Darth Canoli]

This one thing i'm not very enthusiastic about KotC2. Every time a hard battle is ahead, you find whatever is needed moments before. Scrolls, weapons with exactly right enhancements, you name it... Same with scrolls/potions needed for some non-combat tasks. This kills somewhat the idea of preparation. I'd prefer a more open world where, as example, you want to explore a haunted place where, according to rumours, powerful vampires reside. What you do? You go to a shop and BUY yourself the tools against vampires. In KotC2 you are simply given the tools - seconds before you need them. In the Crypt, there are 2 anti-undead weapons in the first two easiest coffins, waiting for you before the other though battles with the undead. This is not incline.

I agree with you on the open world part but which indie dev can afford to develop a handcrafted open world RPG?
Even a team of Veterans like Iron Towers don't go full open world. In before VD corrects me but I think Colony Ship is gated (Vault Dweller )

As for the scrolls, It's a choice, you can either use them or save them to learn more spells later.
It's a real choice for some useful spells as spell picks on level up are limited and the number of available spells is huge.

 

[Butter]

This one thing i'm not very enthusiastic about KotC2. Every time a hard battle is ahead, you find whatever is needed moments before. Scrolls, weapons with exactly right enhancements, you name it... Same with scrolls/potions needed for some non-combat tasks. This kills somewhat the idea of preparation. I'd prefer a more open world where, as example, you want to explore a haunted place where, according to rumours, powerful vampires reside. What you do? You go to a shop and BUY yourself the tools against vampires. In KotC2 you are simply given the tools - seconds before you need them. In the Crypt, there are 2 anti-undead weapons in the first two easiest coffins, waiting for you before the other though battles with the undead. This is not incline.

I agree with you on the open world part but which indie dev can afford to develop a handcrafted open world RPG?
Even a team of Veterans like Iron Towers don't go full open world. In before VD corrects me but I think Colony Ship is gated (Vault Dweller )

Knights of the Chalice is open world. It just has a steep enough level progression that you can't safely go anywhere you want at any time. It could have been designed for a smaller level range so you'd have more flexibility in what order you do things.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Knights of the Chalice is open world. It just has a steep enough level progression that you can't safely go anywhere you want at any time. It could have been designed for a smaller level range so you'd have more flexibility in what order you do things.

Not really, many locations are gated and you have to go through dungeons in the designed order.

Sure, there is two optional dungeons but it's semi-open world at best.

 

[Serus]

This one thing i'm not very enthusiastic about KotC2. Every time a hard battle is ahead, you find whatever is needed moments before. Scrolls, weapons with exactly right enhancements, you name it... Same with scrolls/potions needed for some non-combat tasks. This kills somewhat the idea of preparation. I'd prefer a more open world where, as example, you want to explore a haunted place where, according to rumours, powerful vampires reside. What you do? You go to a shop and BUY yourself the tools against vampires. In KotC2 you are simply given the tools - seconds before you need them. In the Crypt, there are 2 anti-undead weapons in the first two easiest coffins, waiting for you before the other though battles with the undead. This is not incline.

I agree with you on the open world part but which indie dev can afford to develop a handcrafted open world RPG?
Even a team of Veterans like Iron Towers don't go full open world. In before VD corrects me but I think Colony Ship is gated (Vault Dweller )

As for the scrolls, It's a choice, you can either use them or save them to learn more spells later.
It's a real choice for some useful spells as spell picks on level up are limited and the number of available spells is huge.

It wouldn't require a truly open world, just not as linear. That on the other hand would require either bigger game with slower level progression or less levels to be had. Can't have even a partially non-linear game if every few fights your power levels increase greatly. I really hope that Colony Ship will be better in that regard. Of curse it won't be as good in terms of tactical combat but you can't have everything.

Sure, scrolls give the player a valid choice*, no doubt. The problem is that those spells are given, just like the weapons in the crypt, exactly when and where you need them. It feels cheap. Perhaps it would be better to give the player more treasures/cash and add the ability to buy those spells? It wouldn't feels as cheap as finding very powerful (including level 9!) spells in a random crate, unguarded - seconds before possibly the biggest fight of the game, up to this point, against Pizarra start of Chapter 3. Alternatively put those scrolls in some more logical container and a few fights earlier. This way the player will have at least a "chance" to waste them before they are truly needed and it wouldn't feel as game-y.


*A hoarder and min-maxer in me forces me to keep them. Perhaps if i played on Archmage instead of Enchanter i'd be more inclined to use them.

 

[Reinhardt]

smaller level range

1-3

 

[Darth Canoli]

*A hoarder and min-maxer in me forces me to keep them. Perhaps if i played on Archmage instead of Enchanter i'd be more inclined to use them.

No, dealing with archmage isn't that hard, you learn how to deal with everything and go with ultra specialized builds.

What forces you to use the scrolls is iron man or low caster party.
Because it hurts.

 

[Serus]

smaller level range

1-3

More like 1 to 9 = Hearkenwold as i understand.

 

[Jermu]

No, dealing with archmage isn't that hard, you learn how to deal with everything and go with ultra specialized builds

So just metagame shit out of Chalice 2 with right builds and its not hard? Anyway I would guess that some fights are unwinnable in archmage if you get bad initiative roll but obviously I cannot say this for sure. Minimizing rng is an interesting concept when the game has so many variables.

Currently playing fake ironman with archmage difficulty and the crashes are driving me insane. Think I take a break from chalice haven't seen any posts from Pierre for a while.

 

[Desiderius]

Specialized builds or tight, imaginative play.

He hides "get out of jail free" stuff around where you need it so player is never stuck. First time thru Crypt I got owned by Dragon without ever finding the mace/club, and second time beat the Dragon without needing them. Likewise Crypt seemed like a true Death Trap the first time, but then you figure out what your options are and its manageable. Figuring things out is fun. That's good design.

The cold scrolls are in the chest across the lava river that triggers the snakes which pull you into the lava and throw Produce Flame rays at you from across it.

 

[Serus]

No, dealing with archmage isn't that hard, you learn how to deal with everything and go with ultra specialized builds

So just metagame shit out of Chalice 2 with right builds and its not hard? Anyway I would guess that some fights are unwinnable in archmage if you get bad initiative roll but obviously I cannot say this for sure. Minimizing rng is an interesting concept when the game has so many variables.

Currently playing fake ironman with archmage difficulty and the crashes are driving me insane. Think I take a break from chalice haven't seen any posts from Pierre for a while.

For me the game stopped crashing with the version 1.35. Which one are you using?

 

[Jermu]

1.35 steam

 

[anvi]

What's the difference between a party of 7 and a party of 8 in terms of late game spells and stuff? Or party of 6?