KickStarter Knights of the Chalice 2 Thread - Augury of Chaos

[Mauman]

Initiative is the most important thing in this game.

That's generally true of all RPGs though not always well-understood. Which is why D:OSII forced turn-taking regardless of initiative.

That said Darth Canoli is right. You might be surprised how viable rezzing from the Pal is (even as a planned strategy!) compared to reload upon any death.

I've always been of mixed mind on DOS2's take on that.

It just resulted in a different form of minmaxing.

 

[rojay]

I did not play D:OS2 and so have no idea what either of you are talking about. I put about 4 or 5 hours into the first one and that was enough to convince me I had better things to do.

Initiative is always important in turn based games, but I do not know of a game where it is as important to so many encounters as Augury of Chaos. Dexterity is important for almost all characters and if you don't take initiative feats on (at the very least) casters you are a masochist.

 

[Desiderius]

I did not play D:OS2 and so have no idea what either of you are talking about. I put about 4 or 5 hours into the first one and that was enough to convince me I had better things to do.

Initiative is always important in turn based games, but I do not know of a game where it is as important to so many encounters as Augury of Chaos. Dexterity is important for almost all characters and if you don't take initiative feats on (at the very least) casters you are a masochist.

That’s not the case. You haven’t discovered the power of tactically dying yet. There are many ways to attack the game, tho focusing on initiative is probably one of the most straightforward.

Initiative isn’t just important in turn-based games. If anything it may be more important in RTwP since it determines whether you can interrupt enemy actions.

DOSII degenerates into a game of stunlock tag even with the turn-taking due to the holes in the armor system and the power of the stuns, but there are a variety of ways to do that too so not sure what it has to do with min-maxxing.

That’s more of a MMO damage race thing.

 

[rojay]

What's not the case?

In what scenario is it better to "tactically die" than to win initiative?

 

[Desiderius]

What's not the case?

In what scenario is it better to "tactically die" than to win initiative?

Trade-offs for everything. Feats spent on initiative are Feats not spent on what your class is good at, same with points on DEX. Plenty of ways to heal/rez come back from falling behind in a fight and sometimes dying can cure you of nasty conditions and the like.

Likewise covering all your dialogue options can save you from a lot of situations where you'd otherwise want to win initiative, but one of the reasons to bring a Pal is to live long enough to bring back everyone else when things go wrong (and to protect them from things that would kill them in the first place). Don't need initiative for always on auras.

 

[rojay]

If you're spending spell slots on resurrecting dead characters, you're not using those spell slots to kill the enemies before they kill your characters. Initiative is not the only important thing in this game, it's just the most important thing.

 

[Darth Canoli]

If you're spending spell slots on resurrecting dead characters, you're not using those spell slots to kill the enemies before they kill your characters. Initiative is not the only important thing in this game, it's just the most important thing.

The fact is, on the highest difficulty and without tampering with enemy's initiative, even with initiative builds and equipment, sometimes, you get surprised, you pick an option to get more xp and a harder fight and/or there's some long fights (Ch3 Pizarra, Xadriphar, Death Snare, Spider Queen, Ch4 inside the castle, etc)

When this time comes and you get terrible initiative rolls, either you're a fag and you reload, you're a fag and you reload after you get some character killed or you take it like a man and use heal and resurrection.

You'd be surprised how using TR + heal in a single turn (accelerated spells) can be extremely powerful because that's one character which doesn't die and can act and another one which comes back from the dead ready to dive into the fray.

There's also a lot of consumables to regain spells slots to use in chapters 3 & 4.
Last but not least, sometimes it's way better to get a multiple debuffed character killed and to resurrect him rather than trying and possibly failing to cure him.

 

[rojay]

I didn't say there aren't exceptions and that there aren't edge cases, but for the majority of encounters you are better off with at least your casters going first.

Initiative is the most important thing in this game.

 

[Darth Canoli]

I didn't say there aren't exceptions and that there aren't edge cases, but for the majority of encounters you are better off with at least your casters going first.

Initiative is the most important thing in this game.

Good for you, you figured it out, that's what people have been talking about for most of the 300 pages of this thread.
And it's also true for most games where initiative is involved.

In the original UFO, for example, it's called reaction, it's so important that you use every trick you have to train it, like controlling aliens, disarming them and giving your soldiers low damage with no ammunition weapons like laser guns, you hide and line them up and wait for the helpless aliens to show up, it's like shooting ducks.

Everyone can nuke the opposition in KotC 2 after winning the initiative rolls, even on Archmage but not everyone can get back from not winning it during tough fights.

 

[rojay]

Thank you for acknowledging it, dude. And I appreciate the advice on the nuances of the game. I am not as knowledgeable as many people in this thread, but I know what I know and I found it odd that anyone would actually disagree with the statement, "initiative is the most important thing in this game."

 

[overtenemy]

bros gnarly game but I have several asspains.

Improved life drain doesn't work. Dice remain d6s.

In chapter 4 my death knight's entire reason for existing, the aura, ceased to work. Could not determine why but didn't bother trying much because the game was easy by this point. This one is pretty critical though so if anyone's had experience with this it'd be worth sharing.

Can't sneak attack on touch spells like in PnP. This would be huge for DK and rogue.

Spells that force concentration DCs from something such as burning say they add to the DC the damage last dealt by the spell. What I've found is this refers to the burning damage and never the initial, meaning if you set somebody on fire with a flaming sphere the first concentration check the caster has to make doesn't get a bonus of any kind because they won't have "burned" yet. This makes those spells a little shitty.

Jorad was still dunked by the blind condition after using porpoise when wearing the blindfold helmet.

skewer too good but in fairness I don't know how else to make fitan dudes competitive, feels bad.

Other bugs too, can't remember. Should've written them down.

Oh and I took all four emperor/maximize feats on red wiz thinking you'd be able to simultaneously use both but you can't. That was a bummer.

RIGHT I also ended up with two books of the dead. For some reason it didn't remove the one from my inventory when I gave it to the hags and then I got another for defeating them. So I banish Xandriphar and get to the end of the sewers and some demons show up demanding it. If you fork it over you get permanent +2 str and con to a character. I figured what the hell I probably won't need it again.

 

[overtenemy]

Alright Pierre, it seems aura of terror subtracts rather than adds 5 feet to the aura. It won't even affect enemies standing diagonally from you. That is huge.

 

[Fatberg Slim]

Alright Pierre, it seems aura of terror subtracts rather than adds 5 feet to the aura. It won't even affect enemies standing diagonally from you. That is huge.

Which version are you playing? It seems to work for me using the most recent version, although it's very possible the game is showing inaccurate info.

 

[overtenemy]

Steam version 1.44. Since you said it's still working I went and tested it again, and now I find that sometimes even standing directly next to someone won't cause them to be affected. I can't unspec aura of terror on this save because I took it too long ago, but I have alot of saves so I went all the way back and can confirm that it was working properly in chapter 3. I tested at level 9 and then level 17 at the spider queen and I'm getting the 15 feet. Now it gets weirder. I load a save at the very beginning of chapter 4 and go right to the gate. The marilith is not debuffed at 15, but IS at 10. I'm trying to figure out what could be causing it but if I can't I guess I'll get in touch with Pierre and send a save.

Edit: May have found something. Loading that save and leveling from 17 to 18 is now causing the marilith to only be debuffed when the DK is directly adjacent. Happened this way twice in a row. But if this caused by some sort of class feature on levelup fuckup, I don't get why it works from 15 on my chapter 3 level 17 saves. I'll load some more I guess...

Edit: Bros verily I say unto thee that this is fucking weird. I have a save after queen but before leaving sewers, still 17 and able to level. It works at 15 feet staying 17 and is reduced to 10 if I level. Crazy though this may sound it appears going from 17 to 18 reduces the aura by 5, and going from chapter 3 to 4 reduces the aura by 5. If anybody else has a DK game with saves at these points I'd appreciate another confirmation.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Steam version 1.44. Since you said it's still working I went and tested it again, and now I find that sometimes even standing directly next to someone won't cause them to be affected. I can't unspec aura of terror on this save because I took it too long ago, but I have alot of saves so I went all the way back and can confirm that it was working properly in chapter 3. I tested at level 9 and then level 17 at the spider queen and I'm getting the 15 feet. Now it gets weirder. I load a save at the very beginning of chapter 4 and go right to the gate. The marilith is not debuffed at 15, but IS at 10. I'm trying to figure out what could be causing it but if I can't I guess I'll get in touch with Pierre and send a save.

Auras don't work across water like the long 5 feet large pools running in the sewers.
Same if you are in the pool and your target isn't or vice versa.
Height difference might also affect the auras.

 

[Arthandas]

300 pages and no Codex review? What am I not paying you for?!

 

[Pink Eye]

300 pages and no Codex review? What am I not paying you for?!

What are you on? Darth Roxor Wrote a review for it.

 

[Darth Roxor]

(((someone))) has demoted it to a preview but frankly most of my main points of criticism from that article still stand post-release

 

[ERYFKRAD]

(((someone))) has demoted it to a preview but frankly most of my main points of criticism from that article still stand post-release

No one read it anyway

 

[Pink Eye]

I read it... I also read the RPGWatch review too that was posted. I like reading the different opinions people have on Chalice 2. It's a hardcore turn based game that doesn't pull any punches in kicking you in the stomach, taking your lunch money, then doing it again because fuck you; just as how Pierre envisioned. Probably going to go down as one of the greats if people are willing to look past the graphics.

 

[Darth Canoli]

300 pages and no Codex review? What am I not paying you for?!

What are you on? Darth Roxor Wrote a review for it.

Most players wrote their mini-review, just read the 306 pages.

Also, I think I recall Dorateen writing a real full review.

 

[Dorateen]

Also, I think I recall Dorateen writing a real full review.

Darth Roxor's stands as the authoritative review, I only contributed a passage about the Module Editor. I'll let Hearkenwold serve as a testimony for the potential of what Knights of the Chalice 2 could be capable of.

 

[overtenemy]

poast

Auras don't work across water like the long 5 feet large pools running in the sewers.
Same if you are in the pool and your target isn't or vice versa.
Height difference might also affect the auras.

No water. And like I said in the edits I played the same fights before and after a levelup from 17 to 18. Same exact squares used in the same exact fights. I'm also able to replicate it on different saves (though of the same game.)

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

Has Pierre fixed the prologue so it can be instantly skipped yet? It was better when I didn't have to do it to get to the real campaign.

 

[Jermu]

Has Pierre fixed the prologue so it can be instantly skipped yet? It was better when I didn't have to do it to get to the real campaign.

you can go straight into place that starts prologue final fight but few of those are not skippable (last one is)

Not sure why you would want to skip prologue it is great and has good encounters